The Bible, Israel, significance

[Desert Snake]

The God of the Bible, who is stated to be the Creator of heaven and earth and involved in the affairs of humanity, has identified His Name with Israel, He calls Himself the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. I suggest you read the scriptures while prayerfully asking God why His focus is upon Israel.


"It is common sense that the true God would only reveal Himself to sincere and earnest seekers who want to know Him in truth in order to obey Him. The first prerequisite to knowing God is the willingness—indeed, the passion—to know Him as He really is, not as one imagines or would like Him to be. It is no less idolatry to create an imaginary god in one’s mind than to make one out of clay, wood, or stone. So, who is the true God who proves Himself by unfailingly foretelling the future in the Bible? As we have seen in past articles, the Bible identifies Him as “the God of Israel” 203 times, “the God of Jacob” 28 times, “the God of Abraham” 17 times, and “the God of Isaac” 13 times. Never is He called the “God of any other ethnic group.” These designations are foundational to everything the Bible teaches, including the very character of God. To profess to believe in God and at the same time to hold a prejudice against God’s chosen people, the Jews, or against Israel, which turns these clear biblical identifications into meaningless titles, casts doubt upon whether one really knows the true God."

excerpt:
God of Jacob, God of Israel (Part 1) | thebereancall.org

So why be a Christian? Why would a Gentile follow that religion?

 

[ChristineES]

Christianity only spread in any significant way outside of Israel, that's why it is an officially Jewish nation.

Simply relating the beginnings of Christianity to Israel does not address my question.

Whoever put the Bible together in one volume obviously thought it was important to add the older books (scrolls) as well. Being that they are included with the NT, people would naturally read those books. And, as I said earlier, Jesus quoted a lot from those older scrolls nearly everything He said was based on those older teachings. On top of that, most of us believe it to be the same God- although some disagree with that. Honeslty, why wouldn't they be included.

 

[Desert Snake]

Whoever put the Bible together in one volume obviously thought it was important to add the older books (scrolls) as well. Being that they are included with the NT, people would naturally read those books. And, as I said earlier, Jesus quoted a lot from those older scrolls nearly everything He said was based on those older teachings. On top of that, most of us believe it to be the same God- although some disagree with that. Honeslty, why wouldn't they be included.

I'm not talking about the OT, I'm talking about Israel.

So you think Christianity and Judaism are the same religion?

 

[ChristineES]

So why be a Christian? Why would a Gentile follow that religion?

Why not? Judaism is a wonderful religion- I believe the Jews to be God's Chosen People. But Christians don't follow Judaism- outside of Messianic Jews. (Although I've never practiced it, I am a Jew by birth- I have been thinking of converting over to Judaism for a couple of years now- my belief in Jesus is the only roadblock- I usually say I am Jewish descent, since I don't practice the faith).

 

[Desert Snake]

Never is He called the “God of any other ethnic group.”

So the Bible is only for Jews?

 

[ChristineES]

I'm not talking about the OT, I'm talking about Israel.

So you think Christianity and Judaism are the same religion?

No, they're not the same religion, my friend, they are the same God (the way I see it). The earliest followers of Jesus, His apostles, were Jews. Paul made it into a separate religion.

 

[ChristineES]

So the Bible is only for Jews?

I used to belong to a forum for Messianic Jews who said that Jesus only came for Jews. A few here have said the same thing. Some Messianic Jews do accept Christians, however.

 

[InChrist]

... a relatively new insight on the part of a stream of evangelicals.

I do not know, but would be most interested in knowing, what the likes of Calvin and Luther thought about Israel; ditto Pope Pius XII and those who preceded him.

I believe Calvin and Luther thought the church had replaced Israel. Luther originally was respectful toward Jews, but then became very anti-Semitic even writing a book which promoted hatred toward Jews stating they were a rejected race, their homes and synagogues should be burned and destroyed. The belief of the popes and the Catholic Church is that the Catholic Church is spiritual Israel having replaced national, ethnic Israel in God's eyes and plan and I believe most popes have been notoriously anti-Semitic.

 

[InChrist]

So the Bible is only for Jews?

That is not what I said.

 

[Desert Snake]

That is not what I said.

Actually it is, if we are to believe the exceprt you posted,

btw you never answered how Israel relates to Christianity.

 

[InChrist]

So why be a Christian? Why would a Gentile follow that religion?

I believe God chose Israel to be a light to the nations. They fell short and instead lived in rebellion and sin against God, as do all human beings. Yet, it was through the nation of Israel that God has kept His promise to send a Savior to pay for the sins of the world and He will fulfill the rest of His promises to Israel and establish them as a kingdom of peace and blessing to the world with Messiah ruling from Jerusalem. Its not about following a religion, from my perspective. It is about believing God's Word.

 

[ChristineES]

This out-of-context verse may be of some importance:

Luke 24:47 And repentance and remission of sins must be preached on His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

 

[InChrist]

Actually it is, if we are to believe the exceprt you posted,

Maybe you should read the entire article.

btw you never answered how Israel relates to Christianity.

[/quote]

I thought the question was concerning the significance of Israel to Christianity and I answered that Israel is significant because God says in His Word that Israel is significant. The whole history recorded in the OT and the testimony of the scriptures reveal why Israel is significant.

 

[Desert Snake]

I believe God chose Israel to be a light to the nations. They fell short and instead lived in rebellion and sin against God, as do all human beings. Yet, it was through the nation of Israel that God has kept His promise to send a Savior to pay for the sins of the world and He will fulfill the rest of His promises to Israel and establish them as a kingdom of peace and blessing to the world with Messiah ruling from Jerusalem. Its not about following a religion, from my perspective. It is about believing God's Word.

O.k., so is Israel is going to convert to Christianity?

 

[Desert Snake]

This out-of-context verse may be of some importance:

Luke 24:47 And repentance and remission of sins must be preached on His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Doesn't seem very relevant to the OP question actually, unless you care to explain it's significance.

 

[InChrist]

O.k., so is Israel is going to convert to Christianity?

They will be saved:

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:“The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27

 

[Desert Snake]

Why not? Judaism is a wonderful religion- I believe the Jews to be God's Chosen People. But Christians don't follow Judaism- outside of Messianic Jews.

I asked why Christians would be Christians if the bible is only for Jews, not why someone would convert to Judaism.

It was actually a question in response to another members comments.

 

[Desert Snake]

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27

So, Israel will convert to Christianity or not? Is it possible for you to answer these simple questions without posting Scripture where I have to infer what the article or you mean?

 

[fallingblood]

Christianity only spread in any significant way outside of Israel, that's why it is an officially Jewish nation.

Simply relating the beginnings of Christianity to Israel does not address my question.

I don't quite follow this. Israel, as a state today, is quite different then the Israel (or Palestine) in the days of Jesus. To state that Israel is one thing today really tells us nothing about the historic situation. So the argument really doesn't apply.

I also didn't simply relate the beginnings of Christianity to Israel. Here is what I said: "It was also Jews, or the Israelites who gave Christianity the foundation in which allowed it to form. It then becomes almost like a homeland, or maybe the ideal homeland based on a grandiose view of the Kingdom of David, and Kingdom of God.

In many ways, there was the idea in which Christians were to become the new Israel as well. One can still find such sentiments in various Christian sects, even though to a large extent, that idea is slipping away or is being seen through a new lens."

 

[Pegg]

Yes, we get it, but my question isn't really about the NT, it's about the significance/importance of Israel to Christianity.

Christianity was founded by Isrealites.

Christianity is about the appearance of the long awaiting Messiah of the hebrew scritpures.