The benefit to believers in Eph 2:8 !

[dan p]

Hi to all , and this Op will rage on through all time , until the Departure/Rapture , and this is OSAS .

This is just one of many proof of OSAS !!

Eph 2:8 reads , For by grace you are Having Been Saved through faith , and it is the Gift of God .

#1 , Having Been Saved , is in the Greek Perfect tense , passive voice and a Participle .

#2 , The Greek word SOZO/SAVED , means Past Action which points to the past action of when you were saved ,

#3 , The other part of the Perfect tense is the Continuing part and is always in the Present tense and continues to your death or Rapture .

#4 , The Passive voice means that God did the saving and NOT you !!

#5 , The Participle , is why the translation is , " having been saved " !!

This then means OSAS , forever , dan p

 

[Youtellme]

Hi to all , and this Op will rage on through all time , until the Departure/Rapture , and this is OSAS .

This is just one of many proof of OSAS !!

Eph 2:8 reads , For by grace you are Having Been Saved through faith , and it is the Gift of God .

#1 , Having Been Saved , is in the Greek Perfect tense , passive voice and a Participle .

#2 , The Greek word SOZO/SAVED , means Past Action which points to the past action of when you were saved ,

#3 , The other part of the Perfect tense is the Continuing part and is always in the Present tense and continues to your death or Rapture .

#4 , The Passive voice means that God did the saving and NOT you !!

#5 , The Participle , is why the translation is , " having been saved " !!

This then means OSAS , forever , dan p

New International Version (©1984)
Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land, you who do what he commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be sheltered on the day of the LORD's anger.

So, if you live a good life and do all the things God wants you to do, according to this scripture there is no guarantee that you will be saved.

 

[dan p]

New International Version (©1984)
Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land, you who do what he commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be sheltered on the day of the LORD's anger.

So, if you live a good life and do all the things God wants you to do, according to this scripture there is no guarantee that you will be saved.

HI , and how is what you wrote linked to Eph 2:8 ??

dan p

 

[james2ko]

Hi to all , and this Op will rage on through all time , until the Departure/Rapture , and this is OSAS .

This is just one of many proof of OSAS !!

Eph 2:8 reads , For by grace you are Having Been Saved through faith , and it is the Gift of God .

#1 , Having Been Saved , is in the Greek Perfect tense , passive voice and a Participle .

#2 , The Greek word SOZO/SAVED , means Past Action which points to the past action of when you were saved ,

#3 , The other part of the Perfect tense is the Continuing part and is always in the Present tense and continues to your death or Rapture .

#4 , The Passive voice means that God did the saving and NOT you !!

#5 , The Participle , is why the translation is , " having been saved " !!

This then means OSAS , forever , dan p

Interesting.... Can you please explain where the unpardonable sin fits in to the once saved always saved doctrine (OSAS)?

 

[dan p]

Interesting.... Can you please explain where the unpardonable sin fits in to the once saved always saved doctrine (OSAS)?

Hi , and that happened only once when the Jews said that Jesus had an Unclean Spirit !!

This did only happen ONE TIME , and that was in Jesus earthly ministry and can never happen again !!

What do you think of 1 Cor 11:3 ?

dan p

 

[james2ko]

Hi , and that happened only once when the Jews said that Jesus had an Unclean Spirit !!

This did only happen ONE TIME , and that was in Jesus earthly ministry and can never happen again !!

I'm not so sure about that:

Mat 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. ​

In the three gospels where this account appears, the verb "forgiven" is in the future, passive, indicative meaning the sin "will" be committed and not be forgiven, at any time in this age and in the one to come! If it was supposed to occur at one specific point in time (during Christ's ministry) as you claim, it would have to be in the aorist, indicative!

What do you think of 1 Cor 11:3 ?

What about it?

 

[jtartar]

Hi to all , and this Op will rage on through all time , until the Departure/Rapture , and this is OSAS .

This is just one of many proof of OSAS !!

Eph 2:8 reads , For by grace you are Having Been Saved through faith , and it is the Gift of God .

#1 , Having Been Saved , is in the Greek Perfect tense , passive voice and a Participle .

#2 , The Greek word SOZO/SAVED , means Past Action which points to the past action of when you were saved ,

#3 , The other part of the Perfect tense is the Continuing part and is always in the Present tense and continues to your death or Rapture .

#4 , The Passive voice means that God did the saving and NOT you !!

#5 , The Participle , is why the translation is , " having been saved " !!

This then means OSAS , forever , dan p

dan p,
It seems that you believe in Monergism, which means that you believe that you have not power over whether you will be saved or not, but when saved, saved forever, no matter how you live your life. Satan would be very happy if all people believed that!!
The bible seems to indicate that it takes both us and the Holy Spirit working together in order for us to get in that saved condition, called a Promerit condition, Synergism or Monergism. Exactly what does the Bible indicate??
Consider first what Paul wrote to the Philippians, at Phil 2:12. Paul said they should work out their own salvation. This indicates that they have a had in their own salvation.
It is very pointed they way James explains about faith, which is necessary for salvation, James 2:14-18 shows that faith without works is dead, then verses 20-22 point out that Abraham's faith worked along with his works and this perfected his faith. Remember, faith without works is dead, and cannot save you.
Even though a person cannot EARN his salvation, he must have some works to show his faith and love, Eph 2:8-10, Rom 2:6-11, Gal 6:7-10, Rev 22:12.
Now, does the Bible teach that once you are saved you are laways saved??
Consider the Nation of Israel. God saved them through the Red Sea, but killed many after that because of disloyalty, 1Cor 10:1-11. Notice particularly verse 11, which says these things are a warning on US, on whom the ends of the systems arrive.
Consider also 1Tim 1:19,20, where some experienced shipwreck of their faith.
Jesus said that a person must endure to the end to be saved, Matt 24:13.
Consider Col 1:21-23, where it says thst they were once enemies of God, but that they were now holy and without blemish, IF YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, firm and unmoved from the hope held out in the Gospel.
Notice especially 2Cor 13:5, where the idea is to keep testing whether you are in the faith.
Have you ever noticed that in Malachi 3:6, it says that God does not change. How God thinks about things has not changed.
Consider Eze chapter 3:17-21, 18:24, 33:13.
Remember that the Israelites were all in a covenant relationship with God, a saved condition, 1Cor 10:1-5.

 

[Green Kepi]

God does not dwell in His children, no matter what! Too many Scriptures state otherwise! You can fall away. Just a few: John 6:66 - shows some of His disciples, "Turned back and no longer followed Him". Matthew 13:39 - is talking about the 'once saved'. 1 Cor. 9:27 - Paul is concerned about his own self becoming unsaved/falling away. Matthew 8:11-12 - should cause us all concern. In 2 Timothy 4:9-10 - was not Demas once saved...sure appears he fell away into the class of the unsaved? Just one more...(there's more)...2 Peter 2:20 - SURE LOOKS LIKE...this "OSAS" is a false teaching!!!

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I find it weird how the Bible supports both the "once saved, always saved" idea, and the idea that one can lose their salvation. I also find it weird how the Bible supports both the idea that salvation is a one time event, and it's an ongoing process. Weird.

 

[Green Kepi]

I find it weird how the Bible supports both the "once saved, always saved" idea, and the idea that one can lose their salvation. I also find it weird how the Bible supports both the idea that salvation is a one time event, and it's an ongoing process. Weird.

It doesn't. Although, to be fair, it does say that God will never turn His back on a 'once' saved person...it does say though, the person is responsible; and if sincere and continues trying, not rejecting the Holy Spirit...that person, God will not reject.

However, that is a far cry from this teaching of 'once saved, always save'...can't ever 'fall away". Those verses I mentioned in my earlier posts, are not just "blowing smoke into the wind"!

Salvation is an ongoing process...(at one time you "become" and then the rest of the time...one keeps on keeping on)...it is an on-going relationship between God and the person....

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

It doesn't. Although, to be fair, it does say that God will never turn His back on a 'once' saved person...it does say though, the person is responsible; and if sincere and continues trying, not rejecting the Holy Spirit...that person, God will not reject.

However, that is a far cry from this teaching of 'once saved, always save'...can't ever 'fall away". Those verses I mentioned in my earlier posts, are not just "blowing smoke into the wind"!

Salvation is an ongoing process...(at one time you "become" and then the rest of the time...one keeps on keeping on)...it is an on-going relationship between God and the person....

That's kind of my point. Hebrews chapter 6 clearly contradicts the once saved, always saved position. And yet Paul contradicted that passage. This also brings into play exactly what salvation is, how it happens, when it happens, and there's no clear consensus in the Bible about any of this. It will say one thing in one spot, and anther thing in another. Take for instance, Paul says that anyone that confesses Jesus as Lord will be saved. Jesus said that not everyone who does so will be saved. In Romans, Paul says that if one confesses with their mouth, and believes in their heart, but the Greek tense of the verbs confess and believe indicate a continual, which contradicts the idea that one is saved when they confess. There's no end to the confusion.

 

[Green Kepi]

No...not really. The Lord is not the author of confusion...preachers/versions are.

Paul is just saying in Hebrews v6 - that these are not those who fall away and still have "a little" faith left...he's saying these here will not be brought back (they've lost all faith). He's telling the Hebrews they may become like this. (gotta go to work...more later...enjoy talking to you!)...

 

[e.r.m.]

King James Version (KJV)

Romans 11:22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Once saved always saved is not something the Bible teaches.

The fallacy set forth by many protestants "If a person turns his/her back on God, then he/she was never saved to begin with."-the Bible never teaches this!
The Bible provides assurance of who has been saved-If one has followed the Bible he/she is saved. Their 'original' having been saved is not invalidated by their later unfaithfulness.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

No...not really. The Lord is not the author of confusion...preachers/versions are.

Paul is just saying in Hebrews v6 - that these are not those who fall away and still have "a little" faith left...he's saying these here will not be brought back (they've lost all faith). He's telling the Hebrews they may become like this. (gotta go to work...more later...enjoy talking to you!)...

How do you know you're not confused? I hear this all the time from Protestant Christians, and it's never made any sense to me, that they feel they're "version" of what the Bible says is true, while others' are not, even though both have support from the Bible. That's one of the reasons why I left Christianity. It's 'lord' does seem to be quite confused himself, and throws such confusion onto his followers.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, salvation is an on-going process because as Jesus qualified at Matthew [24v13]
it is the one who endures to the end that is saved.

So, the maybe or perhaps of Zeph. [2v3] is not on God's part, but on our part to meet the conditions to be met of seeking God, seeking his righteousness, seeking meekness.....

So, except for those committing the unforgivable sin [Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6] all the rest can do as God requires at 2nd Peter 3v9 to repent so as not to end up destroyed or perish.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Yes, salvation is an on-going process because as Jesus qualified at Matthew [24v13]
it is the one who endures to the end that is saved.

So, the maybe or perhaps of Zeph. [2v3] is not on God's part, but on our part to meet the conditions to be met of seeking God, seeking his righteousness, seeking meekness.....

So, except for those committing the unforgivable sin [Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6] all the rest can do as God requires at 2nd Peter 3v9 to repent so as not to end up destroyed or perish.

This is all well and good. But what about those people who say one is saved as soon as they accept Jesus, and that their salvation can never be lost? There are also verses backing up that claim, such as in the Gospel of John, where Jesus says that all that the father has given him are his, and none can be taken from him? That's the issue I'm trying to point out, is that there are different ways of viewing salvation in Christianity, and all sides have passages from the Bible to back up their claims. Does this mean the Bible supports a variety of views? Or that the writers were confused, or possibly adding their own ideas to what they thought was true?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This is all well and good. But what about those people who say one is saved as soon as they accept Jesus, and that their salvation can never be lost? There are also verses backing up that claim, such as in the Gospel of John, where Jesus says that all that the father has given him are his, and none can be taken from him? That's the issue I'm trying to point out, is that there are different ways of viewing salvation in Christianity, and all sides have passages from the Bible to back up their claims. Does this mean the Bible supports a variety of views? Or that the writers were confused, or possibly adding their own ideas to what they thought was true?

No, the writers were not wrong, confused, but it's wolf-like clergy teachings that are wrong and confused. [ Acts 20 vs29,30; 2nd Thess 2vs2-8].
Daniel [12vs4,9] points out how Bible knowledge [education] would be increased the closer we come to the time of the end of all badness on earth before the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth.

If you have John [10vs 28,29] in mind then please notice the words: 'any man' and 'no man'.
In other words, only we ourselves can remove one's self from God's protective hand.
No other person [no man] can pluck or snatch you out of God's hand.
No one [anyone else] can pluck or pry you away from God's hand.
You have to remove yourself. God will not hold you against your will.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

No, the writers were not wrong, confused, but it's wolf-like clergy teachings that are wrong and confused. [ Acts 20 vs29,30; 2nd Thess 2vs2-8].
Daniel [12vs4,9] points out how Bible knowledge [education] would be increased the closer we come to the time of the end of all badness on earth before the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth.

If you have John [10vs 28,29] in mind then please notice the words: 'any man' and 'no man'.
In other words, only we ourselves can remove one's self from God's protective hand.
No other person [no man] can pluck or snatch you out of God's hand.
No one [anyone else] can pluck or pry you away from God's hand.
You have to remove yourself. God will not hold you against your will.

But has "bible knowledge" really increased? There is more confusion today than ever before regarding the Bible, and infinitely more views about it.

 

[Green Kepi]

We must remember that the Bible was written by approximately 40 different authors over a period of around 1500 years. Each writer wrote with a different style, from a different perspective, to a different audience, for a different purpose.


We should expect some differences. However, a difference is not a contradiction. It is only an error if there is absolutely no conceivable way the verses or passages can be reconciled. Even if an answer is not available right now, that does not mean an answer does not exist.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

We must remember that the Bible was written by approximately 40 different authors over a period of around 1500 years. Each writer wrote with a different style, from a different perspective, to a different audience, for a different purpose.


We should expect some differences. However, a difference is not a contradiction. It is only an error if there is absolutely no conceivable way the verses or passages can be reconciled. Even if an answer is not available right now, that does not mean an answer does not exist.

And this is my problem. This way of thinking says the Bible is right, correct, infallible, and inerrant, no matter what. Why? Simply because it says it is? That's circular logic, and is a fallacy. The fact is that there are contradictions in the Bible, which, while Bible scholars do their best to fix, are simply unfixable. And we're just expected to accept their answers without question. I'll admit, a difference does not automatically mean a contradiction. But you can't simply wish the contradictions away. And saying that even if an answer doesn't not now exist, but might in the future, is a cop out. If the Bible is the literal word of God, there should be no questions about it. And accepting the contradictions, in hope that a future generation will be able to explain them, is at best being dishonest with oneself.