Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Literally that whole post.So again, where does it say "The word who became Christ DID the actual creating -as willed by the Father." like you said?
I'm going to assume you are not serious.
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Literally that whole post.So again, where does it say "The word who became Christ DID the actual creating -as willed by the Father." like you said?
Literally that whole post.
I'm going to assume you are not serious.
Jesus, the Creator of ALL things
John 1:3+10
All things were made through him….
…If Jesus is not God, did he create himself? Did God create himself?
false Christion'sSeriously, no Jesus and God are two separate beings. Christians are wrong. In any other context a son being his own father would be nonsense. The Bible repeatedly says "son of God" the Bible never says "God the son" that's something Christians came up with.
i find it interesting that people dont know whySo again, where does it say "The word who became Christ DID the actual creating -as willed by the Father." like you said?
Nooooooo. It says exactly that.Nowhere in that post does it say "The word who became Christ DID the actual creating -as willed by the Father.". Even if one is to believe that the prologue of John is Gods word or what ever inspiration you wish to believe in, yet, it only says Di Autou, which means "Through him". That does not and can never mean "Christ did the actual creating as willed by the father".
Way way way too much inference.
But since you are the proponent, you could point to the exact sentence and explain rather than saying "I assume you are not serious".
..... continuing in Colossians 1:15-16 created 'by' (THROUGH) him'.Nooooooo. It says exactly that.
All things were made BY him and FOR him.
In the Bible we find that God is Creator (Revelation 4:11) and that God did Not create Himself.Yes you see God created himself and then used himself to create everything then impregnated his mom and went to earth and became human to die and bring himself back to life to go back to heaven as God. Makes perfect sense.
Or, something that false Christians came up with.Seriously, no Jesus and God are two separate beings. Christians are wrong. In any other context a son being his own father would be nonsense. The Bible repeatedly says "son of God" the Bible never says "God the son" that's something Christians came up with.
Nooooooo. It says exactly that.
All things were made BY him and FOR him.
All things were made "through" him and without him nothing has been made (so jesus is an tool or vehicle of creation not the creator.)
Through is an important word in this case. If water runs through a pipe that doesn't mean the pipe is the water and it also doesn't mean the source of where the water came from is also the pipe.
Through...
Romans 11:35 “Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?”
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.
Seriously, no Jesus and God are two separate beings. Christians are wrong. In any other context a son being his own father would be nonsense. The Bible repeatedly says "son of God" the Bible never says "God the son" that's something Christians came up with.
Thank you for your reply. I hope you will look up the verses that I did Not quote.
I find Jesus was ' first born ' in the -> heavens.
To me, Israel and Ephraim was Not located in the heavens.
Colossians 1:15 places pre-human heavenly Jesus as first born in the -> heavens.
So, yes, there could only be one 'first born' in the heavens, thus pre-human Jesus being the beginning of the creation by God - Rev. 3:14 B
Yes, being ' first born' would definitely be a title of Honor, but a title does Not mean he was Not a creation.
Jesus was before any other creation both in heaven and on earth.
Please notice the word ' and ' at 1 Corinthians 8:6 because it mentions that for Christians there is one God (that is the Father) AND one Lord Jesus Christ.....
Through him by actually having him do the creating part. Yes. That was my point...... continuing in Colossians 1:15-16 created 'by' (THROUGH) him'.
Or as John 1:10 says ... and the world came into existence 'by' (THROUGH) him.
At Hebrews 1:2 God speaks to us 'by' (THROUGH) His Son, by whom he made the world.
The Bible says Jesus is God
Please quote in this connection from the Jewish Bible (called OT), which Jesus used to believe in, read from and did his action accordingly. Jesus never read from the 4 Gospels, please. Right?
Regards
I don't find the name Jesus in any of the quotes one gave from the Jewish Bible (or OT) that Jesus and Mary used to read from and act accordingly, please. Kindly highlight for me if I missed it, please. Right?Jesus lived the gospels and spoke the things that are in the gospels.
Concerning the Messiah the OT says.
Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Psalm 45:6 Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.
Psalm 102: 24 So I said:
“Do not take me away, my God, in the midst of my days;
your years go on through all generations.
25 In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
26 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
Like clothing you will change them
and they will be discarded.
27 But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.
28 The children of your servants will live in your presence;
their descendants will be established before you.”
Isa 8:13 The LORD of Hosts is the One you shall regard as holy. Only He should be feared; only He should be dreaded. 14 And He will be a sanctuary— but to both houses of Israel a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, to the dwellers of Jerusalem a trap and a snare.
Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.
Psalm 2:8 Ask me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession.
Psalm 82:8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.
Isa 63:2 Why are Your clothes red, and Your garments like one who treads the winepress? 3“I have trodden the winepress alone, and no one from the nations was with Me. I trampled them in My anger and trod them down in My fury; their blood spattered My garments, and all My clothes were stained. 4For the day of vengeance was in My heart, and the year of My redemption had come.…
etcetera
Some of these are not obvious unless you first read the New Testament, but some are plain in the Old Testament if it is read correctly.
I don't find the name Jesus in any of the quotes one gave from the Jewish Bible (or OT) that Jesus and Mary used to read from and act accordingly, please. Kindly highlight for me if I missed it, please. Right?
Regards