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The Brutality of Vikings

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
Seems a common notion, but then was any culture in our history any less brutal than they?

Sometimes I can identify them as more refined than other cultures, but not without severity in thier ways.

Can we make some comparisons of common understandings between cultures as they relate to the "brutality" of ??????
I just want to say that we here in the united states of America do not tolerate brutality. We have gone out of our way to help Educate the Native Americans to see the errors of their way, gently guided them into the correct religion, and took dominion of the land to protect their land for them. We even saved so many Africans from their primitive ways and gave them the education an tools to make something of themselves. All of this from one nation under God totally indivisible. It is true that we had no choice but to incinerate two Japanese cities to help them see what a kind and benevolent country we are. Absolutely no brutality whatsoever here in this God chosen country of America.
 
My post


Note the bold bit. Reference to the Viking era

Your post


My next post



Your next post


1500s to 1720 is decidedly outside the dates of the Viking era

Geeze, if that is seriously your argument, then it might be best to put you on ignore so I don’t disturb you with something you don’t want to know.

Sheesh!
 

Wu Wei

ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
Geeze, if that is seriously your argument, then it might be best to put you on ignore so I don’t disturb you with something you don’t want to know.

Sheesh!
Interesting, you don’t take being proven wrong well do you

As far as the ignore threat goes, to quote Brer Rabbit…. Please oh please don’t throw me into the briar patch
 

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Why can’t folks celebrate their cultures?
As long as they don't hurt others and part of that "hurting" is oftentimes fear.

The Confederate statues, for many, were a misdirected effort to remember the fallen, to remember the devastating times, just as the Confederate flag was "to remember" with pride and regret. Unfortunately the pride part became a no-no, so much has been, and will continue to be lost.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Yeah, really.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

And my apologies, sometimes I forget that you tend to interpret disagreement as an attack.

Yes the Franks had already produced Charlemagne but lots of Europe was still like post-Rome Briton with power vacuums being filled

Like where for instance?
amd especially stabilized, from the decline of the Roman Empire and collapse and demise of the Western Roman Empire.

Which occurred in the 5th century. The Vikings didn't really come into their own until around the 9th century.

A lot happened in the 400 years in between. Mainly the rise and spread of Islam which necessitated a consolidation of the christian powers in Europe. By that time marauding bands of Frank's, Goths, Celts, etc. acting independently and attacking their neighbors without going through proper channels were already a part of distant history.


And of course these larger states, such as England and France, would now and then get riled up bad and things would look like an episode of Game of Thrones.

But by that time England and France were a collection of established kingdoms which, as I mentioned in my previous post, necessitated going through a central authority before waging war with or conducting raids on your neighbors.

Tribes, clans, Earldoms, Dukedoms, weren't free to act on their own initiative by that time. Everybody had to go through their king or emperor, and kings and emperors typically needed permission from the Pope.
Plus I gave you examples of people who engaged in such behaviors during the Middle Ages.

The earlier Middle ages yes, between the fall of Rome and the emergence of the Caliphate. But we're talking about the Vikings so we're dealing with a timeline at least a hundred years later then the end of that era.
True, they really were a lot like us back then, but the back then also the hot heads, brutes and fighters who mostly won tended to get further ahead ahead because the possessions on those you killed in battle were loot, and even then and now we like winners who can elevate our status and better our position so these sorts of violent types also got lots of people turning to them as their loaf guardian/hlaford (our word for lord) was far better than they'd get elsewhere.

They very much were. They went to Briton to take it all over

The Vikings tried to conquer Britain? When was this? If you're talking about the Norman invasion I think your stretching things a bit. Normans were descended from Vikings, but we're talking about the Vikings themselves, not their descendants.
They went to France, settled, and became the Normans.

Which I suppose answers my question.
And largely they did have histories with eachother. The Great Heathen Army didn't just appear out of nowhere. There was history on top of history on top of history because even back then there were lots of us getting around and mingling with others.

But, again, the raids weren't usually motivated by history, they were motivated by opportunity.
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
Vikings were basically just raiding parties. They made people miserable and very dead. It's alright to enjoy fictional stuff. As long as you remember the actual historical vikings were as scummy and cruel as the rest of ye olde humanity.
It is hard for us to understand the violence involved in the Viking raids and easy to glorify some of it in fiction but even easier to make judgments against them and the Norse people at the time who were struggling to survive. This is no different that the brutality of Romans as the expanded their colonial reach to extract what they wanted from the rest of Europe yet there are so many that glorify Rome and marvel at the amazing tactical skills of their military leaders. Their conquest of the rest of Europe was equally brutal and actually more exploitive that the Vikings who often did not stay to subjugate the people. What is harder is to see this same mindset in the corporate minds of our modern society. They do not go out and kill directly but are using the same exploitive framework to extract from world around and protected by a fictional illusion of they are doing it for you. In the end their consumptive behavior causes a type of death in our world.

Ok this was a rant sorry.
 
As long as they don't hurt others and part of that "hurting" is oftentimes fear.

The Confederate statues, for many, were a misdirected effort to remember the fallen, to remember the devastating times, just as the Confederate flag was "to remember" with pride and regret. Unfortunately the pride part became a no-no, so much has been, and will continue to be lost.

Unfortunately, there’s a lot of intentional disinformation out there telling folks that we’re out to take their confederate flags that covered their great grandfather’s casket.

See the dude on the horse?

His statue got pulled down by some indigenous folks in Cauca who held a trial first.

I think he was one if the three largest slavemasters in Cauca, if I recall correctly.

son del tuno-popayán​

 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The Vikings tried to conquer Britain? When was this?
Clearly this point in history is a weak point if yours. You should spend a few hours on Wiki learning of topics such as Daneland, Jorvick, Alfred the Great and the Great Heathen Army because you're starting to sound like a YEC.
And, yes, in the mid to late 9th century the Great Heathen Army invaded and damn near conquered the whole of Briton.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Clearly this point in history is a weak point if yours. You should spend a few hours on Wiki learning of topics such as Daneland, Jorvick, Alfred the Great and the Great Heathen Army because you're starting to sound like a YEC.

And you still sound like YOU. :D
And, yes, in the mid to late 9th century the Great Heathen Army invaded and damn near conquered the whole of Briton.
Ah, OK. Thanks for the enlightenment, and points for disproving one of my more minor points (I should probably watch that series again myself).
I got bored with it after Ragnar was written out)
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The Confederate statues, for many, were a misdirected effort to remember the fallen, to remember the devastating times,
The huge vast majority went up during the Civil Rights Era amd other moments when black people were gaining legal protections and equality.
Robert E Lee himself was against being made into a statue and didn't want that tragic time celebrated or honored.
just as the Confederate flag was "to remember" with pride and regret. Unfortunately the pride part became a no-no, so much has been, and will continue to be lost
No, the "Confederate flag" often times reveals a lack of historic knowledge because that is not the Stars and Bars Confederate flag. What tons of people call the Confederate flag is a Johnny Come Lately that came about because on tue battlefield it was too hard to tell the real Stars and Bars apart from the Stars and Stripes.
Ultimately, the flag widely flown today is the flag of traitors who opened fire against their country for the cause of preserving slavery.
 

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
The huge vast majority went up during the Civil Rights Era amd other moments when black people were gaining legal protections and equality.
Actually they went up in the early 1900s, many financed by the Daughters of the Confederacy, and fueled the Jim Crow era that lasted until the Civil Rights Movement took hold. Blacks had tremendous legal protections and rights after Appomattox, however the "fear tactics" soon swept the nation, and not just the south. Then new laws began being installed to placate, Jim Crow Laws, and the Civil Rights Movement rightfully was born.
Robert E Lee himself was against being made into a statue and didn't want that tragic time celebrated or honored.
True enough. He was made enough of a martyr by having his property seized and turned into a cemetery. Of course he didn't believe in "the cause" to begin with, but he believed in Virginia, his home.
No, the "Confederate flag" often times reveals a lack of historic knowledge because that is not the Stars and Bars Confederate flag. What tons of people call the Confederate flag is a Johnny Come Lately that came about because on tue battlefield it was too hard to tell the real Stars and Bars apart from the Stars and Stripes.
Ultimately, the flag widely flown today is the flag of traitors who opened fire against their country for the cause of preserving slavery.
The battle flag has been the memorial flag of the South's personal loss, recognizing those who gave their lives, oftentimes against their wishes. That's a huge part of history that is neglected. The South was very divided, but as always, those with money, power, and influence made the decisions, including the "forced enlistments." And this wasn't the lawful force of a draft board. This was enlistment at gunpoint where the alternative was a noose. In the words of one of my ancestors who chose enlisting with the Union, "It was only a matter of time before the planters made slaves of us all." He survived the war, but lost his home by the side he fought for.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
I addressed only those who expressed
Viking heritage pride.
Aye .. and they should take great pride in such Heritage ... a people who accomplished many things ... Would be pure unadulterated Ethnocentric nonsense to let partaking in a custom universal at that time get in the way of such pride... ..

Thats right Revol --- new word alert .. from the field of Anthropology .. the study of Anthropo .. "Ethnocentrism" :)
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
The Vikings tried to conquer Britain? When was this? If you're talking about the Norman invasion I think your stretching things a bit. Normans were descended from Vikings, but we're talking about the Vikings themselves, not their descendants.

"Viking activity in the British Isles occurred during the Early Middle Ages, the 8th to the 11th centuries CE, when Scandinavians travelled to the British Isles to raid, conquer, settle and trade."

Afaik conquering was on the menu.


"In the last decade of the eighth century, Viking raiders sacked several Christian monasteries in northern Britain, and over the next three centuries they launched increasingly large scale invasions and settled in many areas, especially in eastern Britain and Ireland, the islands north and west of Scotland and the Isle of Man."
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
"Viking activity in the British Isles occurred during the Early Middle Ages, the 8th to the 11th centuries CE, when Scandinavians travelled to the British Isles to raid, conquer, settle and trade."

Afaik conquering was on the menu.


"In the last decade of the eighth century, Viking raiders sacked several Christian monasteries in northern Britain, and over the next three centuries they launched increasingly large scale invasions and settled in many areas, especially in eastern Britain and Ireland, the islands north and west of Scotland and the Isle of Man."
I'm watching a documentary about that as we speak:

 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I only used one big word friend .. and warned that it was coming "Ethnocentrism" . What is it you didn't understand about slavery being pretty much universal during the days of the Vikings ?
Using a big word doesn't make your
post sophisticated. That would require
using words in a particular order to
make illuminating statements.
 
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