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The chances of being right when it comes to religion.

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Lets pretend all religions are equally possibly correct. If one goes by nothing but the numbers the chance of you being correct are 1 in 19 if you count the large religions of the world . From there if you add in religious sects and dead religions the chance goes down even lower.

So how do you figure which religion is the correct one if there is indeed a correct one?

I've seen people approach this issue in two different ways, one is simply that you feel a connection to a certain belief therefore you follow said belief. You seek out the gods you feel a connection to and go from there. Of course there is one big problem with this being that you relied on feelings to get you here.

You can feel a lot of things but that doesn't make them valid. You may feel it is for instance racist to criticize Judaism or Israel but that doesn't mean it is actually racist to do so. You may feel something is a religious experience but is in fact perfectly mundane. Mental gymnastics can only take you so far with your feelings.

Then you have reason. Some people try to reason out their beliefs and make sure they make sense. They'll argue and defend their beliefs to the very bitter end in some cases. Over the years they may even get very good at this.

Of course a problem arises here as well. You can not demonstrate that a god and even more painfully your own god/gods exist. You can not prove it and I know you can't because people have been trying for centuries now, millennia even and have as of yet come up with nothing.

"Ah ha!" they may say "But I can give you reasons it seems plausible that God exists!" There is usually a note of excitement among the younger apologists when they say this. The older ones may or may not even bother.

The issue here seems obvious to me. Any reason you could give still has to be taken with a certain measure of faith. The reason sometimes given is that life Is too complex to come from nothing. This of course ignores evolution but even then it's not really an argument for anything but a deistic god now is it?

I've heard just about every reason in the book now I think or at least a good portion of them. If you have another feel free to apply it here if you wish. I can't say I don't listen for good reasons even today.

In the end when I stop and think about it, the lack of evidence and the sheer number of religions makes it neigh unto impossible to determine what religion could be right. Of course many don't claim the exclusivity to the truth that others do but this is of little consequence.

So tell me , why would you think your particular interpretation of the spiritual is correct?

The problem is the claim of the ancient religions claim of being absolutely right based on ancient scripture and mythology. The failure of the recognition that human knowledge is relative with time, evolves and changes, and the fallible human view of the ancients does not reflect the potential of our knowledge today.

This is true regardless of whether God exists or not!
 

james dixon

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So how do you figure which religion is the correct one if there is indeed a correct one?

We can all get along

If we just follow the same basic laws

.,.,.,.,.,.Which we all actually doo.,.,.,.,.,.

Every member of the United Nations

has on their books the following laws

Six (6) of the Ten Commandments have been put into “law” in all the member states of the United Nations

5
Honor your father and your mother.

6
You shall not murder.

7
You shall not commit adultery.

8
You shall not steal.

9
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10
You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

You cannot find one UN member state

of the United Nations

that does not have

the above laws on their books

Do you agree or not-?

Just asking :)-​
 

missmay

Member
Lets pretend all religions are equally possibly correct. If one goes by nothing but the numbers the chance of you being correct are 1 in 19 if you count the large religions of the world . From there if you add in religious sects and dead religions the chance goes down even lower.

So how do you figure which religion is the correct one if there is indeed a correct one?

I've seen people approach this issue in two different ways, one is simply that you feel a connection to a certain belief therefore you follow said belief. You seek out the gods you feel a connection to and go from there. Of course there is one big problem with this being that you relied on feelings to get you here.

You can feel a lot of things but that doesn't make them valid. You may feel it is for instance racist to criticize Judaism or Israel but that doesn't mean it is actually racist to do so. You may feel something is a religious experience but is in fact perfectly mundane. Mental gymnastics can only take you so far with your feelings.

Then you have reason. Some people try to reason out their beliefs and make sure they make sense. They'll argue and defend their beliefs to the very bitter end in some cases. Over the years they may even get very good at this.

Of course a problem arises here as well. You can not demonstrate that a god and even more painfully your own god/gods exist. You can not prove it and I know you can't because people have been trying for centuries now, millennia even and have as of yet come up with nothing.

"Ah ha!" they may say "But I can give you reasons it seems plausible that God exists!" There is usually a note of excitement among the younger apologists when they say this. The older ones may or may not even bother.

The issue here seems obvious to me. Any reason you could give still has to be taken with a certain measure of faith. The reason sometimes given is that life Is too complex to come from nothing. This of course ignores evolution but even then it's not really an argument for anything but a deistic god now is it?

I've heard just about every reason in the book now I think or at least a good portion of them. If you have another feel free to apply it here if you wish. I can't say I don't listen for good reasons even today.

In the end when I stop and think about it, the lack of evidence and the sheer number of religions makes it neigh unto impossible to determine what religion could be right. Of course many don't claim the exclusivity to the truth that others do but this is of little consequence.

So tell me , why would you think your particular interpretation of the spiritual is correct?
I don't think the existence of God can be proven, just like there are intangible things that most people would agree exist, but can't be proven by any scientific means. People can give reasons of why they believe intangible things exist and make arguments for them, but proving an invisable deity will be pretty hard to do. I guess the best way to come up with any real answer is by beginning a journey of trying to disprove something and see where that leads. As a Christian, all I can do is perhaps influence. I can tell you honestly about the facts of particular instances that I've experienced and allow you to decide for yourself if you think those facts cause you to believe that there could be a deity that caused those facts to take place.

As far as comparing religions, I would start by asking which one makes the most sense. According to what I have learned about human nature (since the core of most religions starts with an idea of right and wrong and bettering oneself). What I've come to know about human nature (from observance of people of all different ages, nationalities and gender, and from examining myself pretty closely, is that we all have the capacity to choose a right and sometimes selfless act, or a wrong and harmful one that has a direct or indirect effect on someone else. And I do know, or atleast, I can say personally, that I've never known a human that consistently does good to their fellow human, or even themselves. I also know that even when I want to do good, I don't always end up doing it, usually because of selfish reasons. This dilemma is the core of most religions. With every religion except Christianity, the goal is to strive to be a better human being, and that is from mustering up willpower alone, or trying to connect with a deity or deities which often time fails . I'm not saying we can't at times do good, but it is never 100% consistent (or close to that) no matter how hard we try. Every religion except Christianity, attains to arriving at perfection, yet no one ever reaches it. If the purpose of religion is to attain perfection, yet no one reaches it, then that religion is defective in the sense that it doesn't attain it's goal. Yes, it may improve people, but still is never complete. So Chritianity, as foolish as it seem to some , actually makes more sense to me. Because the Holy Spirit has been put inside of me because of my belief that Jesus was the Christ, I have a genuine supernatural help that enables me to continue to be regenerated from the "inner" person towards the outside, rather than the other way around, which makes for a true regeneration. I combine this understanding with the facts of my own personal experiences, along with the unique presence of the Holy Spirit that I never had in my pre-Christian life, and with the fact that many historians (including atheist and agnostic historians ) believe that Jesus did exist as a human being and that there were over 400 witnesses that claim to have seen him alive after he died, along with witnesses to his crucifixion. And yes, I've learned to trust certain emotions that correlate with certain perceptions over time that strengthen my faith.
I'm continually "seeing" more realities in life that line up with what Christianity teaches which would take way too long for me to go into now.
To me, the Gospel lines up with not only human nature, but also with the reality of the world itself in the sense that, in general, things are getting worse. Nature is becoming more unpredictable, many humans are becoming more and more selfish and hateful. The Bible has predicted these things would take place in the future, but no other religion seems to claim this.
 
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arthra

Baha'i
Lets pretend all religions are equally possibly correct. If one goes by nothing but the numbers the chance of you being correct are 1 in 19 if you count the large religions of the world . From there if you add in religious sects and dead religions the chance goes down even lower. So how do you figure which religion is the correct one if there is indeed a correct one?

I would suggest that all the major religions have the same Divine origin and in a spiritual sense they are all "correct". They are particularly correct for the time in which they were revealed in a social sense and in the parables relating to the questions of the people of their times. The revelation for the time we live in has more specific teachings for our present conditions such as reducing the extremes of wealth and poverty... offering universal education... eliminating race, religious and class prejudice and building the foundations for a future world commonwealth.

Now your opening remarks caught my interest as you use the denominator "nineteen". In the Abjad reckoning ..where letters signify numbers something like kabala and gematria, the word "Vahid" has a numerical value of nineteen. Vahid means "unity". So spiritual unity is an underlying principle in your concept of "all religions are equally possible" especially for their times and circumstances.

Your fourth grade teacher sought to provide what was needed at that level.. Your eleventh grade teacher offered more as your capacity to understand increased... All the teachers are qualified to teach and what they teach is valid.
 
Lets pretend all religions are equally possibly correct. If one goes by nothing but the numbers the chance of you being correct are 1 in 19 if you count the large religions of the world . From there if you add in religious sects and dead religions the chance goes down even lower.

So how do you figure which religion is the correct one if there is indeed a correct one?

I've seen people approach this issue in two different ways, one is simply that you feel a connection to a certain belief therefore you follow said belief. You seek out the gods you feel a connection to and go from there. Of course there is one big problem with this being that you relied on feelings to get you here.

You can feel a lot of things but that doesn't make them valid. You may feel it is for instance racist to criticize Judaism or Israel but that doesn't mean it is actually racist to do so. You may feel something is a religious experience but is in fact perfectly mundane. Mental gymnastics can only take you so far with your feelings.

Then you have reason. Some people try to reason out their beliefs and make sure they make sense. They'll argue and defend their beliefs to the very bitter end in some cases. Over the years they may even get very good at this.

Of course a problem arises here as well. You can not demonstrate that a god and even more painfully your own god/gods exist. You can not prove it and I know you can't because people have been trying for centuries now, millennia even and have as of yet come up with nothing.

"Ah ha!" they may say "But I can give you reasons it seems plausible that God exists!" There is usually a note of excitement among the younger apologists when they say this. The older ones may or may not even bother.

The issue here seems obvious to me. Any reason you could give still has to be taken with a certain measure of faith. The reason sometimes given is that life Is too complex to come from nothing. This of course ignores evolution but even then it's not really an argument for anything but a deistic god now is it?

I've heard just about every reason in the book now I think or at least a good portion of them. If you have another feel free to apply it here if you wish. I can't say I don't listen for good reasons even today.

In the end when I stop and think about it, the lack of evidence and the sheer number of religions makes it neigh unto impossible to determine what religion could be right. Of course many don't claim the exclusivity to the truth that others do but this is of little consequence.

So tell me , why would you think your particular interpretation of the spiritual is correct?
 
In time mankind will realize that religion is an ideological prejudism and will be categorized as equal to other forms of bigotry like racial prejudism. No religion will ever be correct as most are forms of suckholism. A powerful being does not require to be told of their majesty by those whom where created, it is only imposters who relish in such dribble.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
We can all get along

If we just follow the same basic laws

.,.,.,.,.,.Which we all actually doo.,.,.,.,.,.

Every member of the United Nations

has on their books the following laws

Six (6) of the Ten Commandments have been put into “law” in all the member states of the United Nations

5
Honor your father and your mother.

6
You shall not murder.

7
You shall not commit adultery.

8
You shall not steal.

9
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10
You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

You cannot find one UN member state

of the United Nations

that does not have

the above laws on their books

Do you agree or not-?

Just asking :)-​

I believe you have to look a little deeper than 'We can all get along.' It is not the laws on the books that causes contention, and violence between different religions and yes, nations. It is the deeper exclusive identity claims of ancient religions that at times translates into an aggressive national identity of us versus them.

Yes, there is evidence that these six commandments have existed in most cultures and societies throughout human history, but it is underlying identity and exceptions in ancient scripture and religions that creates the problems. For example: How is your neighbor defined in Judaism, Christianity and Islam?

I believe a more universal perspective is needed to bridge the ancient religions in the modern world and create a more truly universal identity that is more inclusive of our common spiritual heritage.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Lets pretend all religions are equally possibly correct. If one goes by nothing but the numbers the chance of you being correct are 1 in 19 if you count the large religions of the world . From there if you add in religious sects and dead religions the chance goes down even lower.

So how do you figure which religion is the correct one if there is indeed a correct one?

I've seen people approach this issue in two different ways, one is simply that you feel a connection to a certain belief therefore you follow said belief. You seek out the gods you feel a connection to and go from there. Of course there is one big problem with this being that you relied on feelings to get you here.

You can feel a lot of things but that doesn't make them valid. You may feel it is for instance racist to criticize Judaism or Israel but that doesn't mean it is actually racist to do so. You may feel something is a religious experience but is in fact perfectly mundane. Mental gymnastics can only take you so far with your feelings.

Then you have reason. Some people try to reason out their beliefs and make sure they make sense. They'll argue and defend their beliefs to the very bitter end in some cases. Over the years they may even get very good at this.

Of course a problem arises here as well. You can not demonstrate that a god and even more painfully your own god/gods exist. You can not prove it and I know you can't because people have been trying for centuries now, millennia even and have as of yet come up with nothing.

"Ah ha!" they may say "But I can give you reasons it seems plausible that God exists!" There is usually a note of excitement among the younger apologists when they say this. The older ones may or may not even bother.

The issue here seems obvious to me. Any reason you could give still has to be taken with a certain measure of faith. The reason sometimes given is that life Is too complex to come from nothing. This of course ignores evolution but even then it's not really an argument for anything but a deistic god now is it?

I've heard just about every reason in the book now I think or at least a good portion of them. If you have another feel free to apply it here if you wish. I can't say I don't listen for good reasons even today.

In the end when I stop and think about it, the lack of evidence and the sheer number of religions makes it neigh unto impossible to determine what religion could be right. Of course many don't claim the exclusivity to the truth that others do but this is of little consequence.

So tell me , why would you think your particular interpretation of the spiritual is correct?

There is a big difference between claiming God exists and a certain religion is true, accurate, whatever. I believe to the 99.9th that a creator intelligence exists. I use the evidence of observance and other evidences to enhance my belief in a creator being. Please don't ask me what evidence exists in a breathless tizzy like its the first time you have heard of such a thing. (Google what proof that God exists, I am tired of arguing the same nuances proofs and evidences over and over with an individual (a group really) that has entirely no interest in debating in good faith, and every reason to debate in an attempt to harm or for revenge entertainment. . No faith is required for belief in a creator being, at least no more faith than is required to belief what Hawking called imaginary numbers of the universes creation.

Religion is different. I believe in the christian version of God and afterlife reality mostly out of faith. There are archeological evidences, documents, history recorded by both christian and extra biblical sources, and evidences of fulfilled prophesy etc etc. When taken together in my mind they tip the scale in favor for Christianity over the other religions. However, I am sure ones choice of a particular religion has a far less chance of being correct than the belief in a intelligent creator (or the belief in nothing).

: { >
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
I believe you have to look a little deeper than 'We can all get along.' It is not the laws on the books that causes contention, and violence between different religions and yes, nations. It is the deeper exclusive identity claims of ancient religions that at times translates into an aggressive national identity of us versus them.

Yes, there is evidence that these six commandments have existed in most cultures and societies throughout human history, but it is underlying identity and exceptions in ancient scripture and religions that creates the problems. For example: How is your neighbor defined in Judaism, Christianity and Islam?

I believe a more universal perspective is needed to bridge the ancient religions in the modern world and create a more truly universal identity that is more inclusive of our common spiritual heritage.

There is no need to fix something that isnt broken. So instead of ; "I believe a more universal perspective is needed to bridge the ancient religions in the modern world and create a more truly universal identity that is more inclusive of our common spiritual heritage." just practice the teachings of Jesus, like 'love your fellow man as you love yourself'. That's all. Its the laziness of modern man and the irresponsibility of modern man that is mucking the world up. If we could bring ourselves to practice that one teaching this earth would be a paradise. Sadly in the 2000 years (or whatever) years since that teaching was created man has learned nothing, well except for demonstrating another of Jesus teachings is correct, and that teaching is or means "the love of money (GREED) is the root of all evil. And so it is.

: {>
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
You attributed a quote to me, that Lorgar actually said in the OP.

We can all get along

If we just follow the same basic laws

I agree. That's what G-d said. The Noahide Laws were given by G-d to all of humanity. They are:
  1. Do not deny G-d.
  2. Do not blaspheme G-d.
  3. Do not murder.
  4. Do not engage in illicit sexual relations.
  5. Do not steal.
  6. Do not eat from a live animal.
  7. Establish courts/legal system to ensure obedience to said laws.
Seven Laws of Noah - Wikipedia

You cannot find one UN member stateof the United Nations that does not have the above laws on their books. Do you agree or not?

I have no idea. I will take your word on it.
 

rharris001

New Member
Honestly, I do not believe any of them are "the right one" or that there is one true religion. It seems to me that the Creator is a spirit (invisible) and that any worship of that Creator must be on a spiritual level. Well, religion is not spiritual, it is "visible." What I mean by that is that each religion (or religious group) has icons, symbols and rituals that they use to venerate or worship their god or gods. Or, they may have persons or the "religious organization" itself is venerated. They all may have have a "holy book" that they consult. All of these things are visible things that require no faith because they can be seen. Permit me to say something that Jesus said. He said that "God is a Spirit and He MUST be worshiped with (or in) spirit and truth. Spirit and truth are not tangible objects that one can see, taste or touch. Someone or something has duped the entire world into the practice of "Religion" rather than the practice of "Spiritualism." That is, the worship/veneration (and exercise of faith) in that which cannot be seen (but assuredly exists). The world is a "religious" place. Sadly, a world full of religion and yet a very dangerous place to live. Religion is the problem (not belief in a Creator). Religion has divided the masses. It has enslaved. It has made war. It has created a mental illness. It is guilty to high heaven of murder and every atrocity committed under the sun. Religion is not of God, it is of men.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
. . . just practice the teachings of Jesus, like 'love your fellow man as you love yourself'. That's all.

This is very very naive like recommending every one dance through the field of daisies, and everything will suddenly be nirvana, or some kind of heaven on earth.

I could just as easily say '. . . just practice the teachings of Buddha, 'like love your fellow man as you love yourself.' . . . but just saying this is is like waving a magic wand like you recommend and kiss the bobo and it will be better.

The concept of 'do not fix it it is not broken,' is a decidedly Buddhist concept.

Its the laziness of modern man and the irresponsibility of modern man that is mucking the world up. If we could bring ourselves to practice that one teaching this earth would be a paradise. Sadly in the 2000 years (or whatever) years since that teaching was created man has learned nothing, well except for demonstrating another of Jesus teachings is correct, and that teaching is or means "the love of money (GREED) is the root of all evil. And so it is.

: {>

Too easy and idealistic an approach to be real . . .
 
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MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Honestly, I do not believe any of them are "the right one" or that there is one true religion. It seems to me that the Creator is a spirit (invisible) and that any worship of that Creator must be on a spiritual level. Well, religion is not spiritual, it is "visible." What I mean by that is that each religion (or religious group) has icons, symbols and rituals that they use to venerate or worship their god or gods. Or, they may have persons or the "religious organization" itself is venerated. They all may have have a "holy book" that they consult. All of these things are visible things that require no faith because they can be seen. Permit me to say something that Jesus said. He said that "God is a Spirit and He MUST be worshiped with (or in) spirit and truth. Spirit and truth are not tangible objects that one can see, taste or touch. Someone or something has duped the entire world into the practice of "Religion" rather than the practice of "Spiritualism." That is, the worship/veneration (and exercise of faith) in that which cannot be seen (but assuredly exists). The world is a "religious" place. Sadly, a world full of religion and yet a very dangerous place to live. Religion is the problem (not belief in a Creator). Religion has divided the masses. It has enslaved. It has made war. It has created a mental illness. It is guilty to high heaven of murder and every atrocity committed under the sun. Religion is not of God, it is of men.

I agree with most of your post. l would suggest religion is not the problem as much as the church is, this is especially true for Christianity. Jesus was no great fan of the established church. Just as today the Christian church still retains unfavorable aspects of every established church I am acquainted. The Church insists on a loyalty to dogma with many rules and regulations. Jesus on the other hand taught the Kingdom of God was upon us and the kingdom has little resemblance to the church. as Jesus taught it. Jesus taught that the Kingdom is inside us, and until a natural death we have already entered its domains by faith alone no church needed. After being 'born again' we are children of God as new spiritual beings. Of course Christianity isn't the only religion that packages their religions version of truth via Church's, other religions have their churches their dogma their rules too! Many in an effort to save your will kill you on the spot (lol) or have you go off to war to die for their churches version of truth. This is not what religion is or should be. The church allows for the centralization of power which can be an blessing or a terrible curse, guess one which the flesh desires?

Matt 18:20 ; "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

The moral of that story? No church required to become a child of God, to enter the kingdom, bring only your faith.

; { >
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
This is very very naive like recommending every one dance through the field of daisies, and everything will suddenly be nirvana, or some kind of heaven on earth.

I could just as easily say '. . . just practice the teachings of Buddha, 'like love your fellow man as you love yourself.' . . . but just saying this is is like waving a magic wand like you recommend and kiss the bobo and it will be better.

The concept of 'do not fix it it is not broken,' is a decidedly Buddhist concept.



Too easy and idealistic an approach to be real . . .

You could say the FSM was the author of love your fellow man, and if practiced it would work. It's not too simple, it's too difficult. Man is not too far removed from monkeys, and monkeys love their creature comforts and screwing around eh? However personally speaking, accepting Jesus as my savior and accepting the life and teachings of Jesus it allows me at least a chance to improve enough to enter the kingdom.

If Christanity does not work for you I am sorry. By my words I have done the required evangelizing, still I hope you would consider accepting Jesus as your savior.

POE ; {>
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
You could say the FSM was the author of love your fellow man, and if practiced it would work. It's not too simple, it's too difficult. Man is not too far removed from monkeys, and monkeys love their creature comforts and screwing around eh? However personally speaking, accepting Jesus as my savior and accepting the life and teachings of Jesus it allows me at least a chance to improve enough to enter the kingdom.

If Christanity does not work for you I am sorry. By my words I have done the required evangelizing, still I hope you would consider accepting Jesus as your savior.

POE ; {>

Your position here is questionable beyond what slot in the Christian belief system provides you with the shoes that fit and comfortable.

What you describe about primates is best suited as description of humans.

The above bold sounds more like wishful thinking in the gambit of Pascal's Wager. Believe it or not my last concern is fear as to whether I am personally saved or not.
 

VioletVortex

Well-Known Member
There isn't necessarily one correct religion. I find truth in Heathenry, Satanism, Egyptian polytheism, eastern practices and so on and so forth. The main exception here is Abrahamism.
 

james dixon

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
, things are getting worse.

Personally I disagree; the world is unfolding as it should

, Nature is becoming more unpredictable,


I disagree, nature is nature, life is unfolding as it should

,many humans are becoming more and more selfish and hateful.

Personally I disagree; the human race is becoming more and more unified. We now have the United Nations as proof

(1) The American Civil War was an internal conflict fought in the United States (U.S.) from 1861 to 1865. Four years of intense combat left 620,000 to 750,000 soldiers dead, a higher number than the number of American military deaths in World War I and World War II combined,
(2) African Americans were once “slaves”; On January 20, 2009 Obama was elected President of the USA & then elected again

The Bible has predicted these things would take place in the future, but no other religion seems to claim this.

In my view, the bible does not predict the future but it does say that if you do this or that this or that may be the consequence of it.

:)-
 
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james dixon

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I would suggest that all the major religions have the same Divine origin and in a spiritual sense they are all "correct". They are particularly correct for the time in which they were revealed in a social sense and in the parables relating to the questions of the people of their times.

Somethings need repeating.

Thank you, arthra for that post; there is more in that post that I did not include here, all I can say to fellow posters is to go to the post yourself and read it all. It is good reading
:)-
 
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