The Binding of Satan

[12jtartar]

So when is Jesus coming back?
I wished he would hurry up.

Timothy Spurlin,
I have not lived long enough to actually KNOW that everything I read about really happened, and especially the way it happened. I doubt that you know, first hand, the everything you believe, you actually saw happen. We all believe much on trust, of what happened before we lived.
The reason I believe everything I read in the Bible is true, is, first of all, no human being could possibly be the Author of a Book, even compared to the Bible. This Book was written by about 40ty men, over the time of 1,600 years. This without disagreements, but all completely Harmonious. This Book, started in 15,13 BCE. By Moses, and completed in 98 AD. and is and always has been the most up to date Book ever written, when most books a obsolete before they get on the Bookshelves. Contained in this book is information that no human living at the time of writing knew. Scientists are amazed as to the accuracy of Genesis, with what they can determine the order of Creation to be completely accurate. Another thing, God had written that EVERYTHING living, bothe animal and plant life would, bring forth only, After its Kind. Today, this is called Prestabilism, by Scientists, and is unbreakable, as scientists have found out by many experiments, both Invitro, and Invivo. The protection written by Moses, in The Law of Moses surprises Scientists, even today. None in the ancient world, knew the safety of hygiene.
Probably, the most astounding things written in the Bible are the Prophecies. Some Prophecies were for short periods of time, while others were hundreds, even for thousands of years. Every one came true exactly as prophesied. With man, this is impossible, only The Almighty God could have a Book written like The Bible. God as even promised to protect His Book from those who would destroy it, or even Corrupt it.
Another thing that is written in God’s Book, is that it is written in a way that the wise and intellectual ones cannot understand it, but Babes can, Luke 10:21. What man could or can write a Book like The Holy Scriptures??? Agape!!!

 

[12jtartar]

So when is Jesus coming back?
I wished he would hurry up.

Timothy Spurlin,
I’m glad you asked that. The Bible tells us that no one knows the day or the hour, when Jesus will return, but we have many clues, as to the period of time when Jesus will return to earth.
The trouble is, we do not want to wait until Jesus returns to earth to start to obey him, because he returns to earth to JUDGE, mankind, John 5:22, Acts 17:31, Matthew 25:31-46, 2Peter 3:1-7.
Consider what the destiny is, of all those who do not KNOW GOD, and who do not OBEY The lord Jesus, 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10.
As to the TIME that Jesus will return to earth. Jesus’ disciples wanted to know that too. Only a few days before Jesus gave his life as a Ransom Sacrifice for us, four of his disciples came to him and asked; When will these things be and what will be the SIGN of your coming and the end of the system or things, Matthew 24:3? Jesus had just told them about the destruction of the temple, and the beautiful buildings around it, being destroyed, they wanted to know when, because they thought it was going to be soon, they did not know that it would be over 2,000 years before Jesus’ return. Jesus started to tell them many things that would happen before his return. The things Jesus mentioned are recorded at Matthew chapter 24, Mark chapter 13, Luke chapter 21. If you read the whole Chapter Matthew 24, Jesus mentions many thing that would happen before he would return, wars, famines, pestilence, earthquakes, signs in the sun and moon.
Now, to some extent all of these things have happened in all the centuries since Jesus was here, so how is this TIME, THIS generation different from all the others, so that anyone could unmistakenly reconize this generation that Jesus was speaking about at Matthew 24:34. A sure sign was mentioned by Jesus, when he said, Learn from the Parable of the Fig Tree. Jesus explained, when you see the tree limbs getting tender and leaves starting to grow, you know that Summer is near. Jesus then said; when you see all the things that Jesus just mentioned happening, you will know that Jesus is near.
The real difference is all of the things that Jesus mentioned, are not just happening, but are happening on an unprecedented scale, in ONE Generation, which, to the observer, is unmistakable. There were more people killed in the 20th century than in all the wars that took place in all the centuries since Jesus lived on earth. Crime is worse, health problems are worse. Jesus mentioned earthquakes, of which, there are ten times more major earthquakes than in the centuries before this one. Consider what Paul wrote about the end times, 2Timothy 3:1-7, 4:2-5, And 2Peter 3:3-7, what Jesus said, John 16:1-4, Here Jesus said that people would get so far from the truth of God’s word that, when you told them the truth about something they would be so angry, when they thought it was you, who was wrong, when it was really them, and they would kill you thinking that they had done a sacred service for God, when they had killed one of God’s own people.
One more point about, WHEN. This is just speculation!!!
In the Bible, at Genesis 6:3, an amount of years is mentioned by God. He was not actually talking to anyone and there seem to be no reason to put this number in the Bible, it was a time period until the flood of Noah’s day would come. Several times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, the time before the flood was compared to the time before Jesus would return, even the conditions were very much alike, Luke 17:26-30, 21:29-32. The time period could very well also be the same.
In Daniel chapter 4 concerning a Tree, which symbolized The Kingdom of God. This tree was shown to be cut down and banded
With a bronze band for Seven Times, The Times stood for years. There were 360 days to the year in prophecy, so 7X360= 2,520 years. This date started when the Great Temple that Solomon built was destroyed and also the nation of the Jews were taken to Babylon, which symbolized the end of the Kingdom of God on earth. In 607BCE. Add together 2,520BCE to 607BC and the period ends at 1914. This is the date that the Kingdom was born again, with Jesus as the King. The Bible says that Jesus would reign for a while in the middle of his enemies, then he will come to earth, for Judgement, Armageddon. The same generation when Jesus becomes the Messianic King. This puts us very near the end!!! Agape!!!

 

[osgart]

What objective evidence do you have that Jesus existed?

Here it is, its the actor Robert Powell.

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

Timothy Spurlin,
I’m glad you asked that. The Bible tells us that no one knows the day or the hour, when Jesus will return, but we have many clues, as to the period of time when Jesus will return to earth.
The trouble is, we do not want to wait until Jesus returns to earth to start to obey him, because he returns to earth to JUDGE, mankind, John 5:22, Acts 17:31, Matthew 25:31-46, 2Peter 3:1-7.
Consider what the destiny is, of all those who do not KNOW GOD, and who do not OBEY The lord Jesus, 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10.
As to the TIME that Jesus will return to earth. Jesus’ disciples wanted to know that too. Only a few days before Jesus gave his life as a Ransom Sacrifice for us, four of his disciples came to him and asked; When will these things be and what will be the SIGN of your coming and the end of the system or things, Matthew 24:3? Jesus had just told them about the destruction of the temple, and the beautiful buildings around it, being destroyed, they wanted to know when, because they thought it was going to be soon, they did not know that it would be over 2,000 years before Jesus’ return. Jesus started to tell them many things that would happen before his return. The things Jesus mentioned are recorded at Matthew chapter 24, Mark chapter 13, Luke chapter 21. If you read the whole Chapter Matthew 24, Jesus mentions many thing that would happen before he would return, wars, famines, pestilence, earthquakes, signs in the sun and moon.
Now, to some extent all of these things have happened in all the centuries since Jesus was here, so how is this TIME, THIS generation different from all the others, so that anyone could unmistakenly reconize this generation that Jesus was speaking about at Matthew 24:34. A sure sign was mentioned by Jesus, when he said, Learn from the Parable of the Fig Tree. Jesus explained, when you see the tree limbs getting tender and leaves starting to grow, you know that Summer is near. Jesus then said; when you see all the things that Jesus just mentioned happening, you will know that Jesus is near.
The real difference is all of the things that Jesus mentioned, are not just happening, but are happening on an unprecedented scale, in ONE Generation, which, to the observer, is unmistakable. There were more people killed in the 20th century than in all the wars that took place in all the centuries since Jesus lived on earth. Crime is worse, health problems are worse. Jesus mentioned earthquakes, of which, there are ten times more major earthquakes than in the centuries before this one. Consider what Paul wrote about the end times, 2Timothy 3:1-7, 4:2-5, And 2Peter 3:3-7, what Jesus said, John 16:1-4, Here Jesus said that people would get so far from the truth of God’s word that, when you told them the truth about something they would be so angry, when they thought it was you, who was wrong, when it was really them, and they would kill you thinking that they had done a sacred service for God, when they had killed one of God’s own people.
One more point about, WHEN. This is just speculation!!!
In the Bible, at Genesis 6:3, an amount of years is mentioned by God. He was not actually talking to anyone and there seem to be no reason to put this number in the Bible, it was a time period until the flood of Noah’s day would come. Several times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, the time before the flood was compared to the time before Jesus would return, even the conditions were very much alike, Luke 17:26-30, 21:29-32. The time period could very well also be the same.
In Daniel chapter 4 concerning a Tree, which symbolized The Kingdom of God. This tree was shown to be cut down and banded
With a bronze band for Seven Times, The Times stood for years. There were 360 days to the year in prophecy, so 7X360= 2,520 years. This date started when the Great Temple that Solomon built was destroyed and also the nation of the Jews were taken to Babylon, which symbolized the end of the Kingdom of God on earth. In 607BCE. Add together 2,520BCE to 607BC and the period ends at 1914. This is the date that the Kingdom was born again, with Jesus as the King. The Bible says that Jesus would reign for a while in the middle of his enemies, then he will come to earth, for Judgement, Armageddon. The same generation when Jesus becomes the Messianic King. This puts us very near the end!!! Agape!!!

TLDR
The Bible is the claim not the evidence.
What evidence do you have Jesus existed outside of the bible's claims?

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

Timothy Spurlin,
I have not lived long enough to actually KNOW that everything I read about really happened, and especially the way it happened. I doubt that you know, first hand, the everything you believe, you actually saw happen. We all believe much on trust, of what happened before we lived.
The reason I believe everything I read in the Bible is true, is, first of all, no human being could possibly be the Author of a Book, even compared to the Bible. This Book was written by about 40ty men, over the time of 1,600 years. This without disagreements, but all completely Harmonious. This Book, started in 15,13 BCE. By Moses, and completed in 98 AD. and is and always has been the most up to date Book ever written, when most books a obsolete before they get on the Bookshelves. Contained in this book is information that no human living at the time of writing knew. Scientists are amazed as to the accuracy of Genesis, with what they can determine the order of Creation to be completely accurate. Another thing, God had written that EVERYTHING living, bothe animal and plant life would, bring forth only, After its Kind. Today, this is called Prestabilism, by Scientists, and is unbreakable, as scientists have found out by many experiments, both Invitro, and Invivo. The protection written by Moses, in The Law of Moses surprises Scientists, even today. None in the ancient world, knew the safety of hygiene.
Probably, the most astounding things written in the Bible are the Prophecies. Some Prophecies were for short periods of time, while others were hundreds, even for thousands of years. Every one came true exactly as prophesied. With man, this is impossible, only The Almighty God could have a Book written like The Bible. God as even promised to protect His Book from those who would destroy it, or even Corrupt it.
Another thing that is written in God’s Book, is that it is written in a way that the wise and intellectual ones cannot understand it, but Babes can, Luke 10:21. What man could or can write a Book like The Holy Scriptures??? Agape!!!

The bible was written by humans, not god.

 

[12jtartar]

Timothy Spurlin,
If you want to call The Almighty God a lier, that is your business, but not for much longer, Isaiah 40:8, 2Timothy 3:16,17, 1Thessalonians 2:13, 1Peter 1:25, 2Peter 1:20,21. It is true that men actually penned the words, but they wrote what God wanted them to write, and as 2Peter 1:21 says, God’s Holy Spirit guided their writing to make sure it was accurate.
There are two kinds of inspiration, Verbal Inspiration, and Plenary Inspiration. Verbal Inspiration is where God told the Bible the exact words that He wanted written, as was the case when Moses wrote the Ten Commandments. Plenary Inspiration, is when God, or one of His prophets told the Bible writer what to write, but then left it up to the writer, as to the words used, as long as the message was accurate.
Think of this, and please enlighten me as to how Isaiah knew that the earth was circular, when men, at that time had all kinds of myths about the earth, Isaiah 40:22. How did Moses know that the earth was hung upon nothing,in space, when man thought that a giant carried the earth on his back while he was riding on the back of a giant turtle, or a number of other myths, just as far fetched. One funny thing that Moses wrote, has been called a lie for hundreds of years, even down to the late 18 hundreds. Moses sIs that the hare was an unclean animal, because it chewed the cud, but did not split the hoof. Scientists said that the hare did not chew the cud, along with Biologists. Only in the late 18 hundreds did they learn the truth, the hare does chew the cud, but in a different manner that most other animals, they pass food only partly digested, then later they come back to find their pellets, and complete the digestion of their food by chewing this unusual cud. Funny, but how in the world did Moses know this and write in in God’s Holy Book???
How could The Prophet Daniel have wrote so many Prophecies, about 80% of the Book of Daniel was prophecy. Some of these were short, but, as I wrote before, some Prophecies were for thousands of years. Daniels prophecy at Daniel 9:24-27, which told the exact time that Great Temple that Solomon built would be rebuilt, which was the first part of the Prophecy, 7X7, or 49 years, from the time that the Jews were releasted from Babylon, then the person that would amount to 483 years to the Coming of The Messiah, at 33CE. Then it tells about the Messiah being cut off at the middle of the year, which Jesus was, then the. Prophecy to the Jews would extend until the end of the 490th year. After the 490 year the uncircumcised Gentiles would be allowed to become part of the Christian Congregation. This is recorded at 10:1-48.
The Jews living at the time that Jesus was to appear, understood that the Messiah was to come at any minute, when John the Baptist came, so they thought that John the Baptist was the Messiah, Luke 3:15.
This prophecy was written about 500 years before The Messiah, Jesus appeared for Baptism.
Please explain to me how these things would be possible, if God had not made things happen, just as He had His Prophets write. If you know any man that can cause things to happen just as he said they would, Please tell me his Name, so I can worship him. As far as I know no human can take the Name Jehovah, which means, He Causes to Become. God causes His Purpose to Become exactly as He wants it, Isaiah 55:11. No one else can!!!
Agape!!!

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

Timothy Spurlin,
If you want to call The Almighty God a lier, that is your business, but not for much longer, Isaiah 40:8, 2Timothy 3:16,17, 1Thessalonians 2:13, 1Peter 1:25, 2Peter 1:20,21. It is true that men actually penned the words, but they wrote what God wanted them to write, and as 2Peter 1:21 says, God’s Holy Spirit guided their writing to make sure it was accurate.
There are two kinds of inspiration, Verbal Inspiration, and Plenary Inspiration. Verbal Inspiration is where God told the Bible the exact words that He wanted written, as was the case when Moses wrote the Ten Commandments. Plenary Inspiration, is when God, or one of His prophets told the Bible writer what to write, but then left it up to the writer, as to the words used, as long as the message was accurate.
Think of this, and please enlighten me as to how Isaiah knew that the earth was circular, when men, at that time had all kinds of myths about the earth, Isaiah 40:22. How did Moses know that the earth was hung upon nothing,in space, when man thought that a giant carried the earth on his back while he was riding on the back of a giant turtle, or a number of other myths, just as far fetched. One funny thing that Moses wrote, has been called a lie for hundreds of years, even down to the late 18 hundreds. Moses sIs that the hare was an unclean animal, because it chewed the cud, but did not split the hoof. Scientists said that the hare did not chew the cud, along with Biologists. Only in the late 18 hundreds did they learn the truth, the hare does chew the cud, but in a different manner that most other animals, they pass food only partly digested, then later they come back to find their pellets, and complete the digestion of their food by chewing this unusual cud. Funny, but how in the world did Moses know this and write in in God’s Holy Book???
How could The Prophet Daniel have wrote so many Prophecies, about 80% of the Book of Daniel was prophecy. Some of these were short, but, as I wrote before, some Prophecies were for thousands of years. Daniels prophecy at Daniel 9:24-27, which told the exact time that Great Temple that Solomon built would be rebuilt, which was the first part of the Prophecy, 7X7, or 49 years, from the time that the Jews were releasted from Babylon, then the person that would amount to 483 years to the Coming of The Messiah, at 33CE. Then it tells about the Messiah being cut off at the middle of the year, which Jesus was, then the. Prophecy to the Jews would extend until the end of the 490th year. After the 490 year the uncircumcised Gentiles would be allowed to become part of the Christian Congregation. This is recorded at 10:1-48.
The Jews living at the time that Jesus was to appear, understood that the Messiah was to come at any minute, when John the Baptist came, so they thought that John the Baptist was the Messiah, Luke 3:15.
This prophecy was written about 500 years before The Messiah, Jesus appeared for Baptism.
Please explain to me how these things would be possible, if God had not made things happen, just as He had His Prophets write. If you know any man that can cause things to happen just as he said they would, Please tell me his Name, so I can worship him. As far as I know no human can take the Name Jehovah, which means, He Causes to Become. God causes His Purpose to Become exactly as He wants it, Isaiah 55:11. No one else can!!!
Agape!!!

TLDR
Quoting the Bible doesn't prove your god inspired humans to write it.
First you have to prove your god is real.

 

[EtuMalku]

Timothy Spurlin,
If you want to call The Almighty God a lier, that is your business, but not for much longer, Isaiah 40:8, 2Timothy 3:16,17, 1Thessalonians 2:13, 1Peter 1:25, 2Peter 1:20,21. It is true that men actually penned the words, but they wrote what God wanted them to write, and as 2Peter 1:21 says, God’s Holy Spirit guided their writing to make sure it was accurate.
There are two kinds of inspiration, Verbal Inspiration, and Plenary Inspiration. Verbal Inspiration is where God told the Bible the exact words that He wanted written, as was the case when Moses wrote the Ten Commandments. Plenary Inspiration, is when God, or one of His prophets told the Bible writer what to write, but then left it up to the writer, as to the words used, as long as the message was accurate.
Think of this, and please enlighten me as to how Isaiah knew that the earth was circular, when men, at that time had all kinds of myths about the earth, Isaiah 40:22. How did Moses know that the earth was hung upon nothing,in space, when man thought that a giant carried the earth on his back while he was riding on the back of a giant turtle, or a number of other myths, just as far fetched. One funny thing that Moses wrote, has been called a lie for hundreds of years, even down to the late 18 hundreds. Moses sIs that the hare was an unclean animal, because it chewed the cud, but did not split the hoof. Scientists said that the hare did not chew the cud, along with Biologists. Only in the late 18 hundreds did they learn the truth, the hare does chew the cud, but in a different manner that most other animals, they pass food only partly digested, then later they come back to find their pellets, and complete the digestion of their food by chewing this unusual cud. Funny, but how in the world did Moses know this and write in in God’s Holy Book???
How could The Prophet Daniel have wrote so many Prophecies, about 80% of the Book of Daniel was prophecy. Some of these were short, but, as I wrote before, some Prophecies were for thousands of years. Daniels prophecy at Daniel 9:24-27, which told the exact time that Great Temple that Solomon built would be rebuilt, which was the first part of the Prophecy, 7X7, or 49 years, from the time that the Jews were releasted from Babylon, then the person that would amount to 483 years to the Coming of The Messiah, at 33CE. Then it tells about the Messiah being cut off at the middle of the year, which Jesus was, then the. Prophecy to the Jews would extend until the end of the 490th year. After the 490 year the uncircumcised Gentiles would be allowed to become part of the Christian Congregation. This is recorded at 10:1-48.
The Jews living at the time that Jesus was to appear, understood that the Messiah was to come at any minute, when John the Baptist came, so they thought that John the Baptist was the Messiah, Luke 3:15.
This prophecy was written about 500 years before The Messiah, Jesus appeared for Baptism.
Please explain to me how these things would be possible, if God had not made things happen, just as He had His Prophets write. If you know any man that can cause things to happen just as he said they would, Please tell me his Name, so I can worship him. As far as I know no human can take the Name Jehovah, which means, He Causes to Become. God causes His Purpose to Become exactly as He wants it, Isaiah 55:11. No one else can!!!
Agape!!!

Isn't this simply circular logic?

 

[12jtartar]

Isn't this simply circular logic?

EtuMalku,
I don’t understand what I said that could be called circular logic.
There are many things that the Bible mentions as a reason why a person cannot, or will not understand The Holy Scriptures. Please consider these and make sure that none of these apply to you, if you are sincere. One thing is being wicked, are you truely searching for the truthful message sent to us by The Almighty God, consider Daniel 12:10, Isaiah 26:10. Some people are willfully blind, because they do not want to be restricted in anything they want to do, therefore their heart will not let them see, Matthew 13:13-15. Read all of the 13th chapter and consider each of the things mentioned, that keep many people from listening and to keep following God’s word
The Bible tells us that God’s Holy Spirit, is necessary to understand the deep things about God, 1Corinthians 2:10-16.
There are many so called gods, but there is just ONE true God, and His name is Jehovah, in English. It seems to me that God would want any person who wants to KNOW God, and have a personal relationship with Him, would use His Personal, Proper Name, especially when praying to Him, Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13.
The Bible tells us that God does not even listen to prayers from people who have innocent blood on their hands, Isaiah 1:15-20.
The Bible also that anyone turning away , his ear from hearing the law, that his prayer is an abomination to God.
At Proverbs 6:16-19, are written, seven things that God hates. We cannot be perfect, but we should be making an effort to follow God’s wishes, James 1:22.
If we want to live forever in. Paradise earth, we will work on these things that God had written.
The Almighty has proved His love for mankind, by sending His Dearly Loved son into the earth to give his life, as a Corresponding Sacrifice, so that anyone who tries to follow Jesus, can gain all the things that Adam and Eve lost for their offspring, John 3:16, 1Timothy 2:1-6, 1Peter 1:2:21, 2Thessalonians 1:6-10, Revelation 21:1-5. Agape!!!

 

[EtuMalku]

EtuMalku,
I don’t understand what I said that could be called circular logic.
There are many things that the Bible mentions as a reason why a person cannot, or will not understand The Holy Scriptures. Please consider these and make sure that none of these apply to you, if you are sincere. One thing is being wicked, are you truely searching for the truthful message sent to us by The Almighty God, consider Daniel 12:10, Isaiah 26:10. Some people are willfully blind, because they do not want to be restricted in anything they want to do, therefore their heart will not let them see, Matthew 13:13-15. Read all of the 13th chapter and consider each of the things mentioned, that keep many people from listening and to keep following God’s word
The Bible tells us that God’s Holy Spirit, is necessary to understand the deep things about God, 1Corinthians 2:10-16.
There are many so called gods, but there is just ONE true God, and His name is Jehovah, in English. It seems to me that God would want any person who wants to KNOW God, and have a personal relationship with Him, would use His Personal, Proper Name, especially when praying to Him, Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13.
The Bible tells us that God does not even listen to prayers from people who have innocent blood on their hands, Isaiah 1:15-20.
The Bible also that anyone turning away , his ear from hearing the law, that his prayer is an abomination to God.
At Proverbs 6:16-19, are written, seven things that God hates. We cannot be perfect, but we should be making an effort to follow God’s wishes, James 1:22.
If we want to live forever in. Paradise earth, we will work on these things that God had written.
The Almighty has proved His love for mankind, by sending His Dearly Loved son into the earth to give his life, as a Corresponding Sacrifice, so that anyone who tries to follow Jesus, can gain all the things that Adam and Eve lost for their offspring, John 3:16, 1Timothy 2:1-6, 1Peter 1:2:21, 2Thessalonians 1:6-10, Revelation 21:1-5. Agape!!!

The Bible is true! Why do you believe that? Because the Bible tells me so!
Sounds like Circular Logic to me . . .

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations any more until the thousand years were ended.

I feel sorry for magic serpents everywhere, always getting the shaft from racist gods.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Probably I don't understand what you are saying TagliatelliMonster.

Just look up the difference between "objective" and "subjective".

If you can't understand how putting your finger into a glass of water to "guess" the tempurature thereof is a subjective measurement as opposed to putting a calibrated thermometer into the water and then just read the tempurator of off it as being an objective measurement.... Then I honestly don't know what to tell you to make you understand.

As regard the question, it does not focus on Boeing, it involved a robot, and it can be any robot - no brand name; Just rivets, screws, and other components.
You know it's designed by the parts, being in place, at the precise location, to allow for those parts to function, in a particular way, to a particular end, or goal.
That's a way you tell design. Correct?

Half correct.
You don't recognise the "design" per say as a result of location of parts etc.
You actually recognise the signs of manufacturing instead.
Indeed: the use of screws, bolts, rivets, plastics, wiring, etc. And many of those in materials that don't even occur in nature, but which have to be manufactured.

What you recognise is not design but MANUFACTURING instead.

And you don't recognise that by the blueprints or function of the object. You recognise that by the material used and the way it has been put together. And because you understand the processes involved (that humans make plastics and screws and bolts and.... and how all are used to manufacture mechanical devices and / or objects used for whatever).

Things like humans and cats and trees show NONE of such properties or parts. NONE.

We are not made from some unnatural, or even rare, materials.
We don't have company logo's on our bodies.
We don't have the equivalent of "made in taiwan" encrypted into our DNA.
And EVERYTHING about biology screams that we have evolved from common ancestors.

So not only is there NO evidence in support of this... all the evidence we actually DO have, points in the opposite direction.

So therefore, the verification of the testimony of the witnesses, may be in harmony with objective evidence.

Or it may not be.

What therefore, would the objective evidence be, in the case of the witnesses testimony in the Bible?

Why are you asking me?
It's not my job to come up with objective evidence to support the bible.

Also, the bible makes such a wide variety of (wild) claims, you'ld have to be more specific.
Because each claim requires it's own portion of supporting evidence. Or did you think that supporting one thing in the bible would automagically support the entire bible?

I don't believe you can rightly, and verifiable refer to a claim, as a belief.

I just explained in that very quote how claims and beliefs go hand in hand.
To believe requires a claim to be believed.
To make a claim, implies belief in said claim - why else would you make the claim.

You can't have one without the other. Seems extremely obvious...........................

"I believe god is real" includes the claim "god is real".
The claim "god is real" implies belief in said claim.

How could you have one without the other?
How can you believe something, if there is no claim about that something to be believed????

You require an object for your belief. That object is always reducable to a claim. Always.

Thus highlighting my point about the absurdity of people believing they have objective evidence, even though using faulty tools - in other words inaccurate measuring instruments.

The thing about objective evidence, is that it can be verified by other people.
And when that happens, faulty use of instruments will yield different results.
When it comes to scientific work, methods etc are described in detail. During review and repeats, faulty use of instruments will be apparant.

A nice example is an experiment in Zwitzerland and Itally a few years ago. They shot neutrino's from Zwitzerland to Italy and to their surprise, the neutrino's arrived "too soon" in Italy. Researchers were baffled and asked if they should question relativity.

After review, it turned out that they made quite an embarassing mistake. While calculating the time the neutrino's needed to arrive at their destination...... they forgot to take into account the relativity of time.
So faulty use of instruments yielded faulty results.

That's the thing about objective investigation methods..... you an repeat them and double check results. Objectively.

It appears to me, you misunderstood me.
I'm not saying that it has been demonstrated. Note the word claim.
To demonstrate, is to show. To claim, is to say. Both are different, as I am sure you are aware.

The ability of using DNA to identify individuals, bloodlines, infer familial ties, etc is very well demonstrated.

 

[sooda]

Timothy Spurlin,
If you want to call The Almighty God a lier, that is your business, but not for much longer, Isaiah 40:8, 2Timothy 3:16,17, 1Thessalonians 2:13, 1Peter 1:25, 2Peter 1:20,21. It is true that men actually penned the words, but they wrote what God wanted them to write, and as 2Peter 1:21 says, God’s Holy Spirit guided their writing to make sure it was accurate.
There are two kinds of inspiration, Verbal Inspiration, and Plenary Inspiration. Verbal Inspiration is where God told the Bible the exact words that He wanted written, as was the case when Moses wrote the Ten Commandments. Plenary Inspiration, is when God, or one of His prophets told the Bible writer what to write, but then left it up to the writer, as to the words used, as long as the message was accurate.
Think of this, and please enlighten me as to how Isaiah knew that the earth was circular, when men, at that time had all kinds of myths about the earth, Isaiah 40:22. How did Moses know that the earth was hung upon nothing,in space, when man thought that a giant carried the earth on his back while he was riding on the back of a giant turtle, or a number of other myths, just as far fetched. One funny thing that Moses wrote, has been called a lie for hundreds of years, even down to the late 18 hundreds. Moses sIs that the hare was an unclean animal, because it chewed the cud, but did not split the hoof. Scientists said that the hare did not chew the cud, along with Biologists. Only in the late 18 hundreds did they learn the truth, the hare does chew the cud, but in a different manner that most other animals, they pass food only partly digested, then later they come back to find their pellets, and complete the digestion of their food by chewing this unusual cud. Funny, but how in the world did Moses know this and write in in God’s Holy Book???
How could The Prophet Daniel have wrote so many Prophecies, about 80% of the Book of Daniel was prophecy. Some of these were short, but, as I wrote before, some Prophecies were for thousands of years. Daniels prophecy at Daniel 9:24-27, which told the exact time that Great Temple that Solomon built would be rebuilt, which was the first part of the Prophecy, 7X7, or 49 years, from the time that the Jews were releasted from Babylon, then the person that would amount to 483 years to the Coming of The Messiah, at 33CE. Then it tells about the Messiah being cut off at the middle of the year, which Jesus was, then the. Prophecy to the Jews would extend until the end of the 490th year. After the 490 year the uncircumcised Gentiles would be allowed to become part of the Christian Congregation. This is recorded at 10:1-48.
The Jews living at the time that Jesus was to appear, understood that the Messiah was to come at any minute, when John the Baptist came, so they thought that John the Baptist was the Messiah, Luke 3:15.
This prophecy was written about 500 years before The Messiah, Jesus appeared for Baptism.
Please explain to me how these things would be possible, if God had not made things happen, just as He had His Prophets write. If you know any man that can cause things to happen just as he said they would, Please tell me his Name, so I can worship him. As far as I know no human can take the Name Jehovah, which means, He Causes to Become. God causes His Purpose to Become exactly as He wants it, Isaiah 55:11. No one else can!!!
Agape!!!

There was no Daniel. Danel was a character in the writings of the North Coast Canaanites 1500 years earlier that the Hebrews borrowed and added to for a period of 600 years. He wrote about Antiochus IV Epighanes not Jesus.

 

[nPeace]

Just look up the difference between "objective" and "subjective".

I don't need to.

If you can't understand how putting your finger into a glass of water to "guess" the tempurature thereof is a subjective measurement as opposed to putting a calibrated thermometer into the water and then just read the tempurator of off it as being an objective measurement.... Then I honestly don't know what to tell you to make you understand.

I never suggested that. So I don't know why you are now making it up.

Recall, you said...
Consider measuring the tempurature of a glass of water.
Subjective would be someone putting their finger in it and then claiming hot or cold.
Objective would be putting a thermometer in it.

Measuring temperature is not about determining whether something is hot or cold. I challenged your statement because you opened the door to be challenged I knew I could not possibly lose the argument, unless during the course, you corrected it. You didn't.
Are you doing that now?

I never said anything about guessing the temperature with a finger.
I confirmed that..
I'm being extreme? Here I am, thinking of being able to use my finger to detect heat and cold, and you are thinking about a thermometer. It seems like you want to set the bar for a home run. If objective evidence is only useful with specific situations, then it seems objective evidence is subjective... which renders it useless.
Look at posts #147-151

Half correct.
You don't recognise the "design" per say as a result of location of parts etc.
You actually recognise the signs of manufacturing instead.
Indeed: the use of screws, bolts, rivets, plastics, wiring, etc. And many of those in materials that don't even occur in nature, but which have to be manufactured.

What you recognise is not design but MANUFACTURING instead.

And you don't recognise that by the blueprints or function of the object. You recognise that by the material used and the way it has been put together. And because you understand the processes involved (that humans make plastics and screws and bolts and.... and how all are used to manufacture mechanical devices and / or objects used for whatever).

Things like humans and cats and trees show NONE of such properties or parts. NONE.

We are not made from some unnatural, or even rare, materials.
We don't have company logo's on our bodies.
We don't have the equivalent of "made in taiwan" encrypted into our DNA.
And EVERYTHING about biology screams that we have evolved from common ancestors.

So not only is there NO evidence in support of this... all the evidence we actually DO have, points in the opposite direction.

Design is not about materials, and what they are made of, or not made of, and if it has a logo, or company name.
Design involves, as I said, those parts (whatever material) being assembled in a particular, or precise location, to allow for a particular function, in order to reach a particular goal, or purpose.

Every evolutionist makes the claim you do, but that's all it is - a claim. I can make many of those as well.

Or it may not be.


Why are you asking me?
It's not my job to come up with objective evidence to support the bible.

Also, the bible makes such a wide variety of (wild) claims, you'ld have to be more specific.
Because each claim requires it's own portion of supporting evidence. Or did you think that supporting one thing in the bible would automagically support the entire bible?

No problem. I won't ask again.

The objective evidence is this...
It requires intelligence to give information containing instructions for designed objects.
It requires intelligent agents to construct a designed object.
For every cause there is an effect.

The testimony of the witnesses are in line with the objective evidence.
Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but the one who constructed all things is God.

I just explained in that very quote how claims and beliefs go hand in hand.
To believe requires a claim to be believed.
To make a claim, implies belief in said claim - why else would you make the claim.

You can't have one without the other. Seems extremely obvious...........................

"I believe god is real" includes the claim "god is real".
The claim "god is real" implies belief in said claim.

How could you have one without the other?
How can you believe something, if there is no claim about that something to be believed????

You require an object for your belief. That object is always reducable to a claim. Always.

How so?
If I claim that a mouse climbed onto the table, and ate the cheese, how is that a belief?
You may call it a belief, but just because you do, does not make it such. It is a claim that is true, whether you accept it or not. All that's left, is for me to prove it... but how can I? I did not have a CCTV running in my kitchen.

However, if there were more witnesses, that objective opinion is not only true, but verified.
It may not be believed by you.

The thing about objective evidence, is that it can be verified by other people.
And when that happens, faulty use of instruments will yield different results.
When it comes to scientific work, methods etc are described in detail. During review and repeats, faulty use of instruments will be apparant.

A nice example is an experiment in Zwitzerland and Itally a few years ago. They shot neutrino's from Zwitzerland to Italy and to their surprise, the neutrino's arrived "too soon" in Italy. Researchers were baffled and asked if they should question relativity.

After review, it turned out that they made quite an embarassing mistake. While calculating the time the neutrino's needed to arrive at their destination...... they forgot to take into account the relativity of time.
So faulty use of instruments yielded faulty results.

That's the thing about objective investigation methods..... you an repeat them and double check results. Objectively.

You can also repeat the same mistake, because of assuming that you have corrected the mistake, when you only partly fixed it.
Oftentimes, this is due to the limited effectiveness of the method, and the reliance on limited abilities to reach an objective conclusion.
Inaccuracies in radiocarbon dating
Unexpected errors affect dating techniques

The ability of using DNA to identify individuals, bloodlines, infer familial ties, etc is very well demonstrated.

So, what does DNA tell you? It doesn't tell you, that you came from a munkey, or to be more precise, that you are a fish, or worm.

Yes. It tells you that you have human ancestors, but we already knew that, didn't we?
Are you descended from royalty? Six things to consider
“DNA testing only reveals a general ethnic breakdown that changes over time, as the science becomes further refined,” says Joshua Taylor, president of the New York Genealogical & Biographical Society. It “might identify that two individuals share a common ancestor within a certain number of generations, but research is still needed to identify who that common ancestor might be.”

And ancestral math is messy. The number of ancestors we have increases exponentially, not linearly — more like a meshed web than a branched family tree, says the geneticist Adam Rutherford. If we went back a thousand years, each of us would have over a trillion direct ancestors, which is more than all the humans who have ever lived. This paradox exists because, as Rutherford writes: “Pedigrees begin to fold in on themselves a few generations back.” Meaning “you can be, and in fact are, descended from the same individual many times over”.

Throw in other factors that enlarge and complicate lineage – invasions and migrations, wars and revolutions – and you can see that humanity is indeed a web of overlapping and enmeshed networks of descent.

 

[JJ50]

As the Biblical god is supposed to have created everything it created dear old Satan as well. So the blame for human wickedness is down to it.

 

[Ellen Brown]

As the Biblical god is supposed to have created everything it created dear old Satan as well. So the blame for human wickedness is down to it.

Sigh. I wish you people would just study a little before you try to think. God created everything and everyone. satan was cast down to earth, and is in fact the brother of Jesus the Christ. At the judgment satan will be destroyed in hell. The reason it is all taking so long is that as a father, God wants to give satan chance to repent.

 

[sooda]

Sigh. I wish you people would just study a little before you try to think. God created everything and everyone. satan was cast down to earth, and is in fact the brother of Jesus the Christ. At the judgment satan will be destroyed in hell. The reason it is all taking so long is that as a father, God wants to give satan chance to repent.

Satan isn't the brother of Jesus.

 

[sooda]

The Binding, Release & Destruction of Satan

Thus, the Abyss also = the ancient land of Judea where this judgment took place (as we see in Rev 9:1 and will demonstrate in the next few paragraphs because of the terminology John uses to show where this messenger is dispatched to perform the war authority)

There is a great chain (symbolic for the war power) given to this messenger (angel) of war to bind this adversary.

Lloyd Dale writes: “The angel (messenger) that comes down from heaven, having the key of the Bottomless pit” is Caesar Titus (the title by which Josephus identified the Roman general Titus). In chapter 9 Vespasian was given the key to the bottomless pit by Yahweh through Nero. Also in Rev 9:11 Vespasian is identified as “the messenger of the bottomless pit.” Thus this key was simply transferred to Titus when the new Caesar, Vespasian established Titus as the general of the Roman legions in Judaea, and ordered his son Titus to prosecute the war with the Jews to the bitter end.”

 

[sooda]

In Psa 36:6 it says God’s judgment is a great deep (Heb. tehome Grk. abbusos) or Abyss.

Paul uses the Abyss as “a metaphor for the grave” in Rom 10:7 reinforcing our understanding of God’s judgment = the Abyss. We know this for certain because Paul knew that the body of Jesus was not to see decay (corruption, Psa 16:10 cf. Act 2:22-32 ). Death and the grave are the products of God’s judgment upon man as a result of Adam’s sin in the garden.

In the following passages and many others Jesus clearly states that the wrath of Yahweh would be poured out upon the apostate house of Judah in the first century generation.

This was God’s judgment (the Abyss) barring the Jews from Judea (the Abyss) for a [figurative] thousand years so they could not deceive the nations (Rev 20:3 ) during this long period.

Luke 19:41-44 (comments and emphasis added) And when He was come near, he beheld the city (Jerusalem), and wept over it, Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things [which belong] unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

For the days (of justice) shall come upon thee, that thine enemies (the Roman soldiers) shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation (the day of wrath).

The Binding, Release & Destruction of Satan

 

[JJ50]

Sigh. I wish you people would just study a little before you try to think. God created everything and everyone. satan was cast down to earth, and is in fact the brother of Jesus the Christ. At the judgment satan will be destroyed in hell. The reason it is all taking so long is that as a father, God wants to give satan chance to repent.

You are making a statement for which you have no evidence whatsoever!