The Bible declares that Jesus is God

[Rick B]

XVII.—A Gift is a precious stone in the eyes of him that hath it; whithersoever it turneth, it prospereth. Pro 17:8
The Gift of God Jhn 4:10; 3:16
His Unspeakable Gift 2Cr 9:15
My Beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased Mat 12:18
Mine Elect, in whom my soul delighteth Isa 42:1
The Holy Child Jesus Act 4:27
The Chosen of God Luk 23:35
The Salvation of God Luk 2:30
The Salvation of the daughter of Zion Isa 62:11
The Redeemer Isa 59:20
The Shiloh (Peace-Maker) Gen 49:10
The Consolation of Israel Luk 2:25
The Blessed Psa 77:17
The Most Blessed for ever Psa 21:6
XVIII.—Who was Faithful to Him that appointed him. Hbr 3:2
The Truth Jhn 14:6
The Faithful and True Rev 19:11
A Covenant of the people Isa 42:6
The Testator or Covenanter Hbr 9:16, 17
The Faithful Witness Rev 1:5
The Faithful and True Witness Rev 3:14
A Witness to the People Isa 55:4
The Amen Rev 3:14
XIX.—He that is Holy, he that is True. Rev 3:7
The Just 1Pe 3:18
The Just One Act 7:52
Thine Holy One Act 2:27
The Holy One and the Just Act 3:14
The Holy One of Israel Isa 49:7
The Holy One of God Mar 1:24
Holy, Holy, Holy Isa 6:3; Jhn 12:41
XX.—That in All things he might have the Pre-Eminence. Col 1:18
The Beginning of the Creation of God Rev 3:14
My First-Born Psa 89:27
The First-Born from the dead Col 1:18
The First-Begotten of the dead Rev 1:5
The First-Born among many Brethren Rom 8:29
The First-Fruits of them that slept 1Cr 15:20
The Last Adam 1Cr 15:45
The Resurrection Jhn 11:25
A Quickening Spirit 1Cr 15:45
The Head (even Christ) Eph 4:15
The Head of the Body, the Church Col 1:18
The Head over all things to the Church Eph 1:22
The Head of every Man 1Cr 11:3
The Head of all Principality and Power Col 2:10
XXI.—Gird thy Sword upon thy thigh, O Most Mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty. Psa 45:3
The Captain of the Host of the Lord Jos 5:14
The Captain of Salvation Hbr 2:10
The Author and Finisher of Faith Hbr 12:2
A Leader Isa 55:4
A Commander Isa 55:4
A Ruler Mic 5:2
A Governor Mat 2:6
The Deliverer Rom 11:26
The Lion of the Tribe of Judah Rev 5:5
An Ensign of the People Isa 11:10
The Chiefest among Ten Thousand (in an army) Sgs 5:10
A Polished Shaft Isa 49:2
The Shield Psa 84:9
XXII.—All Power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Mat 28:18
The Lord 1Cr 12:3
One Lord Eph 4:5
God hath made that same Jesus both Lord and Christ Act 2:36
Lord of Lords Rev 17:14
King of Kings Rev 17:14
Lord both of the dead and living Rom 14:9
Lord of the Sabbath Luk 6:5
Lord of Peace 2Th 3:16
Lord of all Act 10:36
Lord over all Rom 10:12
XXIII.—Him hath God Exalted to be a Prince and a Saviour. Act 5:31
The Messiah the Prince Dan 9:25
The Prince of Life Act 3:15
A Prince and a Saviour Act 5:31
The Prince of Peace Isa 9:6
The Prince of Princes Dan 8:25
The Prince of the Kings of the earth Rev 1:5
A Prince (among Israel) Eze 34:24
The Glory of thy people Israel Luk 2:32
He that filleth all in all Eph 1:23
XXIV.—He shall reign for ever and ever. Rev 11:15
The Judge Act 17:31
The Righteous Judge 2Ti 4:8
The King Zec 14:16
The King of Kings Rev 19:16
Lord of Lords Rev 19:16
A Sceptre (out of Israel) Num 24:17
The King's Son Psa 72:1
David their King Jer 30:9
The King of Israel Jhn 1:49
King of the daughter of Zion Jhn 12:15
The King of the Jews (born) Mat 2:2; 15:2
The King of the Jews (crucified) Jhn 19:19
The King of Saints or King of Nations Rev 15:3
King over all the Earth Zec 14:4, 5, 9
The King of Righteousness Hbr 7:2
The King of Peace Hbr 7:2
The King of Glory Psa 24:10
The King in his beauty Isa 33:17
He sitteth King for ever Psa 29:10
Crowned with a Crown of Thorns Jhn 19:2
Crowned with Glory and Honor Hbr 2:9
Crowned with a Crown of Pure Gold Psa 21:3
Crowned with many Crowns Rev 19:12
Allusions, Characteristics and Epithets
As a Refiner's Fire. As Fuller's Soap Mal 3:2
As the Light of the Morning when the sun riseth, a morning without clouds. As the Tender Grass by clear shining after rain 2Sa 23:4
As a Tender Plant (to God). As a Root out of a dry ground (to man) Isa 53:2
As Rain upon the mown grass. As Showers that water the earth Psa 72:6
As Rivers of Water in a dry place. As the Shadow of a great Rock in a weary land. As an Hiding-place from the wind Isa 32:2
As Ointment poured forth Sgs 1:3
Fairer than the Children of Men Psa 45:2
A glorious high Throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary Jer 17:12
For a Glorious Throne to his father's house Isa 22:23
A Crown of Glory and Beauty Isa 28:5
A Stone of Grace Pro 17:8
Nail fastened in a sure place Isa 22:23
A Brother born for adversity Pro 17:17
A Friend that sticketh closer than a brother Pro 18:24
A Friend that loveth at all times Pro 17:17
His Countenance is as the sun Rev 1:16
His Countenance is as Lebanon Sgs 5:15
Yea. He is altogether lovely. This is my beloved and my Friend Sgs 5:16
Consider Him
He was Obedient Phl 2:8
He was Meek, Lowly Mat 11:29
He was Guileless 1Pe 2:22
He was Tempted Hbr 4:15
He was Oppressed Isa 53:7
He was Despised Isa 53:3
He was Rejected Isa 53:3
He was Betrayed Mat 27:3
He was Condemned Mar 14:64
He was Reviled 1Pe 2:23
He was Scourged Jhn 19:1
He was Mocked Mat 27:29
He was Wounded Isa 53:5
He was Bruised Isa 53:5
He was Stricken Isa 53:4
He was Smitten Isa 53:4
He was Crucified Mat 27:35
He was Forsaken Psa 22:1
He is Merciful Hbr 2:17
He is Faithful Hbr 2:17
He is Holy, Harmless Hbr 7:26
He is Undefiled Hbr 7:26
He is Separate Hbr 7:26
He is Perfect Hbr 5:9
He is Glorious Isa 49:5
He is Mighty Isa 63:1
He is Justified 1Ti 3:16
He is Exalted Act 2:33
He is Risen Luk 24:6
He is Glorified Act 3:13
The Lord is my Portion
My Maker, Husband Isa 54:5
My Well-beloved Sgs 1:13
My Saviour 2Pe 3:18
My Hope 1Ti 1:1
My Brother Mar 3:35
My Portion Jer 10:16
My Helper Hbr 13:6
My Physician Jer 8:22
My Healer Luk 9:11
My Refiner Mal 3:3
My Purifier Mal 3:3
My Lord, Master Jhn 13:13
My Servant Luk 12:37
My Example Jhn 13:15
My Teacher Jhn 3:2
My Shepherd Psa 23:1
My Keeper Jhn 17:12
My Feeder Eze 34:23
My Leader Isa 40:11
My Restorer Psa 23:3
My Resting-place Jer 50:6
My Meat (his flesh) Jhn 6:55
My Drink (his blood) Jhn 6:55
My Passover 1Cr 5:7
My Peace Eph 2:14
My Wisdom 1Cr 1:30
My Righteousness 1Cr 1:30
My Sanctification 1Cr 1:30
My Redemption 1Cr 1:30
My All in All Col 3:11

 

[Rick B]

No, I did not make any mistake on this. The Abrahamic Covenant was reinforced and elaborated upon at Sinai with Moses' giving of the Law, which repeats the need for circumcision for boys on the 8th day after birth.

Secondly, the Jeer. and Ez. verses deal with the Abrahamic Covenant that relates to Jews, not Gentiles.

What the author of Hebrews believed and says is not important to me as it is to you. The Covenant and the Law are incumbent for Jews, not Gentiles, and they cannot be ended according to Torah/Tanakh.

But the latter also applies to the followers of the Abrahamic Covenant: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

The Abrahamic Covenant was dualistic, dealing with both physical Israel and the land promises and spiritual Israel which deals with that promise to those who are brought into the New Covenant through the instrument of faith. The Old Covenant was conditional,dependant upon Israel's obedience. The New Covenant is unconditional dependant only upon God's sovereign promise.

To say that "Secondly, the Jeer. and Ez. verses deal with the Abrahamic Covenant that relates to Jews, not Gentiles." totally misses the promise of eternal life "through faith".

Paul, in Galatians, explicitly details the meaning of the Abrahamic Covenant and it's relation to both Israel and the Gentiles:

Gal.3:6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. 10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. 21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

 

[metis]

The Abrahamic Covenant was dualistic, dealing with both physical Israel and the land promises and spiritual Israel which deals with that promise to those who are brought into the New Covenant through the instrument of faith.

Nowhere in Torah or Tanakh is there any such reference to such a differentiation.

The Old Covenant was conditional,dependant upon Israel's obedience.

Only in terms of punishment, whereas the Tanakh says the Covenant is "forever" and "perpetual". If we disobeyed it, we were punished, not abandoned, much like a good parent may punish a child but never abandon it.

To say that "Secondly, the Jeer. and Ez. verses deal with the Abrahamic Covenant that relates to Jews, not Gentiles." totally misses the promise of eternal life "through faith".

The belief in heaven is not directly found in the Tanakh but is hinted at, but even before Jesus' birth it became believed and was taught. The concept that one could only be "saved" by believing and following a person or even a messiah, no matter how good that person or messiah may have been, was never taught in Torah/Tanakh.

IMO, it makes not one iota of sense to believe that a mere p.c. belief in anything would "save" anyone. The Law, as found in Torah, demands moral actions, and for God to supposedly turn around and say that moral actions are no longer important is a bridge too far for me.

 

[metis]

Paul, in Galatians, explicitly details the meaning of the Abrahamic Covenant and it's relation to both Israel and the Gentiles:

Paul's opinion, and that is what it is, doesn't impress me because what he did was to defy what actually is found in Torah. Opinions are like bellybuttons-- everyone has at least one.

 

[Rick B]

Nowhere in Torah or Tanakh is there any such reference to such a differentiation.

Only in terms of punishment, whereas the Tanakh says the Covenant is "forever" and "perpetual". If we disobeyed it, we were punished, not abandoned, much like a good parent may punish a child but never abandon it.

The belief in heaven is not directly found in the Tanakh but is hinted at, but even before Jesus' birth it became believed and was taught. The concept that one could only be "saved" by believing and following a person or even a messiah, no matter how good that person or messiah may have been, was never taught in Torah/Tanakh.

IMO, it makes not one iota of sense to believe that a mere p.c. belief in anything would "save" anyone. The Law, as found in Torah, demands moral actions, and for God to supposedly turn around and say that moral actions are no longer important is a bridge too far for me.

It doesn't appear that you are giving any real thought to what your opinion is regarding what is written in the Old Testament about Abraham and the promises given to him by way of Covenant.

Did you not notice that Paul is quoting those Scriptures? - those very Scriptures which deal directly with the issue at hand? Those Scriptures which you are accepting as unassailable truth are directly refuting your claims.

 

[metis]

It doesn't appear that you are giving any real thought to what your opinion is regarding what is written in the Old Testament about Abraham and the promises given to him by way of Covenant.

Here:
Genesis 17:[7] And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.

Genesis 17:[13] both he that is born in your house and he that is bought with your money, shall be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.

Deuteronomy 7:[9] Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,

Deuteronomy 29:[12] that you may enter into the sworn covenant of the LORD your God, which the LORD your God makes with you this day;
[13] that he may establish you this day as his people, and that he may be your God, as he promised you, and as he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.

Psalms 89:[34] I will not violate my covenant,
or alter the word that went forth from my lips.

salms 105:[8] He is mindful of his covenant for ever, of the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,

Isaiah 44:[21] Remember these things, O Jacob,
and Israel, for you are my servant;
I formed you, you are my servant;
O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.

Isaiah 45:[17] But Israel is saved by the LORD with everlasting salvation;
you shall not be put to shame or confounded to all eternity.

Isaiah 52:[1] Awake, awake,
put on your strength, O Zion;
put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
for there shall no more come into you
the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Isaiah 59:[20] "And he will come to Zion as Redeemer, to those in Jacob who turn from transgression, says the LORD.
[21] "And as for me, this is my covenant with them, says the LORD: my spirit which is upon you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, or out of the mouth of your children, or out of the mouth of your children's children, says the LORD, from this time forth and for evermore."

Isaiah 66:[22] "For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make
shall remain before me, says the LORD;
so shall your descendants and your name remain.

Did you not notice that Paul is quoting those Scriptures? - those very Scriptures which deal directly with the issue at hand? Those Scriptures which you are accepting as unassailable truth are directly refuting your claims.

Maybe check out my "faith statement" at the bottom of the page, along with my "religion" at the top-right. Secondly, anyone can quote scripture but interpretations of said scriptures can vary.

Thirdly, Paul is using a Greek (dualistic) approach that was commonplace in Hellenized areas of eretz Israel, and he ends up using terms and concepts in that style whereas taking them at the literal level would be a mistake. Not recognizing his linguistic approach makes some of his statements as coming off totally absurd in the context of Torah, but recognizing that writing style and then reading his epistles and understanding his use of symbolism and dualisms they make much more sense even if one disagrees with them. From my experience, most Christians today do not understand this. An example is "Jesus died for our sins", if taken literally, really does not make one iota of sense according to Torah, but it can make sense if taken symbolically.

Anyhow, I don't see that this discussion is going anywhere good, so I'll let you have the last word.

Take care.

 

[kjw47]

Don’t put words into mine either. I never claimed you said “every error”.

Here’s what you wrote before:

​

So, can you tell us which Catholics translation you were using? Also how 1914, 1925, and 1940 worked their way into these translations, and why Catholics weren’t telling us about 1914, 1925 and 1940 since it was their translation to begin with?



Over zealousness? Who are you claiming was overzealous?? The Catholics or your Organization???

Please explain who was overzealous, what they were overzealous about, how this over zealousness caused them to err, how long the over zealousness lasted, and the steps your Organization took to make sure it doesn't happen again.




Wasn’t it “Christendom” that told your Organization the earthly governments would not fall in 1914, that there was no truth to 1925, and that Armageddon would not occur in a few months during 1940? Isn't it true that you could have walked into any Catholic or Protestant church with your Watchtower heralding an imminent Armageddon or resurrection and they would have corrected your publication on the spot?

So why are you thanking your Governing Board for “finding” errors? It was the Holy Spirit working through "Christendom" that found the errors, otherwise we would have believed them just like you did. The difference is that it didn't take us months, years or decades to spot the errors. We found them as soon as they came off the printing presses. We pointed them out to you. We underlined them. We circled them. Sometimes we even highlighted them in bold. We told you they were not scriptural. We witnessed to you day after day, year after year yet you continued to believe them.

But you thank the Governing Board for finding errors decades after Christendom pointed them out, and then you thank them for “correcting” these errors when Christendom had already done so long ago. Remember, it wasn’t “Christendom” that believed in a 1925 resurrection, it was you, and if you had knocked on any well armored Christian door claiming 1925 was God’s truth they would have been more than happy to correct you.



I know you don't call them spiritual Fathers, KJW! I want to know why your members treat them like Spiritual Fathers and why they act like Spiritual Fathers!

Hotel staff doesn’t call unmarried couples checking out of their hotel rooms “fornicators” do they? Does that make any of these couples less a fornicator?

Your Organization has Spiritual Fathers KJW, you simply call them the Governing Board, just like the hotel calls its fornicators “guests”. A rose by any other name is still a rose, except there is nothing rosy about the hypocrisy rampant in your Organization. The next time you harp on Catholics for using the term “Father” in regards to its priests please remember you have your own.



Your Organization has already told us no one can understand the bible without their Governing Board. In fact, they refer to the bible as a “closed book”…not in terms of new canon, but in terms of understanding.

Since your Organization claims bible understanding was “closed” before they came along, I don’t see why you or your Organization criticizes Catholics for its “failure” to publish millions of bibles that you claim no one could possibly comprehend or understand.

Also I’m not sure why you consider Daniel 12:4 as a reference or pointer to Watchtower publications. Certainly the “abundant truth” is that 1914 would not see the fall of earthly governments, the ancient worthies rising in 1925, the “curse” of aluminum utensils, that a small nosed man could not have a judicial mind, that Jehovah’s plan for blacks was to make them white, that the generation born 1914 would not taste death, that God lived on the star Alcyone in the constellation Pleiades, that 1940 was only a “few months” before Armageddon, that accepting a kidney transplant was cannibalism, that accepting blood was forbidden, that your spouse’s relations with a beast or same sex partner were not adequate grounds for divorce, that the “two witnesses” in child abuse cases must both be human, that 1975 marked the end of 7,000 years of human existence and Armageddon would follow…the list of goes on and on, with many of your so-called truths still “uncorrected”.

You’ve worked long and hard, door to door, decade after decade zealously distributing literature with one false “truth” after another...so take ownership of your errors KJW. Tell your Organization its not polite nor Christian to blame others for one's own mistakes. It simply makes any defense of your Organization appear all the more incredulous and irrational.



Look, it’s much more likely that you will grow old, play with your grand kids, or even get hit by a truck than to see Armageddon tomorrow. I think your time is better spent living for God now and preparing for your personal Armageddon than distributing an error laden magazine and shouting "Doomsday!" from a soapbox.

Every trinity based translation was translated by Catholicism translating--no originals were left by the time the protestants translated--Catholicism translating remained. They are all error filled. They all teach 2 Gods--a single being God--and a trinity god. Listening to Jesus --one finds truth--his teachings are not altered, God preserved them. Jesus teaches he has a God like we do-his Father--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--- its like pulling teeth asking a Trinitarian to believe Jesus over error dogmas. They outright refuse.
They refuse to believe bible principles when applied to their religions--like Mark 3:24-26--a house divided( 33,000 trinity religionsssssss) will NOT stand--they fail this true mark 100%--1Cor 1:10-- unity of thought-no division.---can trinity scholars understand English?

 

[Rick B]

@me'tis "Maybe check out my "faith statement" at the bottom of the page, along with my "religion" at the top-right. Secondly, anyone can quote scripture but interpretations of said scriptures can vary.

I know very well where you are coming from. What you are oblivious to is that your position is irrational and cannot be logically accepted because of your philosophically eclectic worldview. You cannot assert any metaphysically propositional truth when you have no objective standard of truth. Your claim of the Torah as your final authority is self-refuting because of being "ecumenical/unaffiliated/attend wife's Catholic church." That is condemned in the Torah. When evidence is presented that exposes your claim as a falsehood you just simply dismiss the evidence because you cannot evade it. The Torah says "In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth." Genesis 1:1 Yet what do you say? "My Faith Statement: "Whatever caused this universe I'll call 'God' and pretty much just leave it at that." -- Me'tis" Self-refuting, sel-exposed, glaring inconsistency and inconsistency is the sign of a failed argument. Notice I said you have no objective worldview. You do, however, have a worldview. Everyone does. Your's is subjective - whatever you wish to be the truth. You have demonstrated that in your posts but even more revealingly in your signature: Me'tis. You have clearly demonstrated your being "unaffiliated" - better, opposed to the Christian faith. What you have revealed about yourself is recorded by William Ernest Henley in Invictus:

Out of the night which covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeoning of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

Jesus said: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. John 14:6
He also said: "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am you will die in your sins.” John 8:24
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23[/QUOTE]

 

[Rick B]

BTW @me'tis In your attempt to justify your position you "conveniently" left out very important sentences in your Genesis 17 quotes. Specifically verses:

4 “As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, And you will be the father of a multitude of nations. 5 “No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come forth from you. 7 I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. These "multitude of nations" include, obviously Gentiles.

Romans 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered.
8 “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”
9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.” 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17 (as it is written, “A father of many nations have I made you”) in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist. 18 In hope against hope he believed, so that he might become a father of many nations according to that which had been spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 Without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform. 22 Therefore it was also credited to him as righteousness. 23 Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, 24 but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

Paul, the author of Romans who studied under Gamaliel, understood the TaNaK better than anyone involved in this debate.

Philippians 3:2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

 

[Ben Avraham]

The Bible declares that Jesus is God!

Not the Bible aka the Tanach that Jesus as a Jew was affiliated to. Even the NT does not vindicate categorically that Jesus was God. There is a passage in Mat. 1:18 which contests that Jesus was born of God with Mary but, this quote goes along with the Greek concept of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. Then again, a demigod, not god per se.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Every trinity based translation was translated by Catholicism translating--no originals were left by the time the protestants translated--Catholicism translating remained. They are all error filled. They all teach 2 Gods--a single being God--and a trinity god. Listening to Jesus --one finds truth--his teachings are not altered, God preserved them. Jesus teaches he has a God like we do-his Father--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--- its like pulling teeth asking a Trinitarian to believe Jesus over error dogmas. They outright refuse.
They refuse to believe bible principles when applied to their religions--like Mark 3:24-26--a house divided( 33,000 trinity religionsssssss) will NOT stand--they fail this true mark 100%--1Cor 1:10-- unity of thought-no division.---can trinity scholars understand English?

It's very hard for the deceived to understand that when Jesus spoke of His God and His Father, He was FLESH AND BLOOD, HUMAN! As a human, He emptied Himself of His deity and became just like us, so yes, when Jesus was HUMAN, He had a God and Father in heaven, just like everyone except the rank and file witness!

 

[Rick B]

Every trinity based translation was translated by Catholicism translating--no originals were left by the time the protestants translated--Catholicism translating remained. They are all error filled. They all teach 2 Gods--a single being God--and a trinity god. Listening to Jesus --one finds truth--his teachings are not altered, God preserved them. Jesus teaches he has a God like we do-his Father--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--- its like pulling teeth asking a Trinitarian to believe Jesus over error dogmas. They outright refuse.
They refuse to believe bible principles when applied to their religions--like Mark 3:24-26--a house divided( 33,000 trinity religionsssssss) will NOT stand--they fail this true mark 100%--1Cor 1:10-- unity of thought-no division.---can trinity scholars understand English?

No modern translations come from the original writings. Fortunately the discipline of Textual Criticism has compiled about 5800 ancient manuscripts of the New Testament dating back to around 150 A.D. to which we can compare our current translations and interlinears. Some translations, of course, are better than others and depending on whether the method of Formal or Dynamic Equivalence is followed. I prefer Dynamic Equivalence because it tends to a closer word-for-word translation. Nevertheless, we have access to very reliable translations and Greek scholars, both past and present that verify confidence, that within the canon of the modern-day Biblical texts God has preserved the original writings. BTW this same Greek scholarship rejects the NWT as a mis-translation.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Listening to Jesus --one finds truth--his teachings are not altered, God preserved them.

So true, listening to Jesus, one finds truth. Not one witness listens to, or knows what Jesus actually said. They listen to what their 'slave' says Jesus said and get to read it from a Bible that their 'salve' wrote themselves!

 

[Douglas J.]

Jesus has many names and titles. Both in John and elsewhere.
I.—And Simon Peter Answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Mat 16:16
The Son 1Jo 4:14
The Son of God Jhn 1:34
The Son of the living God Mat 16:16
His only begotten Son Jhn 3:16
The Son of the Father 1Jo 1:3
The only begotten of the Father Jhn 1:14
The only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father Jhn 1:18
The first-born of every creature Col 1:15
His own Son Rom 8:32
A Son given Isa 9:6
One Son (his well-beloved) Mar 12:6
My Son Psa 2:7
His dear Son (or the Son of his love) Col 1:13
The Son of the Highest Luk 1:32
The Son of the Blessed Mar 14:61
Secret Jdg 13:18
Wonderful Isa 9:6
Testimony borne to the Son by the Father, by Jesus Himself, by the Spirit, by Angels, saints, men and devils.
The Father, "My Beloved Son." Mat 17:5
Jesus Himself, "I am the Son of God." Jhn 10:36
The Spirit, "The Son of God." Mar 1:1
Gabriel, "The Son of God." Luk 1:35; 2:11
John Baptist, "This is the Son of God." Jhn 1:34
John, Apostle, "The Christ, the Son of God." Jhn 20:31
Paul, Apostle, "He is the Son of God." Act 9:20
Disciples, "Thou art the Son of God." Mat 14:33
Nathaniel, "Rabbi, thou art the Son of God." Jhn 1:49
Martha, "The Christ, the Son of God." Jhn 11:27
Eunuch, "Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Act 8:37
Centurion, "Truly this was the Son of God." Mar 15:39
Unclean spirits, "Thou art the Son of God." Mar 3:11
The Legion, "Thou Son of the Most High God." Mar 5:7
II.—Unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever. Hbr 1:8
God Jhn 1:1; Mat 1:23; Isa 40:3
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever Hbr 1:8
The Mighty God Isa 9:6
The Everlasting God Isa 40:28
The True God 1Jo 5:20
My Lord and my God Jhn 20:28
God my Saviour Luk 1:47
Over all, God blessed for ever. Amen Rom 9:5
The God of the whole earth Isa 54:5
God manifest in the flesh 1Ti 3:16
Our God and Savior 2Pe 1:1
The great God and our Saviour, Jesus Christ Tts 2:13
Emanuel, God with us Mat 1:23
The God of Abraham, The God of Isaac, The God of Jacob Exd 3:2, 6
The Highest Luk 1:76
III.—Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Jhn 8:58. Holy, Holy, Holy is Jehovah of Hosts. Isa 6:3
Jehovah Isa 40:3
The Lord Jehovah Isa 40:10
Jehovah my God Zec 14:5
Jehovah of Hosts Isa 6:3; Jhn 12:41
Jehovah, God of Hosts Hsa 12:4, 5; Gen 32:24
The King, Jehovah of Hosts Isa 6:5
The Strong and Mighty Jehovah Psa 24:8
Jehovah, mighty in battle Psa 24:8
The Man, Jehovah's Fellow Zec 13:7
Jehovah-tsidkenu (the Lord our righteousness) Jer 23:6
The Lord Rom 10:13; Joe 2:32
The Lord of Glory 1Cr 2:8
The Same Hbr 1:12; Psa 102:27
I am Exd 3:14; Jhn 8:24
I am (before Abraham was) Jhn 8:58
I am (whom they sought to kill) Jhn 18:5, 6
I am (the Son of Man lifted up) Jhn 8:28
I am (the Resurrection and the Life) Jhn 11:25
IV.—He is before All things, and by Him All things consist. Col 1:17
The Almighty, which is, and which was, and which is to come Rev 1:8
The Creator of all things Col 1:16
The Upholder of all things Hbr 1:3
The Everlasting Father (or Father of Eternity) Isa 9:6
The Beginning Col 1:18
The Beginning and the Ending Rev 1:8
The Alpha and the Omega Rev 1:8
The First and the Last Rev 1:17
The Life 1Jo 1:2
Eternal Life 1Jo 5:20
That Eternal Life which was with the Father 1Jo 1:2
He that liveth Rev 1:18
V.—No man hath seen God at any time; he hath Declared Him. Jhn 1:18
The Word Jhn 1:1
The Word was with God Jhn 1:1
The Word was God Jhn 1:1
The Word of God Rev 19:13
The Word of Life 1Jo 1:1
The Word was made flesh Jhn 1:14
The Image of God 2Cr 4:4
The Image of the Invisible God Col 1:15
The Express Image of his Person Hbr 1:3
The Brightness of his Glory Hbr 1:3
Wisdom Pro 8:12, 22
The Wisdom of God 1Cr 1:24
The Power of God 1Cr 1:24
My Messenger Isa 42:19
The Messenger of the Covenant Mal 3:1
The Angel of Jehovah Gen 22:15
The Angel of God Gen 31:11, 13; Exd 14:19
The Angel of his presence Isa 63:9
VI.—Thou hast made Him a little lower than the angels. Hbr 2:7
The Man Jhn 19:5
The Man Christ Jesus 1Ti 2:5
A Man approved of God Act 2:22
The Second Man, the Lord from heaven 1Cr 15:47
The Son of Man Mar 10:33
The Son of Abraham Mat 1:1
The Son of David Mat 1:1
The Son of Mary Mar 6:3
The Son of Joseph (reputed) Jhn 1:45
The Seed of the Woman Gen 3:15
The Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16, 19
Of the Seed of David Rom 1:3
VII.—Lo, I Come, to do thy will, O God. Hbr 10:9
The Babe Luk 2:12
The Child Isa 7:16
The Young Child Mat 2:20
A Child Born Isa 9:6
The Child Jesus Luk 2:43
Her First-Born Son Luk 2:7
The Sent of the Father Jhn 10:36
The Apostle Hbr 3:1
A Prophet Act 3:22, 23
A Great Prophet Luk 7:16
The Prophet of Nazareth Mat 21:11
A Prophet mighty in deed and word Luk 24:19
A Servant Phl 2:7
The Servant of the Father Mat 12:18
My Servant, O Israel Isa 49:3
My Servant, the Branch Zec 3:8
My Righteous Servant Isa 53:11
A Servant of Rulers Isa 49:7
A Nazarene, or Nazarite Mat 2:23
The Carpenter Mar 6:3
The Carpenter's Son (reputed) Mat 13:55
He Humbled Himself unto death Phl 2:8
A Stranger and an Alien Psa 69:8
A Man of Sorrows Isa 53:3
A Worm, and no Man Psa 22:6
Accursed of God (or the Curse of God) Deu 21:23
VIII.—God hath given him A Name which is above every name. Phl 2:9, 10
Jesus Mat 1:21
Jesus Himself Luk 24:15
I, Jesus Rev 22:16
A Saviour, Jesus Act 13:23
The Saviour of the World 1Jo 4:14
A Saviour, which is Christ the Lord Luk 2:11
Jesus Christ Rev 1:5
The Lord Jesus Christ Col 1:2
Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself 2Th 2:16
Jesus the Christ Mat 16:20
Jesus Christ our Lord Rom 5:21
Jesus Christ the Righteous 1Jo 2:1
Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, to-day and for ever Hbr 13:8
Jesus of Nazareth Act 22:8
Jesus Christ of Nazareth Act 4:10
Lord Jesus Act 7:59
Christ Jesus 1Ti 1:15
Christ Mat 23:8
Messiah, which is called Christ Jhn 4:25
Anointed Psa 2:2; Act 4:27
Christ the Lord Luk 2:11
The Lord Christ Col 3:24
The Christ of God Luk 9:20
The Lord's Christ Luk 2:26
The Christ, the Son of the Blessed Mar 14:61
The Christ, the Saviour of the World Jhn 4:42
IX.—Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, riches, wisdom, strength, honor, glory and blessing. Rev 5:12
The Lamb of God Jhn 1:29
A Lamb without blemish and without spot 1Pe 1:19
The Lamb that was slain Rev 5:12
A Lamb as it had been slain Rev 5:6
The Lamb in the midst of the throne Rev 7:17
The Bridegroom Mat 9:15; Rev 21:9
The Lamb (the Temple of the City) Rev 21:22
The Lamb (the Light of the City) Rev 21:23
The Lamb (the Overcomer) Rev 17:14
X.—I will set up One Shepherd over them, and he shall feed them. Eze 34:23
One Shepherd Jhn 10:16
Jehovah's Shepherd Zec 13:7
The Shepherd of the Sheep Hbr 13:20
The Way Jhn 14:6
The Door of the Sheep Jhn 10:7
The Shepherd of Israel Eze 34:23
The Shepherd and Bishop of Souls 1Pe 2:25
The Good Shepherd (that laid down his life) Jhn 10:11
The Great Shepherd (that was brought again from the dead) Hbr 13:20
The Chief Shepherd (that shall again appear) 1Pe 5:4
XI.—The Tree of Life in the midst of the Paradise of God. Rev 2:7
The Root of Jesse Isa 11:10
The Root of David Rev 5:5
The Root and Offspring of David Rev 22:16
A Rod out of the stem of Jesse Isa 11:1
A Branch out of his roots Isa 11:1
The Branch Zec 6:12
The Branch of the Lord Isa 4:2
The Branch of Righteousness Jer 33:15
A Righteous Branch Jer 23:5
The Branch strong for thyself Psa 80:15
The Vine Jhn 15:5
The True Vine Jhn 15:1
The Tree of Life Rev 2:7
The Corn of Wheat Jhn 12:24
The Bread of God Jhn 6:33
The True Bread from Heaven Jhn 6:32
The Bread which came down from Heaven Jhn 6:41
The Bread which cometh down from Heaven Jhn 6:50
The Bread of Life Jhn 6:35
The Living Bread Jhn 6:51
The Hidden Manna Rev 2:17
A Plant of Renown Eze 34:29
The Rose of Sharon Sgs 2:1
The Lily of the Valley Sgs 2:1
A Bundle of Myrrh Sgs 1:13
A Cluster of Camphire Sgs 1:14
XII.—I am the Light of the world; he that followeth me shall have the Light of Life. Jhn 8:12
The Light Jhn 12:35
The True Light Jhn 1:9
A Great Light Isa 9:2
A Light came into the world Jhn 12:46
The Light of the world Jhn 8:12
The Light of men Jhn 1:4
A Light to lighten the Gentiles Luk 2:32
A Light of the Gentiles Isa 42:6
A Star Num 24:17
The Morning Star Rev 2:28
The Bright and Morning Star Rev 22:16
The Day Star 2Pe 1:19
The Day-spring from on High Luk 1:78
The Sun of Righteousness Mal 4:2
XIII.—The name of the Lord is a Strong Tower. Pro 18:10
The Strength of the children of Israel Joe 3:12-16
A Strength to the Poor Isa 25:4
A Strength to the needy in distress Isa 25:4
A Refuge from the Storm Isa 25:4
A Covert from the Tempest Isa 32:2
The Hope of his people Joe 3:12-16
A Horn of Salvation Luk 1:69
XIV.—They drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 1Cr 10:4
The Rock Mat 16:18
My Strong Rock Psa 31:2
The Rock of Ages Isa 26:4
The Rock that is higher than I Psa 61:2
My Rock and my Fortress Psa 31:3
The Rock of my Strength Psa 62:7
The Rock of my Refuge Psa 94:22
A Rock of Habitation Psa 71:3
The Rock of my Heart Psa 73:26
The Rock of my Salvation 2Sa 22:47
My Rock and my Redeemer Psa 19:14
That Spiritual Rock 1Cr 10:4
The Rock that followed them 1Cr 10:4
A Shadow from the Heat Isa 25:4
XV.—Other Foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1Cr 3:11
The Builder Hbr 3:3; Mat 16:18
The Foundation 1Cr 3:11
A Sure Foundation Isa 28:16
A Stone Isa 28:16
A Living Stone 1Pe 2:4
A Tried Stone Isa 28:16
A Chief Corner-stone 1Pe 2:6
An Elect Stone 1Pe 2:6
A Precious Stone 1Pe 2:6
The Head Stone of the Corner Psa 118:22
A Stone cut out without hands Dan 2:34, 45
But unto them which are disobedient, -
A Stone of Stumbling 1Pe 2:8
A Rock of Offence 1Pe 2:8
XVI.—In His Temple every Whit of it uttereth His glory. Psa 29:9
The Temple Rev 21:22
A Sanctuary Isa 8:14
The Minister of the Sanctuary and of the True Tabernacle Hbr 8:2
Minister of the Circumcision Rom 15:8
The Veil (his flesh) Hbr 10:20
The Altar Hbr 13:10
The Offerer Hbr 7:27
The Offering Eph 5:2
The Sacrifice Eph 5:2
A Ransom (his life) Mar 10:49
The Lamb Rev 7:9
The Lamb Slain Rev 13:8
Within the Veil- -
The Forerunner (for us entered, even Jesus) Hbr 6:20
The Mercy-seat (or Propitiation) Rom 3:25
The Priest Hbr 5:6
The High Priest Hbr 3:1
The Great High Priest Hbr 4:14
The Mediator 1Ti 2:5
The Daysman Job 9:33
The Interpreter Job 33:23
The Intercessor Hbr 7:25
The Advocate 1Jo 2:1
The Surety Hbr 7:22

Nice titles, but I doubt that a man such as Eashoa would have been impressed by them. I try to call Him by His original name out of respect. I would call Him Yeshua, but I figure that, for the most part, those who used His formal Hebrew name were trying to get Him in trouble. I believe that His common name among the people would have been used by His friends.

 

[kjw47]

It's very hard for the deceived to understand that when Jesus spoke of His God and His Father, He was FLESH AND BLOOD, HUMAN! As a human, He emptied Himself of His deity and became just like us, so yes, when Jesus was HUMAN, He had a God and Father in heaven, just like everyone except the rank and file witness!

Jesus wasn't mortal at Rev 3:12--where he stresses 4 x in a single paragraph that he has a God. Who did God tell all to listen to= his son. over the dogmas of men.

 

[kjw47]

No modern translations come from the original writings. Fortunately the discipline of Textual Criticism has compiled about 5800 ancient manuscripts of the New Testament dating back to around 150 A.D. to which we can compare our current translations and interlinears. Some translations, of course, are better than others and depending on whether the method of Formal or Dynamic Equivalence is followed. I prefer Dynamic Equivalence because it tends to a closer word-for-word translation. Nevertheless, we have access to very reliable translations and Greek scholars, both past and present that verify confidence, that within the canon of the modern-day Biblical texts God has preserved the original writings. BTW this same Greek scholarship rejects the NWT as a mis-translation.

Trinity greeks say the NWT is wrong--Many unbiased greek scholars say its the best translation ever. That is the reality of the situation.

 

[kjw47]

So true, listening to Jesus, one finds truth. Not one witness listens to, or knows what Jesus actually said. They listen to what their 'slave' says Jesus said and get to read it from a Bible that their 'salve' wrote themselves!

Are you kidding? The teachings of Jesus are the same in every translation) except--earth--land at Matt 5:5)
The JW teachers teach--every utterance from God to us, year after year, over and over. it does not stop.
Do you mean we don't know this truth Jesus taught?--Matt 5:5--Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the EARTH.-- you see one has to throw Jesus away to teach--heaven or hell as ones end. The blind listen to those who throw Jesus away--WHY? Because their ears were tickled with--you are saved or born again.

 

[Rick B]

Trinity greeks say the NWT is wrong--Many unbiased greek scholars say its the best translation ever. That is the reality of the situation.

There is no such thing as an "unbiased" anyone. We all interpret reality, facts, truth, etc. through our biases our presuppositions - the interpretive grid by which we express our strongly held beliefs.

JW's say all other versions are wrong. It goes both ways.

It is hopeful that those who exegete the Greek manuscripts and translate them into the English language, in our case, and to the best of their ability set aside their biases and adhere to a strict method of interpretation. That is why an assembly of scholars is better than a single translator.

It is the consensus of those committees that have produced the several reliable Bible versions that in our current discussion, John 1:1c, adding "a" before God (Theos) is unwarranted eisegesis because of the context and the rules of Greek grammar.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Are you kidding? The teachings of Jesus are the same in every translation)

Really? Then why did your leaders find it necessary to "re-write" their own Bible!

The JW teachers teach--every utterance from God to us, year after year, over and over. it does not stop.

Only the satanically deceived believes that nonsense. If your teachers, "taught every utterance from God" why do they keep having to make "CORRECTIONS", "year after year, over and over"? "it does not stop"!

you see one has to throw Jesus away to teach...

"you see one has to throw Jesus away to teach...", Jesus isn't your mediator, you are not under the New Covenant, there's no salvation outside your organization, only 144,000 are going to heaven, and so much more.

 

[kjw47]

Really? Then why did your leaders find it necessary to "re-write" their own Bible!



Only the satanically deceived believes that nonsense. If your teachers, "taught every utterance from God" why do they keep having to make "CORRECTIONS", "year after year, over and over"? "it does not stop"!



"you see one has to throw Jesus away to teach...", Jesus isn't your mediator, you are not under the New Covenant, there's no salvation outside your organization, only 144,000 are going to heaven, and so much more.

2 small translating errors by the religion that came out of Rome years after Jesus. A small g god belongs in the last line of John 1:1--otherwise in trinity talk the 2nd line reads-- And God was with God= impossible, there is one God. And They have mortals bowing to a mortal Jesus( Heb 2:7-9) in worship= error. In obeisance to their king is the correct usage of what a mortal gets. The bible teaches not even worship to an angel, Jesus was lower than the angels while on earth. Always obeisance to Jesus, never worship. There is a list in Revelation of what God shares with Jesus, worship is not one of them.
Rev 1:1 proves Jesus is not God--A revelation of Jesus Christ( one being) GIVEN to him by God( one being)--- If they are one as Trinitarians are taught--- God would be insane here--He would be saying---here me have a revelation. Or at Rev 3:12-- God has a God= impossible.