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The Changeless Consciousness/ Non-Duality

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
You totally lost me. You mean it is all the same and indistinguishable...?

I don't understand "eventually dissipates by way of impermanence, thus illuminating it's true nature."

So... no form. Like chaos... or Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do. lol, :)

Lets just say, best as I can attempt to relate this into words, lets liken it through a simplified scenario of which an igloo comprised of square blocks of ice (giving it's structure) is sitting on an island completely comprised of snow surrounded by an endless ocean of water.

You notice form, substance, and variations of consistency by way of separation, including that of the ocean that surrounds it. Yet in spite of the distinguishments and variations that can be had, its still intrinsically water, even when manifested in different and various compositions and forms that separates them. It's true nature becomes apparent and then becomes obvious once the separation of the ice igloo, snow island, and ocean is dropped away, thus reveling the inseparable and indistinguishable nature of water.

It goes something like that.


Its generally confusing and hard to understand because its usually presented this way:

The true nature of water
Ahem...
The ocean is the igloo, the blocks are the island, the island is the blocks, the ice is the water, the water is the snow, the snow is the igloo, the ocean is the blocks....or go a bit "crazier" like the Zen folks...The igloo surrounds itself, the ocean is surrounded by the igloo, the blocks sit at the top of the bottom of the ocean, the ocean is inside the igloo, the snow sits inside the ocean, the island rests on the igloo....

Makes you go :areyoucra, yet in a good way. :O)
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend Nowhere Man,

The true nature of water
Ahem...
The ocean is the igloo, the blocks are the island, the island is the blocks, the ice is the water, the water is the snow, the snow is the igloo, the ocean is the blocks....or go a bit "crazier" like the Zen folks...The igloo surrounds itself, the ocean is surrounded by the igloo, the blocks sit at the top of the bottom of the ocean, the ocean is inside the igloo, the snow sits inside the ocean, the island rests on the igloo....
Though did know about such imagery but have always provided this example of water which from ice to itself and vapor is like any other form which is solid as well as spirit like ice and vapor and water in between.
Born solid like ice one has first to melt be a flow and then vaporise and be present in its absence in a state of merger with the sky .

Love & rgds
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
I have aggressively sought out understanding since I posted the OT. I changed my view of divinity. I used to understand it as a spark that needed to be grown and cultivated. Now I understand it as already being, and it just needs to be realized. I still don't want to merge back with it. I like me. lol.

That is true. Yet I think one can be the sunlight emerging from an open window or one can be the sunlight emerging from the sun itself.

...
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend atanu,

Yet I think one can be the sunlight emerging from an open window or one can be the sunlight emerging from the sun itself.

Nothing to think about it as one is part of the whole and the whole includes everything and by merging with the whole one is everything the whole represents.

Love & rgds
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
Thank you Nowhere Man. That actually helped me grasp the concept much better.

For us non-dualist types the issue at hand is not merging into Brahman when we die. It is in the here and now. The transcendence of all neurosis of our egos in this very life. I guess the ideal of the non-dualist is to have one foot in the world and all separation and one foot in non-dualality. As some Tantric saints call it. The world becomes a mansion of mirth, full of peace love and bliss.

Please tell me more about non-dualists like us. What dharmic paths fall within this? What are some resources? Thank you so much! I'm trying to get a fuller understanding of both of these schools of thought, and then see which one I agree with.
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend Saint Tigress,

Been conscious of your growth [spiritual aspect] over the last year or so is truly heart warming like the bird which never knew if it knew how to fly and now is aware of her wings and slowly flapping them in order to launch herself to fly.
All the best!
If there was any *fastest Learner* award on RF, shall surely recommend your name for it! Best Wishes!

Love & rgds
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Friend atanu,

Nothing to think about it as one is part of the whole and the whole includes everything and by merging with the whole one is everything the whole represents.

Love & rgds

Eeeshh. Whole and everything? This is not thought?:)

...
 

Christian Gnosis

Active Member
Okay, let me attempt to address the OP. This, from my perspective, is what Brahman is. Brahman is the state of being and non-being. We ourselves, the gods, the animals, etc. are all being in this non-being force. This non-being force is a state of bliss because it is free from dualities, conflicts, etc. and when one lives their life by the dharma they live in a better sync with this bliss, hence they feel joy, happiness, love, etc.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
How can something both be being and non being? This is like suggesting something can be both equally hot and equally cold
or something is there and not there. Or something is true and false. Or something is going left and right at the same time.
 

Christian Gnosis

Active Member
How can something both be being and non being? This is like suggesting something can be both equally hot and equally cold.

Well because the being is the non-being expressed through us, through forms. Without the material it would be non-being, because it wouldn't be expressing or acting.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Friend Saint Tigress,

Been conscious of your growth [spiritual aspect] over the last year or so is truly heart warming like the bird which never knew if it knew how to fly and now is aware of her wings and slowly flapping them in order to launch herself to fly.
All the best!
If there was any *fastest Learner* award on RF, shall surely recommend your name for it! Best Wishes!

Love & rgds

Perhaps in the context of non-duality St Tigress, the 'fast learning' itself is the 'award' and the 'award' itself is the 'fast learning'. :D

Nice of you to notice zenzero, your own astute observations on the nature of non-duality should also be given an award, but then perhaps you are your own reward.
--------------------Namaste-------------------
namesteholou.gif
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zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend ben,

Yes true its discovering the self itself is on'e own award, like the flower, flowering and during flowering when it finds other flowers [friends/brothers] around the *ananda* gets enhanced.
Yes that reminds me the last few times nominated you did not lead to the award; well its our's only to keeping doing our karma and shall do so even this time.

Love & rgds
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
Friend Saint Tigress,

Been conscious of your growth [spiritual aspect] over the last year or so is truly heart warming like the bird which never knew if it knew how to fly and now is aware of her wings and slowly flapping them in order to launch herself to fly.
All the best!
If there was any *fastest Learner* award on RF, shall surely recommend your name for it! Best Wishes!

Love & rgds


You are so sweet! I tried to frubal you and I can't...

:hugehug:
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend St. Tigress,

Seriously am nominating you for the Kindness Award since found you to be too kind to your boy-friends and specially your father and such a kind person deserves the award.
Well can only nominate as the award is finally decided by the award committee.

Take Care!
Love & rgds
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
This is like saying without clothes I would be non-being. Nope, I would still be being, I just would not have clothes. Another example: is the spider non being without the web? No, because the spider is still being even without the web. The web is contingent and dependent on the spider, the spider is not contingent and dependent on the web

Purusha can exist without prakriti, but prakriti cannot exist without purusha. In the beginning there was only purusha and no prakriti. Similarly Brahman can exist without Maya, but Maya cannot exist without Brahman. In the beginning there was only Brahman and no Maya.
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
This is like saying without clothes I would be non-being. Nope, I would still be being, I just would not have clothes. Another example: is the spider non being without the web? No, because the spider is still being even without the web. The web is contingent and dependent on the spider, the spider is not contingent and dependent on the web

Purusha can exist without prakriti, but prakriti cannot exist without purusha. In the beginning there was only purusha and no prakriti. Similarly Brahman can exist without Maya, but Maya cannot exist without Brahman. In the beginning there was only Brahman and no Maya.

So you are within the same lines of thinking as non-dualists and advaita, yes? Unless I am not understanding...
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
Friend St. Tigress,

Seriously am nominating you for the Kindness Award since found you to be too kind to your boy-friends and specially your father and such a kind person deserves the award.
Well can only nominate as the award is finally decided by the award committee.

Take Care!
Love & rgds

Thank you <3

I have realized my trend with partners. In fact, I will be making a new thread soon about what I have realized. I've gone through more internal change in the last few months than I think I have gone through in the last three years! But anyway, I am practicing being more selfish, clarifying my priorities, and being more firm.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Another example: is the spider non being without the web? No, because the spider is still being even without the web. The web is contingent and dependent on the spider, the spider is not contingent and dependent on the web

Actually the spider is the web and the web is the spider as one being. Without the extension of its web, the spider could not live. The spider remains dependent on the web of which without it, the spider ceases to be a spider.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
The spider can exist without the web. I have seen many spiders walking about without webs ;)

Brahman is not Maya. Maya is just a reflection of Brahman. It is an illusion - non-being.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
So you are within the same lines of thinking as non-dualists and advaita, yes? Unless I am not understanding...

Yes, there is only one reality and one reality only and that is Brahman. Everything else is an illusion. This illusion will resolve itself when we lose the avidya(ignorance) through the dint of Yoga.
 
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