-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
The Bible on Sex
- Thread starter Beaudreaux
- Start date
rageoftyrael
Veritas
Burnt offerings. You never proved your point that he was wrong. If you had, someone would have agreed with you, to some extent at least. Well, i could be wrong, maybe it was just how you went about refuting his statements that made us less than willing to agree. I'll look back at the whole conversation and give you my opinion in a little bit.
Tumbleweed said Leviticus proved God still asked for burnt offerings. I told him that it was not burnt offerings that Leviticus is telling us how to prepare meat. The Jews call it Kosher food. We argued back and forth, Comickaze came on with a definition of Kosher and said it proved me wrong. Yet the definition of Kosher pointed to Leviticus. So by trying to prove me wrong he proved me right. End of Story. The rest is just hurt egos because they tried to pull a fast one and could not get away with it.
rageoftyrael
Veritas
quick question. I'll assume you know this. Is leviticus after the flood?
rageoftyrael
Veritas
kay, where in leviticus does it say that all of leviticus is just a recipe? or is it somewhere else, be specific, cause i'm gonna look it up.
Yes, but as I stated before any burnt offerings after the flood were given because the people wanted to. Not because God commanded it. God stopped asking for burnt offerings either right before or after Noahs flood. ( In that general time frame, when I have time to sit down and research it I will find the scripture to prove it. )
Pretty much all of Leviticus iirc.
rageoftyrael
Veritas
okay, i'm sorry, i just got done reading leviticus, and while i agree that there are some recipe parts, where it describes how to cook offerings for god, it is not in and of itself a recipe. Read this.
Leviticus 4
1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:
3If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.
4And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the LORD.
13And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which should not be done, and are guilty;
14When the sin, which they have sinned against it, is known, then the congregation shall offer a young bullock for the sin, and bring him before the tabernacle of the congregation.
15And the elders of the congregation shall lay their hands upon the head of the bullock before the LORD: and the bullock shall be killed before the LORD.
22When a ruler hath sinned, and done somewhat through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD his God concerning things which should not be done, and is guilty;
23Or if his sin, wherein he hath sinned, come to his knowledge; he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a male without blemish:
24And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the goat, and kill it in the place where they kill the burnt offering before the LORD: it is a sin offering.
27And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
28Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.
29And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.
Leviticus 5
1And if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he hath seen or known of it; if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity.
2Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty.
3Or if he touch the uncleanness of man, whatsoever uncleanness it be that a man shall be defiled withal, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty.
4Or if a soul swear, pronouncing with his lips to do evil, or to do good, whatsoever it be that a man shall pronounce with an oath, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty in one of these.
5And it shall be, when he shall be guilty in one of these things, that he shall confess that he hath sinned in that thing:
6And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.
7And if he be not able to bring a lamb, then he shall bring for his trespass, which he hath committed, two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, unto the LORD; one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering.
8And he shall bring them unto the priest, who shall offer that which is for the sin offering first, and wring off his head from his neck, but shall not divide it asunder:
9And he shall sprinkle of the blood of the sin offering upon the side of the altar; and the rest of the blood shall be wrung out at the bottom of the altar: it is a sin offering.
14And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
15If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the LORD; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering.
16And he shall make amends for the harm that he hath done in the holy thing, and shall add the fifth part thereto, and give it unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering, and it shall be forgiven him.
17And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.
18And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and wist it not, and it shall be forgiven him.
19It is a trespass offering: he hath certainly trespassed against the LORD.
Leviticus 5
8And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
9Command Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the burnt offering: It is the burnt offering, because of the burning upon the altar all night unto the morning, and the fire of the altar shall be burning in it.
10And the priest shall put on his linen garment, and his linen breeches shall he put upon his flesh, and take up the ashes which the fire hath consumed with the burnt offering on the altar, and he shall put them beside the altar.
11And he shall put off his garments, and put on other garments, and carry forth the ashes without the camp unto a clean place.
12And the fire upon the altar shall be burning in it; it shall not be put out: and the priest shall burn wood on it every morning, and lay the burnt offering in order upon it; and he shall burn thereon the fat of the peace offerings.
13The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out.
14And this is the law of the meat offering: the sons of Aaron shall offer it before the LORD, before the altar.
Okay, that is a lot. This is all after the flood, as you yourself said. God told them to do this, thus he commanded them. I suppose if you get into the semantics of it, you could say that they didn't have to, he gave them a choice, but he did say that if they wanted to be free of sin, they had to sacrifice animals.
It is said over and over. The word sacrifice is said over and over.
As for the recipe part, god is simply telling them what to put into cooked offerings and also what not to put into the offerings. And part of these offerings are burnt in sacrifice for god as well. I understand why you would mistake it for a recipe, though why god would tell people how to cook is beyond me.
Essentially, there is overwhelming evidence against your statement, right there. I don't get any pleasure proving you wrong, but i feel that i have.
Oh, and everyone, i apologize for how long this post is, but i felt that the verses were needed to prove my point.
Leviticus 4
1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:
3If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.
4And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the LORD.
13And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which should not be done, and are guilty;
14When the sin, which they have sinned against it, is known, then the congregation shall offer a young bullock for the sin, and bring him before the tabernacle of the congregation.
15And the elders of the congregation shall lay their hands upon the head of the bullock before the LORD: and the bullock shall be killed before the LORD.
22When a ruler hath sinned, and done somewhat through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD his God concerning things which should not be done, and is guilty;
23Or if his sin, wherein he hath sinned, come to his knowledge; he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a male without blemish:
24And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the goat, and kill it in the place where they kill the burnt offering before the LORD: it is a sin offering.
27And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
28Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.
29And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.
Leviticus 5
1And if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he hath seen or known of it; if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity.
2Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty.
3Or if he touch the uncleanness of man, whatsoever uncleanness it be that a man shall be defiled withal, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty.
4Or if a soul swear, pronouncing with his lips to do evil, or to do good, whatsoever it be that a man shall pronounce with an oath, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty in one of these.
5And it shall be, when he shall be guilty in one of these things, that he shall confess that he hath sinned in that thing:
6And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.
7And if he be not able to bring a lamb, then he shall bring for his trespass, which he hath committed, two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, unto the LORD; one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering.
8And he shall bring them unto the priest, who shall offer that which is for the sin offering first, and wring off his head from his neck, but shall not divide it asunder:
9And he shall sprinkle of the blood of the sin offering upon the side of the altar; and the rest of the blood shall be wrung out at the bottom of the altar: it is a sin offering.
14And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
15If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the LORD; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering.
16And he shall make amends for the harm that he hath done in the holy thing, and shall add the fifth part thereto, and give it unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering, and it shall be forgiven him.
17And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.
18And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and wist it not, and it shall be forgiven him.
19It is a trespass offering: he hath certainly trespassed against the LORD.
Leviticus 5
8And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
9Command Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the burnt offering: It is the burnt offering, because of the burning upon the altar all night unto the morning, and the fire of the altar shall be burning in it.
10And the priest shall put on his linen garment, and his linen breeches shall he put upon his flesh, and take up the ashes which the fire hath consumed with the burnt offering on the altar, and he shall put them beside the altar.
11And he shall put off his garments, and put on other garments, and carry forth the ashes without the camp unto a clean place.
12And the fire upon the altar shall be burning in it; it shall not be put out: and the priest shall burn wood on it every morning, and lay the burnt offering in order upon it; and he shall burn thereon the fat of the peace offerings.
13The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out.
14And this is the law of the meat offering: the sons of Aaron shall offer it before the LORD, before the altar.
Okay, that is a lot. This is all after the flood, as you yourself said. God told them to do this, thus he commanded them. I suppose if you get into the semantics of it, you could say that they didn't have to, he gave them a choice, but he did say that if they wanted to be free of sin, they had to sacrifice animals.
It is said over and over. The word sacrifice is said over and over.
As for the recipe part, god is simply telling them what to put into cooked offerings and also what not to put into the offerings. And part of these offerings are burnt in sacrifice for god as well. I understand why you would mistake it for a recipe, though why god would tell people how to cook is beyond me.
Essentially, there is overwhelming evidence against your statement, right there. I don't get any pleasure proving you wrong, but i feel that i have.
Oh, and everyone, i apologize for how long this post is, but i felt that the verses were needed to prove my point.
Its ok you must not be a hunter. When you kill a animal you have to bleed/clean it properly before you cook it or it can make you sick. (im summarizing like crazy) God is telling us how to properly do this to keep it from making us sick. Ill find the scripture I am thinking of to prove my point. It may not be in Genesis like I thought. Will post it when I find it.
rageoftyrael
Veritas
Are you serious? The words offering and sacrifice are scattered so liberally throughout the entire thing that i find it hard that you can say this. Essentially what you are telling me is that you have decided that what this says means something other than what it says?
I understand that some things aren't necesarilly to be taken literally, cause they aren't literal claims, but every verse i put up there WAS literal. How are you ignoring that?
Are you just dropping logic because if you actually used logic you would be wrong? Is it so hard to admit that you are wrong?
Dude, you MIGHT(i stress that really, really hard) be right, but this still proves that god asked for sacrifices after the flood. It doesn't matter if he later says he doesn't need them, that isn't the point. The entire argument is whether or not he asked for animal sacrifices after the flood, which he did.
Okay, you find that verse that proves these many verses wrong, and i will probably take it with a grain of salt. Because it doesn't seem like you are being reasonable right now, just arguing to be arguing, which if that is what you are doing, cool, just admit it though.
I understand that some things aren't necesarilly to be taken literally, cause they aren't literal claims, but every verse i put up there WAS literal. How are you ignoring that?
Are you just dropping logic because if you actually used logic you would be wrong? Is it so hard to admit that you are wrong?
Dude, you MIGHT(i stress that really, really hard) be right, but this still proves that god asked for sacrifices after the flood. It doesn't matter if he later says he doesn't need them, that isn't the point. The entire argument is whether or not he asked for animal sacrifices after the flood, which he did.
Okay, you find that verse that proves these many verses wrong, and i will probably take it with a grain of salt. Because it doesn't seem like you are being reasonable right now, just arguing to be arguing, which if that is what you are doing, cool, just admit it though.
rageoftyrael
Veritas
also, if it really is just a recipe to show us how to not get sick, why does he repeat it over and over? i don't see the point, tell us what we need to know, and then be done with it. I also don't see how sprinkling blood in seven different places has much to do with the health of the people, or how putting blood on ears and toes is particularly healthy either.
I was not arguing with you. You asked why would God give us a recipe because it seemed silly to you. I answered with "because He is teaching us how to do it to keep from making us sick". No argument just a straight forward answer. Calm down on the defensiveness please.
I don't know why its repeated over and over, I got dizzy from reading the over and over haha. Like I said the OT has some old crazy stuff in it. Not all of it still applies. I know burnt offerings does not apply in this day, I just can't remember exactly when God stopped asking for them. (I thought after the flood, looks like I was wrong cause I cant find it in there yet, but I am still researching.)
Would you agree that God does not ask for burnt offerings in todays world? I certainly can't remember any church doing it in my lifetime.
Last edited:
rageoftyrael
Veritas
Well, honestly, i can't say that he doesn't, mainly cause i don't necessarily believe in him. Essentially, it seems that maybe he does want it, we just don't do it anymore though, hmm? Or, maybe he doesn't want it. If you say that somewhere in the bible god said he doesn't want animal sacrifices anymore, i'm fine with that. I'm not going to argue,cause it doesn't really matter. I just jumped into the argument cause it seemed like you were ignoring evidence and calling people names for it. well, not calling people names, but implying their stupidity. I'm just glad you can admit your wrong, and hope that i can to when the day comes that i'm wrong(which is all the time, but i like the way i worded that, lol).
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
As I think I said to you once already, Christian theology states that JESUS was the replacement of the burnt offering. That's why he's sometimes called the "Lamb of God" and is supposed to represent the "New" covenant. He's the new and improved sacrifice.
This is fundamental to Christian theology and I am surprized that someone so vocal about Christianity had such a foundational misunderstaning of its doctrine. Perhaps God is trying to teach you humility?The Leviticus passage that has been argued back and forth is definitely instruction on how to do a burnt offering to God.
Last edited:
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Eh? Wrong again buddy. I never said God still asked for burnt offerings. I was showing your complete lack of understanding of the Bible that you claim to know so well. You claimed the sacrifices ended with Noah. I showed God giving Moses exact instructions on how and when blood and burnt sacrifices were to be made. You then claimed that Leviticus was all about Kosher food. Wrong again. Read the entire book. You may learn something, then again, you may not.
Thank you.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Back to Sex in the Bible.....
Genesis..
6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
What does anyone make of this?
Genesis..
6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
What does anyone make of this?
Kosher food did come from Leviticus as shown in Comickaze's definition. Leviticus 7 or so I think the definition pointed to. Hey people make mistakes, you made several yourself. God did stop asking for burnt offerings I just made a mistake as to where it says it, no biggie.
Bedlam
Improperly Undefined
The massive level of Ad Hominem in this thread is making my head spin.
Comicaze247
See the previous line
I've heard it explained that angels made babies with humans, the resulting offspring were mortal, but more powerful than regular humans. This was considered to be a really big no no.
I've also heard it suggested that this is where the Hercules myths and the like originated, since there were "super-humans" around doing super-human stuff.