The chances of being right when it comes to religion.

[Nigel]

In science theories sort of maybe describe reality but they do not prove it. You need to have faith in theories. However because they give us a model that we can use to attempt to understand "our" world, they are still useful. God/s, religion, rituals, scriptures are all theoretical and because they help the practitioner understand "their" world, they are all useful. Even your skepticism is a god. It requires faith in your personal / (socially engineered) reality as it presents itself. In other words prove to yourself that I exist and I will show you god.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The subject of this thread is "The chances of being right when it comes to religion."

In this context, I can only define "religion" as that to which I commit myself without the benefit of proof. After all, if I had proof, I wouldn't need religion. I believe, for example, in gravity, because I have the proof of it every day -- and while I wouldn't tempt it, I also don't worship it.

But as to the chances of being right in believing anything at all for which there is no convincing evidence -- in my estimation, given the astronomical (perhaps infinite) number of things that "might be true," I would suppose that your chances or being right are pretty much exactly zero.

 

[InChrist]

So tell me , why would you think your particular interpretation of the spiritual is correct?

I think the Creator God, as an eternal Being outside of time, alone has the capacity to accurately foretell future events and He has done so concerning many major historical events especially about the Messiah/Savior and revolving around the nation of Israel so that humanity knows He is God and the biblical scriptures are His words of revelation to humanity.

"The Bible declares that the prophecies it provides concerning Israel supply the irrefutable evidence for God's existence—and for the fact that He has a purpose for mankind. History is not merely happenstance. It is going somewhere. There is a plan. Biblical prophecies declare it irrefutably.

Prophecy, which reveals God's plan in advance, is the missing element in all sacred scriptures of the world's religions, because false gods cannot provide it. Prophecy is not to be found in the Koran, the Hindu Vedas, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Book of Mormon, the sayings of Buddha, the writings of Mary Baker Eddy. In contrast, prophecy comprises about 30 percent of the Bible.

Significantly, the God of the Bible identifies Himself as the One who accurately foretells the future and makes certain that it happens as He said it would. In fact, God points to prophecy as the irrefutable evidence of His existence and the authenticity of His Word: "For I am God, and there is none else. ...Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, my counsel shall stand..." (Isa:46:9-10)."
The God of Prophecy

"Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells specific events-in detail-many years, sometimes centuries, before they occur. Approximately 2,500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2,000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors."
Reasons To Believe : Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible

 

[LuisDantas]

Didn't say they did. At least I don't think I did.

Not in quite those words, but you keep saying that you want some sort of external validation.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

Not in quite those words, but you keep saying that you want some sort of external validation.

I want a spirituality that at least has a little evidence behind it. For me.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

Drear Moderators;

I know this post does not belong here but I have no other place to make this post. I grew up with the KJV Bible and have never read the Torah and have little to no knowledge of Judaism. For this reason I have found myself a bit short sighted concerning the Torah or Judaism. I have made an attempt to visit a forum topic covering this topic and have been barred from doing so. As a stranger to this topic how can I learn about this topic if I am barred from the very topics I am trying to learn?

I was circumcised when I was a baby, can this fact open the closed door so that I may see what is inside?

Why don't you make a thread?

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

I think the Creator God, as an eternal Being outside of time, alone has the capacity to accurately foretell future events and He has done so concerning many major historical events especially about the Messiah/Savior and revolving around the nation of Israel so that humanity knows He is God and the biblical scriptures are His words of revelation to humanity.

"The Bible declares that the prophecies it provides concerning Israel supply the irrefutable evidence for God's existence—and for the fact that He has a purpose for mankind. History is not merely happenstance. It is going somewhere. There is a plan. Biblical prophecies declare it irrefutably.

Prophecy, which reveals God's plan in advance, is the missing element in all sacred scriptures of the world's religions, because false gods cannot provide it. Prophecy is not to be found in the Koran, the Hindu Vedas, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Book of Mormon, the sayings of Buddha, the writings of Mary Baker Eddy. In contrast, prophecy comprises about 30 percent of the Bible.

Significantly, the God of the Bible identifies Himself as the One who accurately foretells the future and makes certain that it happens as He said it would. In fact, God points to prophecy as the irrefutable evidence of His existence and the authenticity of His Word: "For I am God, and there is none else. ...Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, my counsel shall stand..." (Isa:46:9-10)."
The God of Prophecy

"Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells specific events-in detail-many years, sometimes centuries, before they occur. Approximately 2,500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2,000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors."
Reasons To Believe : Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible

I'd be lying if I said I found this even the tiniest bit convincing.

 

[james dixon]

Why don't you make a thread?

I do not want to make a thread about Judaism or the Torah. I have nothing to contribute to these discussions. It seems I am going about this in the wrong way. If I am barred from these sites then how can I learn from what is said in these forums?

Then again maybe it is best that I do not learn more and just accept my conceptual ideas about this topic and move on. Having said that I would rather not go there if it could cause my deletion form this site. For this reason I will not try to go there again.'

End of topic -

 

[LuisDantas]

I want a spirituality that at least has a little evidence behind it. For me.

Why would that be of importance?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

one [way] is simply that you feel a connection to a certain belief therefore you follow said belief. You seek out the gods you feel a connection to and go from there.

Yes, this would have no bearing on it "being right", in an objective sense.

I propose that a person should consider, not what they feel right about, but to ask what God would approve of?

Then you have reason. Some people try to reason out their beliefs and make sure they make sense.

Well, I think this has value! If God is our Creator and a perfect Intelligent Being, and we were made in His image, then accurate beliefs about Him should make sense to us; be reasonable to us.

(For example, saying "God is love", but then teaching that He burns people forever, doesn't make sense. Therefore, that would be a false teaching.)

I've heard just about every reason in the book now I think or at least a good portion of them

How about this one: in your view, would a person who kills another person, as opposed to someone who values life and refuses to kill another ....which one to you would be acceptable to the LifeGiver?

Besides individuals, are there any religions that promote this view, valuing human life over barriers -- like racial, cultural, even national -- which may foster hatred for others?

Interesting that Jesus said his followers would be ID'd, not by their tenets necessarily, but by their actions: by their love for each other (John 13:34-35). And others: even their enemies would experience the difference! (Matthew 5:43-44) Regardless of national or political persuasion. -- John 17:16; 1 John 5:3

Now, look for religions that fit these parameters!

So-long, my cousin.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Lets pretend all religions are equally possibly correct. If one goes by nothing but the numbers the chance of you being correct are 1 in 19 if you count the large religions of the world . From there if you add in religious sects and dead religions the chance goes down even lower.

So how do you figure which religion is the correct one if there is indeed a correct one?

I've seen people approach this issue in two different ways, one is simply that you feel a connection to a certain belief therefore you follow said belief. You seek out the gods you feel a connection to and go from there. Of course there is one big problem with this being that you relied on feelings to get you here.

You can feel a lot of things but that doesn't make them valid. You may feel it is for instance racist to criticize Judaism or Israel but that doesn't mean it is actually racist to do so. You may feel something is a religious experience but is in fact perfectly mundane. Mental gymnastics can only take you so far with your feelings.

Then you have reason. Some people try to reason out their beliefs and make sure they make sense. They'll argue and defend their beliefs to the very bitter end in some cases. Over the years they may even get very good at this.

Of course a problem arises here as well. You can not demonstrate that a god and even more painfully your own god/gods exist. You can not prove it and I know you can't because people have been trying for centuries now, millennia even and have as of yet come up with nothing.

"Ah ha!" they may say "But I can give you reasons it seems plausible that God exists!" There is usually a note of excitement among the younger apologists when they say this. The older ones may or may not even bother.

The issue here seems obvious to me. Any reason you could give still has to be taken with a certain measure of faith. The reason sometimes given is that life Is too complex to come from nothing. This of course ignores evolution but even then it's not really an argument for anything but a deistic god now is it?

I've heard just about every reason in the book now I think or at least a good portion of them. If you have another feel free to apply it here if you wish. I can't say I don't listen for good reasons even today.

In the end when I stop and think about it, the lack of evidence and the sheer number of religions makes it neigh unto impossible to determine what religion could be right. Of course many don't claim the exclusivity to the truth that others do but this is of little consequence.

So tell me , why would you think your particular interpretation of the spiritual is correct?

God isn't passive in the process... so the chances of knowing God when God draws you with the coords of love.... it's 100% He's quite persuasive that way

Hosea and his family, a portrait of grace

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

Why would that be of importance?

....

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

Yes, this would have no bearing on it "being right", in an objective sense.

I propose that a person should consider, not what they feel right about, but to ask what God would approve of?




Well, I think this has value! If God is our Creator and a perfect Intelligent Being, and we were made in His image, then accurate beliefs about Him should make sense to us; be reasonable to us.

(For example, saying "God is love", but then teaching that He burns people forever, doesn't make sense. Therefore, that would be a false teaching.)



How about this one: in your view, would a person who kills another person, as opposed to someone who values life and refuses to kill another ....which one to you would be acceptable to the LifeGiver?

Besides individuals, are there any religions that promote this view, valuing human life over barriers -- like racial, cultural, even national -- which may foster hatred for others?

Interesting that Jesus said his followers would be ID'd, not by their tenets necessarily, but by their actions: by their love for each other (John 13:34-35). And others: even their enemies would experience the difference! (Matthew 5:43-44) Regardless of national or political persuasion. -- John 17:16; 1 John 5:3

Now, look for religions that fit these parameters!

So-long, my cousin.

I feel like any God sufficiently powerful enough to be called the God of the bible wouldn't care about human life in the slightest.

 

[Native]

If one take the approach that all religions and cultures have its Stories of Creation, we can conclude that these religious stories counts equally for all people all over the world.

We all live on the same planet Earth, in the same Solar System, in the same Milky Way galaxy and in the same local part of the observable Universe. This is the NATURAL explanation of the religious concept.

This is our common story of creation and this can only be distorted by people who interpretate the stories thrugh their narrow "ego-mind filters" which claims their local religion to be the most superior.

 

[LuisDantas]

I feel like any God sufficiently powerful enough to be called the God of the bible wouldn't care about human life in the slightest.

Then he would not be much of a god, now would he?

 

[Underhill]

Lets pretend all religions are equally possibly correct. If one goes by nothing but the numbers the chance of you being correct are 1 in 19 if you count the large religions of the world . From there if you add in religious sects and dead religions the chance goes down even lower.

So how do you figure which religion is the correct one if there is indeed a correct one?

I've seen people approach this issue in two different ways, one is simply that you feel a connection to a certain belief therefore you follow said belief. You seek out the gods you feel a connection to and go from there. Of course there is one big problem with this being that you relied on feelings to get you here.

You can feel a lot of things but that doesn't make them valid. You may feel it is for instance racist to criticize Judaism or Israel but that doesn't mean it is actually racist to do so. You may feel something is a religious experience but is in fact perfectly mundane. Mental gymnastics can only take you so far with your feelings.

Then you have reason. Some people try to reason out their beliefs and make sure they make sense. They'll argue and defend their beliefs to the very bitter end in some cases. Over the years they may even get very good at this.

Of course a problem arises here as well. You can not demonstrate that a god and even more painfully your own god/gods exist. You can not prove it and I know you can't because people have been trying for centuries now, millennia even and have as of yet come up with nothing.

"Ah ha!" they may say "But I can give you reasons it seems plausible that God exists!" There is usually a note of excitement among the younger apologists when they say this. The older ones may or may not even bother.

The issue here seems obvious to me. Any reason you could give still has to be taken with a certain measure of faith. The reason sometimes given is that life Is too complex to come from nothing. This of course ignores evolution but even then it's not really an argument for anything but a deistic god now is it?

I've heard just about every reason in the book now I think or at least a good portion of them. If you have another feel free to apply it here if you wish. I can't say I don't listen for good reasons even today.

In the end when I stop and think about it, the lack of evidence and the sheer number of religions makes it neigh unto impossible to determine what religion could be right. Of course many don't claim the exclusivity to the truth that others do but this is of little consequence.

So tell me , why would you think your particular interpretation of the spiritual is correct?

The simple fact that geography, above all other, determines your likely belief system tells me it's all nonsense. Yes, many claim to have 'experience' that dictates their belief. But the fact that we don't see Hindus experiencing the power of the Holy Ghost, or Muslims seeing revelations as per Joseph Smith speaks to the simple truth that the act of belief creates these 'experiences' in our imperfect biological minds.

 

[Quintessence]

I want a spirituality that at least has a little evidence behind it. For me.

Yes, and these already exist. As far as I can tell, all of them have evidence behind them. One might not find a particular type or body of evidence persuasive, but it seems silly to me to deny that the evidence is there.

And yeah, I'm sorry that I haven't tape recorded all of my rituals and behaviors over the past decade or so to provide evidence of my religion for you. But I'm not really comfortable doing that, and it's not the best use of my time.

 

[Evie]

Lets pretend all religions are equally possibly correct. If one goes by nothing but the numbers the chance of you being correct are 1 in 19 if you count the large religions of the world . From there if you add in religious sects and dead religions the chance goes down even lower.

So how do you figure which religion is the correct one if there is indeed a correct one?

I've seen people approach this issue in two different ways, one is simply that you feel a connection to a certain belief therefore you follow said belief. You seek out the gods you feel a connection to and go from there. Of course there is one big problem with this being that you relied on feelings to get you here.

You can feel a lot of things but that doesn't make them valid. You may feel it is for instance racist to criticize Judaism or Israel but that doesn't mean it is actually racist to do so. You may feel something is a religious experience but is in fact perfectly mundane. Mental gymnastics can only take you so far with your feelings.

Then you have reason. Some people try to reason out their beliefs and make sure they make sense. They'll argue and defend their beliefs to the very bitter end in some cases. Over the years they may even get very good at this.

Of course a problem arises here as well. You can not demonstrate that a god and even more painfully your own god/gods exist. You can not prove it and I know you can't because people have been trying for centuries now, millennia even and have as of yet come up with nothing.

"Ah ha!" they may say "But I can give you reasons it seems plausible that God exists!" There is usually a note of excitement among the younger apologists when they say this. The older ones may or may not even bother.

The issue here seems obvious to me. Any reason you could give still has to be taken with a certain measure of faith. The reason sometimes given is that life Is too complex to come from nothing. This of course ignores evolution but even then it's not really an argument for anything but a deistic god now is it?

I've heard just about every reason in the book now I think or at least a good portion of them. If you have another feel free to apply it here if you wish. I can't say I don't listen for good reasons even today.

In the end when I stop and think about it, the lack of evidence and the sheer number of religions makes it neigh unto impossible to determine what religion could be right. Of course many don't claim the exclusivity to the truth that others do but this is of little consequence.

So tell me , why would you think your particular interpretation of the spiritual is correct?

In one word. BELIEF.

 

[rrosskopf]

Not all religions are created equal. To narrow our search, we should rule out any dead religions. Most of the people in the world are adherents of dead religions. Their gods dont answer their prayers, and aren't expected to. If a god is silent, it is a good indication that he doesn't exist. Or perhaps they are praying wrong; either way the religion has little to offer.
That still leaves many religions. People can worship evil beings and call them gods, but I suggest that such a being isn't worthy of worship. That calls for a moral judgment but no one wants to follow a god that is out of harmony with their own sense of right and wrong.
A god should lead us to become better people. Otherwise, what is the point? The only thing we can control is ourselves.
Lastly, we must test likely candidates, to discover for ourselves if they are real. We must know if their promises are true.

 

[Blastcat]

So tell me , why would you think your particular interpretation of the spiritual is correct?

Im an atheist and I interpret the Bible.. I think my chances of being CORRECT are close to zero. Just like everyone else.