The big bang and the creation of the universe.

[Ouroboros]

Nonbelievers can't imagine God doing it. I imagine God took a spark of divine light so intense that it would blind you. From there the divine became the universe.

One important thing to remember, the "let there be light" moment didn't happen at the first moment of big bang, but about 100 million years later. That's when the first stars formed.

 

[idav]

One important thing to remember, the "let there be light" moment didn't happen at the first moment of big bang, but about 100 million years later. That's when the first stars formed.

True as far as the human visual spectrum is concerned. We have to use mechanical eyes that can ”see” the beginnings of the universe. Let there be light does go along with the formation of matter and stars.

 

[Ouroboros]

True as far as the human visual spectrum is concerned. We have to use mechanical eyes that can ”see” the beginnings of the universe. Let there be light does go along with the formation of matter and stars.

You mean redefining what the word "light" means, and have it mean something symbolic instead of literal? Sure. Just like the words "day", "create", "said", "commanded', and so on. God as a creative force, but not necessarily as a person or even a consciousness. Any word can mean anything if we want to. But if we don't do that and use the words literally instead, then the first light (as in visible light) would have been 100 million years after big bang.

 

[Repox]

One important thing to remember, the "let there be light" moment didn't happen at the first moment of big bang, but about 100 million years later. That's when the first stars formed.

You are talking about light in the universe. I'm taking about light from God, an entirely different kind of light. Based on what the prophets said about heavenly visions with brilliant light, one can speculate. Since OT times, I don't believe humans have experienced such visions.

 

[idav]

You mean redefining what the word "light" means, and have it mean something symbolic instead of literal? Sure. Just like the words "day", "create", "said", "commanded', and so on. God as a creative force, but not necessarily as a person or even a consciousness. Any word can mean anything if we want to. But if we don't do that and use the words literally instead, then the first light (as in visible light) would have been 100 million years after big bang.

I am in agreement with you. Just got technical about it.

 

[Ouroboros]

You are talking about light in the universe. I'm taking about light from God, an entirely different kind of light. Based on what the prophets said about heavenly visions with brilliant light, one can speculate. Since OT times, I don't believe humans have experienced such visions.

A "different kind of light" means that the "light" is thought of as a symbolic thing rather than the literal light. Literally, light means light. Figuratively, light can mean many other things. Figurative vs literal. You know? So literally light didn't enter the universe until the literal light came to be. Figurative light began whenever you want since it can mean whatever you want.

The figurative light might have started for me when I became conscious.

 

[Ouroboros]

I am in agreement with you. Just got technical about it.

That's totally okay.

 

[Repox]

A "different kind of light" means that the "light" is thought of as a symbolic thing rather than the literal light. Literally, light means light. Figuratively, light can mean many other things. Figurative vs literal. You know? So literally light didn't enter the universe until the literal light came to be. Figurative light began whenever you want since it can mean whatever you want.

The figurative light might have started for me when I became conscious.

I don't mean figurative light. God's light is literal, as OT prophets attest. You may believe light not associated with the universe is figurative, but I disagree. Here is what I believe. God's light is brilliant to the human eye, so intense that it may blind your. Also, God's light is warm, like the touch of heaven. God's light is heaven where there is no darkness, no shadows, and no dark corners. Set before the thrown of God is a bright crystal sea stretching in all directions for eternity. Like God, there is no ending to heaven.

It was easy for God. He took a spark of heaven and made the universe.

 

[Ouroboros]

I don't mean figurative light. God's light is literal, as OT prophets attest.

And since this topic is about Big Bang and the Creation, the physical, literal light began, scientifically, about 100 million years after Big Bang. Unless you want to argue against science and Big Bang and claim they're wrong.

You may believe light not associated with the universe is figurative, but I disagree. Here is what I believe. God's light is brilliant to the human eye, so intense that it may blind your. Also, God's light is warm, like the touch of heaven. God's light is heaven where there is no darkness, no shadows, and no dark corners. Set before the thrown of God is a bright crystal sea stretching in all directions for eternity. Like God, there is no ending to heaven.

So God and Heaven are physical things within this universe? Or physical things outside this universe? What began that physical universe if so? God must've had a First Cause too? If a physical world requires a creator, then a physical world outside our physical world also would require a creator.

It was easy for God. He took a spark of heaven and made the universe.

Well, that's your belief, but it's not physical, scientific, or very easy to understand in a literal sense. What is a spark? What does a "spark" consist of? Is it a physical reaction? Does it have a cause? Does that cause have a cause? Is it material? And so on.

 

[Repox]

And since this topic is about Big Bang and the Creation, the physical, literal light began, scientifically, about 100 million years after Big Bang. Unless you want to argue against science and Big Bang and claim they're wrong.

I have never argued against science or the big bang. I will be shamed when science proves a natural cause explanation. In the meantime, I maintain God caused the big bang.

So God and Heaven are physical things within this universe? Or physical things outside this universe? What began that physical universe if so? God must've had a First Cause too? If a physical world requires a creator, then a physical world outside our physical world also would require a creator.

I have never said God is a material being. God is a spiritual being with no beginning and no end. I believe that's a definition of eternity.

Well, that's your belief, but it's not physical, scientific, or very easy to understand in a literal sense. What is a spark? What does a "spark" consist of? Is it a physical reaction? Does it have a cause? Does that cause have a cause? Is it material? And so on.

This spark is a divine because it came from God, it has no physical attributes. Because God is eternal, there is no cause. One reason why we are different is because we were born, God was never born. God always was and always will be. You'll find that information about God in the Bible.

 

[Ouroboros]

Originally Posted by Ouroboros
Quote:
And since this topic is about Big Bang and the Creation, the physical, literal light began, scientifically, about 100 million years after Big Bang. Unless you want to argue against science and Big Bang and claim they're wrong.
I have never argued against science or the big bang. I will be shamed when science proves a natural cause explanation. In the meantime, I maintain God caused the big bang.

You can maintain whatever you want, but the light, the electromagnetic radioactive force thingymajigger still started about 100 mil y after BB, which is all that I said.

If God said "let there be light", it must've been 100 mil years in between his words or he said them 100 mil years after the creation of the universe. Regardless if God was a/the cause of any of it.

Quote:
So God and Heaven are physical things within this universe? Or physical things outside this universe? What began that physical universe if so? God must've had a First Cause too? If a physical world requires a creator, then a physical world outside our physical world also would require a creator.
I have never said God is a material being. God is a spiritual being with no beginning and no end. I believe that's a definition of eternity.

Eternity is only a definition of time. It means infinite time. If God is unbound by time, then God is non-temporal, not eternal.

Quote:
Well, that's your belief, but it's not physical, scientific, or very easy to understand in a literal sense. What is a spark? What does a "spark" consist of? Is it a physical reaction? Does it have a cause? Does that cause have a cause? Is it material? And so on.
This spark is a divine because it came from God, it has no physical attributes. Because God is eternal, there is no cause. One reason why we are different is because we were born, God was never born. God always was and always will be. You'll find that information about God in the Bible.

I wasn't arguing first cause. I was only pointing out that light began to exist quite a while after the beginning of the universe. It seems like that hit a tender spot. And again, eternal means something that is related to time, and if God is disconnected from time (non-temporal), then God is non-temporal, and not eternal. Eternal means something temporal.

 

[Repox]

you can maintain whatever you want, but the light, the electromagnetic radioactive force thingymajigger still started about 100 mil y after bb, which is all that i said.

This discussion began when I proposed that god started the big bang with a spark of his light. You have changed the subject to when light may have occurred after the big bang. These topics are not related.

if god said "let there be light", it must've been 100 mil years in between his words or he said them 100 mil years after the creation of the universe. Regardless if god was a/the cause of any of it.

if you recall from my postings I have never said anything about "let there be light" from Genesis. Again, what I said is god started the big bang with a spark of light. That has nothing to do with light after the big bang.

eternity is only a definition of time. It means infinite time. If god is unbound by time, then god is non-temporal, not eternal.

A dictionary definition of eternal is "having no beginning or end: Existing outside of time." the dictionary definition of eternity is "time without beginning or end: Infinite time." it seems to be a hair splitting game. I choose the definition of eternal for "existing outside of time."

i wasn't arguing first cause. I was only pointing out that light began to exist quite a while after the beginning of the universe. It seems like that hit a tender spot. And again, eternal means something that is related to time, and if god is disconnected from time (non-temporal), then god is non-temporal, and not eternal. Eternal means something temporal.

I didn't get it right away. Now, it's obvious, you changed to subject.

God is eternal and exists outside of time. Redefining the topic will not change it.

 

[idav]

There is no such thing as outside of time. There is either change or there isnt. An eternal non-changing entity wouldnt ever create anything or ever even do anything.

 

[Ouroboros]

I didn't get it right away. Now, it's obvious, you changed to subject.

God is eternal and exists outside of time. Redefining the topic will not change it.

Okay. Whatever you want.

 

[Ouroboros]

There is no such thing as outside of time. There is either change or there isnt. An eternal non-changing entity wouldnt ever create anything or ever even do anything.

Agree.

Time is progression of change, a causal chain of events. Without it, there's no "now". Without a "now" there never will be an event or action.

 

[Repox]

There is no such thing as outside of time. There is either change or there isnt. An eternal non-changing entity wouldnt ever create anything or ever even do anything.

Take it up with The American Heritage College Dictionary, Third Addition, where I found the definition for eternal. Maybe you can convince them to delete it. Even if the dictionary didn't have the definition, it's found in the Bible.

 

[Repox]

Agree.

Time is progression of change, a causal chain of events. Without it, there's no "now". Without a "now" there never will be an event or action.

Well, if you accept time as a progression of events, then there must have been a beginning. So, how did it start? Where is a natural science explanation for the beginning (big bang)?

Don't waste your time, God created the universe.

 

[idav]

Take it up with The American Heritage College Dictionary, Third Addition, where I found the definition. Maybe you can convince them to delete it.

Definitions give multiple meanings. Which one are you clinging to?

 

[Repox]

Definitions give multiple meanings. Which one are you clinging to?

What do you mean clinging to? If you had read the postings, you would know what the discussion was about. Assuming you know, you can find it in any dictionary.

 

[idav]

Well, if you accept time as a progression of events, then there must have been a beginning. So, how did it start? Where is a natural science explanation for the beginning (big bang)?

Don't waste your time, God created the universe.

What is the difference in saying the Cosmic Turtle created the big bang? Most would rightly say that's speculative.