Plants are life but don't have consciousness, nor desires. Your thoughts about your error?
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The Believabliltiy of Evolution
- Thread starter rrobs
- Start date
cladking
Well-Known Member
How would they live? Why would a tree grow in a rocky crack on a mountain side for no reason?
You ignored the evidence I cited to show yew trees are conscious and tree roots. Almost every single bit of evidence and logic I cite are all ignored.
This is really very very simple. Life is consciousness and experience. It is the will to thrive and to do this every individual and "species" must learn and adapt. Those which fail will not have their genes represented.
All individuals are fit. Some individuals are unlucky or unable to adapt. Some individuals will perish before they learn.
Some humans are very slow learners but this hardly affects other species.
Only humans possess complex language so each individual for 40,000 years stood on the shoulders of giants. And now we can do it again.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
There is a reason. You do not seem to be able to see it.
And you still do not know what evidence is. This is a scientific discussion. You need scientific evidence if you want to claim any.
They DO live. Ever eat vegetables? Those are plants, and they have no consciousness or desires.
Because a seed landed in the crack and gets adequate moisture to grow. Simple.
Plants aren't conscious. They have no brains. What evidence could you have that botanists don't? None.
No, living brains have consciousness. Organisms without brains, or some sort of neural network, don't have consciousness.
You don't know science.
Well, you might be correct to say if offspring is born that is has a shot at survival. But it being fit depends on the environment during its reproductive life. If there is little food in a region with a lot of organisms that are starving, then the environment is too harsh for most of them to survive. There may be traits some have that allows them to access the limited food, and those traits will be selected by nature. So all are not fit ultimately. See your error?
Don't feel bad about it.
Many other animals communicate. Try not to be too arrogant, you don't understand science, after all.
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Flies do not make inverted landings because they have concentrated genes. Concentrated genes isn't even a thing.
All living things are not equally fit.
The claim that all living things are equally fit is nonsense and reveals an utter misunderstanding of biology.
Cockroaches cannot survive a nuclear blast.
All living things are not equally fit.
The claim that all living things are equally fit is nonsense and reveals an utter misunderstanding of biology.
Cockroaches cannot survive a nuclear blast.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
Isn't it precious that this fellow seems to think that if he dreams something up and writes a sentence about it that he is "citing evidence"...???
Here is a list of the evidence "cited" re: trees:
The Believabliltiy of Evolution
"This is why humans share so many traits (genes) with oak trees; we both evolved for billions of years from the same sources. We both had highly complex genes before we ever got to earth."
No links or citations for any sort of actual support for his assertions.
The Believabliltiy of Evolution
"The "driver" is consciousness and behavior and running into the tree was a result of Look and See Science."
No links or citations for any sort of actual support for his assertions.
The Believabliltiy of Evolution
"I think we don't go nearly far enough in projecting a common ancestry. In light of the fact that oak trees and apes share so much genetic material and huge amounts of it have no known function is seems probable that life on earth came from outside of earth. "
No links or citations for any sort of actual support for his assertions.
This next one is interesting - it was in response to me asking for a citation for one of the kooky claims:
The Believabliltiy of Evolution
"Everything in existence had to come from things that already existed. Yet we still ponder whether an egg or a chicken came first. We can't see the forest for the trees and can't really understand the trees because all life is consciousness which is fundamental to its understanding. So instead of seeing experimental results and observation we see our beliefs."
No links or citations for any sort of actual support for his assertions.
The Believabliltiy of Evolution
"I believe all life is conscious. This being said I also believe that many life form and individuals have a highly limited consciousness. Tree roots, for instance change directions before hitting obstructions and bacteria are known to act in concert. In many species "consciousness" is little more than a weak will to thrive and survive. Yew trees tend to release their pollen not when most violently shaken but rather when wind velocity is most erratic. This would tend to spread the pollen over a wider area and assure much lower velocity of the pollen when it gets to the intended target."
No links or citations for any sort of actual support for his assertions.
So yes, this guy does not even know what a citation is, or what 'citing' something means in science. He actually thinks that him merely asserting something is evidence.
Egomaniac? Or just a nitwit? Or.. yes?
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tas8831
Well-Known Member
Concentrated genes are the BEST kind!
I start the morning with a heaping bowl of McClintock's Concentrated Genes to give me jump on the day.
Peter Stanley
Member
I guess I am not suppose to believe what God has put in front of me he must be a deceiver - earth history shows us dinosaurs walked the earth for 100s of million years. All my geology classes must be a lie.We know all elements have to be created in stars or in the explosion of stars - all evidence says its not how it happened. God gave man intelligence to understand his environment and knew we would try to understand how it all came into being which we are still searching for. Why would he try to deceive man by planting this evidence. Why couldn't it happen as we understand it?
The devil didn't do it he's not a god and does not create. God is the creator of all.
Also how can a clear picture of Genesis be seen - after a few hundred years everyone died in the flood - the story had to of come from Noah and then hundreds of years later Moses wrote it and its an exact description?
The devil didn't do it he's not a god and does not create. God is the creator of all.
Also how can a clear picture of Genesis be seen - after a few hundred years everyone died in the flood - the story had to of come from Noah and then hundreds of years later Moses wrote it and its an exact description?
Peter Stanley
Member
Christianity is not a label its a belief and the Mormon Theology is completely different they do not believe the same things I don't see how hard that is to understand.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
No evidence for any of that, I see.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Very much my view. We can use our intelligence to understand creation and that tells us how we must understand early scripture.
What always baffles me about biblical literalists is on what basis they claim every word of the bible must be taken literally. Where do they get that idea from? After all, it's not in the bible.
And, even if it were, that would be circular reasoning!
Why do you think that story came from a man called Noah?
I have a different idea for the source of the flood story. The first thing to note is that it depicts a hapless, cruel, and not so bright deity. Why would such a story be there? This deity, who we are told elsewhere is perfect, is now described as having failed to create the kind of creature it wanted, regretted it, attempted to correct it not by supernaturally reprogramming the human population, but by drowning almost all terrestrial life, and then repopulated the earth using the same defective breeding stock. Why show such an intellectually and morally flawed god?
My guess is because they discovered marine fossils in the tops of the highest mountains. Consider how that would impact a primitive culture unaware of seafloor rising or geological time. What myth would arise to explain this? Obviously, the earth was once completely under water. Why would a good God do that? How would He do that? Rain, of course - lots of it. Never mind where the water came from or went to. Not an obstacle for God. Obviously, this would drown all terrestrial life, but there is still life, so God must have preserved some of these animals. Not an obstacle. He told Noah to build an ark and collect the animals. Never mind that some of these animals are thousands of miles away, or that reproducing the ark (Ken Ham's Ark Encounter tourist attraction) as described took millions of dollars, thousands of men, hundreds of truckloads of timber brought to the build site, cranes, and metal fasteners (bolts, hinges).
Why would a good and just God do this? The people needed to speculate on a plausible reason. Man must have deserved it. Why? Sin, of course.
If the mountain have seashells, and only acts of a morally perfect and omnipotent God could explain that, what other story is possible for people with no understanding of natural history, people who believed the earth was flat and stationary, and that the rain was water leaking through holes in a vault above?
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gnostic
The Lost One
Except that there were no Noah and no flood about a thousand years before Moses, since there are no evidence of such destruction.
Plus there are also no evidence that Moses himself ever existed, and no biblical texts existing in the 15th century BCE. Genesis and Exodus don’t exist before the 6th century BCE.
The only real literary evidence in the Bible, is small passage of couple verses, inscribed on small silver amulet, known as the Silver Scrolls.
This amulet was found in a cave called Ketef Hinnom, along with other objects, dated between 630 and 590 BCE...so this object was put in this cave around King Josiah’s reign and just before Jerusalem have fallen to Nebuchadnezzar’s army in 587 or 586 BCE.
The Silver Scrolls is the object found that match passage in Numbers 6, concerning the Priestly Blessing. There are no literary object older than the Silver Scrolls.
You won’t find Genesis written anywhere before the 6th century BCE. This tell me that Moses didn’t write anything, because there was no Moses, who supposedly left Rameses with his people about 1447 BCE, based on what 1 Kings 6:1 say, that exodus began 480 years before Solomon began building the temple.
There are also many things in Genesis, that are historically incorrect, especially Genesis 10 - the Table of Nations chapter.
We know from historical records and more importantly, from archaeological evidence that cities and nations didn’t just pop into existence after the imaginary and nonexistent flood, particularly in Egypt and the cities mentioned in Babylonia (Shinar) and Assyria in connection to Nimrod, another mythological person who don’t exist.
If you were to calculate the numbers of years in Genesis, in Exodus 12:40-41 and in 1 Kings 6:1, you would get a rough date that Genesis Flood would have occurred around 2340 BCE.
Genesis 10 say these cities in Mesopotamia and Egypt don’t exist prior to flood, don’t exist prior to 2340 BCE.
But then there are Egyptian pyramids predating 2340 BCE, in Saqqara, Dalshur and Giza. The oldest pyramid is the step pyramid constructed during the reign of Djoser (c 2686 - c 2649 BCE), from the early 27th century BCE (3rd dynasty), and the Great Pyramid was constructed about a century later during Khufu’s reign (2589 - 2566 BCE, second king in the 4th dynasty).
Other cities with Egyptian culture have also predated this imaginary flood of Genesis.
Ur, Uruk (Erech), Nineveh and Assur, all predated the Bronze Age. Uruk itself was the largest city in the world, throughout the 4th millennium BCE, that archaeologists named the period after Uruk, hence “Uruk period”, 3800 - 3100 BCE.
All this tell us, the people who wrote Genesis, didn’t know much about the history of these cities and kingdoms.
I find it funny how nothing in Genesis and Exodus could named a single Egyptian king, that was contemporary to Abraham, to Jacob and Joseph, to Moses.
The absence of names of Egyptian monarchs in Genesis and Exodus, tell us that whoever wrote Genesis and Exodus, don’t know anything about Egyptian history. Funny how the king who gave Joseph power to rule in his “name” during famine, was completely nameless.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Men building the topic.
Men applying measures themselves real. Proven by men building.
Men claiming God did it or advised by God to do it.
Scientists. Theists men using measures.
A topic.
We do a ... I can review to a group man agreement. Humans. Men of science why did you agree that God told you how to build science as conditions imposing measures?
The answer in modern life I heard God of man old man life recordings speaking to me. The brother him he his scientist voice.
So you take another review.
First earth origin first human designer first want of science and all life destroyed on earth first. Based on archaeological evidence artefacts human and machine parts found fixed fused instant cooling. Inside earths mass.
Human memories science the satanist sent human life burning into gods O earth opened hell. Carpenter tectonic built cause. Recorded humans screaming.
Carpenter builder of wood. Related to life owning oxygen generation science didn't. A living atmosphere is not a science atmosphere the warning.
Water just water has oxygen too. The warning teaching.
To tell human truth for humans as humans. Man the designer of science was the designer of life's destruction.
No God told him. First visionary recording the state reacted told him. As it had been recorded. The state of God historic cosmic vi Sion.
Vision owns living recorded dead things or recorded light or recorded dark recorded. Vision taught man with no speaking voice.
Man first talked to his brothers. Science inventors in person origin man. Agreed.
Built pyramid technique tried to time shift gods earth mass killed us all.
Story taught again by cooling replaced cloud image records man as Satan advice. Satan man clouds was not in origin earths heaven state. Memory of Atlantis was sAtanlit crystal mass only.
Cooling after the fact owned encoded visionary memory pyramid technique destroyed in earth life UFO attack.
Gods Satan angel memory. So new modern science after the ice age was advised by Satan angel. Recorded advice.
In vision no harm is felt as advice.
No death is seen as the records had cooled. The death scene removed.
Otherwise new human life would not exist. Death visions emerged again in Moses pyramid attack. So we get warned before as life re inherits destruction.
Why prophets and visionaries are depicted as warnings.
No ark anywhere in the origin science details.
Flooding of earth life was when man rebuilt science pyramid by phi schematics.
Unless all of earths creatures could walk on water he could not in any circumstance have gained two of every species. On earth.
No matter how much I believe is said....as you build a wooden ark to claim...see men can build a wooden ark. The proof is men can build a wooden ark by applying measures as design.
Proving men imposed design in person is what you really were teaching.
Hence no man is God.
The pyramids were not God changed O earths natural body in pressure changes.
As the pyramids were given a pressurized casement that blew off.
The measure of God the destroyer came as a destroyed old machine out of earth as just a destroyed design with its anti designer a demon. Radiating mass.
Based on the man theism that took design machine out of God the earth's body himself.
UFO ark attacked every living creature and placed its abduction into cloud image.
Modern life ground nature animal human life phenomena attacked. The same evidence.
The spirit of our bio life is holy ground water was abducted. First by the arising demon out of strata ..
Demonstration and As the radiation mass was being unnaturally released from God ground.
Water cooled radiation until earths vacuum sucked it out.
As earths voiding vacuum no longer functioned in balances the ark hit ararat instead instead of voiding...after it had burnt blackened scorched mt Sinai face.
Moses event to mountain mass melting stone. Philosophers science pyramid was gold product.
Covering it in a veiled cloud accumulation so it then rained over the attacked mountains of the world for forty days.
You can in fact on some mountains see the fallen angel of cloud mass image etched into the mountains stone. Mountain facure laying disintegrated at its feet.
Seen by human witness as we live below mountains. Saw the images boarding leaving life. Same as you can today see animal images in clouds. Part of the advice image is seen in clouds when life is sacrificed.
The teaching of relativity why. As man on the cross is seen in clouds.
Water pressure owns first earth sealed history was known.
Water evaporation allowed new mountains to arise when pressure was changed. As ancient historic evidence. Why shells are found on mountains as they once were flat earth water flooded.
Earths first history.
After all life was destroyed ice and water and vacuum sealed earth from man's ark UFO attack. Ice however was in time transition and did not manifest until earth cooled.
Why dinosaurs were wiped out.
Wood in the teaching said the tree of life nature's owned oxygenated life holiness also was burnt sacrificed by man's science stone ark building pyramid technology.
Tree bush burnt. Wood changed in nature human life was sacrificed as woods oxygenation was taken from life. Confess of Sion man had built the causes.
Machines don't live don't own our oxygen.
A scientific teaching by humans for humans relating to human science chosen that stated you were told you were wrong as irradiated life changed behaviour was a witness.
First warnings.
The activated heavens flooding of gods spirits gas is a new saviour of life.
Ice the first saviour.
Flooding is advice earths atmosphere is still cooling irradiation of the heavens. Extra gas burning.
Ice melt is living proof the teachings are real and ignored as usual by man's science behaviour. The destruction of life's DNA genesis being witnessed right before your eyes.
ecco
Veteran Member
At least people who disbelieve Genesis (Millions of Christians included) have an understanding of Genesis on which to form an opinion. It is obvious from your above comment (as well as many, many others) that you lack an understanding of evolution.
Have you ever seen your fingernails grow? Does that mean they do not grow? If you are going to be taken seriously, you must be able to ask rational questions.
What you mean to say is: If one does not believe Genesis or the thousands of other origin stories, it seems it would be better to just say, "I don't know how we all got here."
You seem to be unaware that Genesis is not the only creation story.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
The saviour falling star asteroid.
In cosmic law space first the sun asteroid owned ice. Highest saviour instant snap freeze.
Ice saved stone taught the cosmic theme by law of zero O space.
Why maths never owned holy zero cosmic the teaching.
Earth not ice owner was larger mass than an asteroid so it's origin coldest earth fused state Atlantis....crystal facure.
Also taught
The sun introduced two evil law conditions by radiation mass. Earth body melt and fusion into dusts as separated God states.
Also taught.
Hence do not theory earth gods body by naming it or else human DNA genesis will be eradicated. As life reviewed by book writing science of man status.
Only humans write books.
I know.
Why.
Because man of science caused it.
To know. Lived owned the experience to state my less son was human experienced. To know...to be taught.
Teaching in life as a human. God by status earth and heavens taught me science by machine is wrong and evil.
In cosmic law space first the sun asteroid owned ice. Highest saviour instant snap freeze.
Ice saved stone taught the cosmic theme by law of zero O space.
Why maths never owned holy zero cosmic the teaching.
Earth not ice owner was larger mass than an asteroid so it's origin coldest earth fused state Atlantis....crystal facure.
Also taught
The sun introduced two evil law conditions by radiation mass. Earth body melt and fusion into dusts as separated God states.
Also taught.
Hence do not theory earth gods body by naming it or else human DNA genesis will be eradicated. As life reviewed by book writing science of man status.
Only humans write books.
I know.
Why.
Because man of science caused it.
To know. Lived owned the experience to state my less son was human experienced. To know...to be taught.
Teaching in life as a human. God by status earth and heavens taught me science by machine is wrong and evil.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
It is amazing to me how proud religious zealots are of their spectacular ignorance.