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The Changeless Consciousness/ Non-Duality

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend Surya Deva,

Yes, there is only one reality and one reality only and that is Brahman. Everything else is an illusion.
Could you clarify as to who created the MIND?? and illusions being mind created would eventually lead to whom??

Love & rgds
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
This question Adisankara answered by saying the question itself is irrelevant. We will not be able to understand the prime cause for why the mind arose, or if the mind existed eternally, why it became conditioned and impure. It is like the finite trying to understand the infinite.
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
Yes, there is only one reality and one reality only and that is Brahman. Everything else is an illusion. This illusion will resolve itself when we lose the avidya(ignorance) through the dint of Yoga.

Which yoga do you practice? The Swami I'm friends with and have been working with practices Jnana yoga and Ashtanga yoga I know for sure...
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
Yes, there is only one reality and one reality only and that is Brahman. Everything else is an illusion. This illusion will resolve itself when we lose the avidya(ignorance) through the dint of Yoga.


The way you and Wannabe Yogi describe the concept is similar to how I described my own thought. I also study from a Chaos Magick Theory perspective. In that view, Brahman is Chaos. That description allows for a slightly different visual... chaos can be a whole... the dualities existing but being one whole within it pulling and pushing like yin and yang. The Chaos can be one whole existing individually in everything. Each individual is uniquely individual, due to the nature if chaos (pull pieces away and each piece will be different and unique), but it you were to take it all and merge it back together... it would all interweave and become one Chaos again. This was my personal way of understanding the continuity of consciousness... how the Self can be consistent but still ever changing and evolving, and all the same yet still individual and uniquely ours.

In Advaita, it is:

Brahma satyaṃ jagat mithyā, jīvo brahmaiva nāparah — "Brahman is the only truth, the world is an illusion, and there is ultimately no difference between Brahman and individual self."

I honestly think I have a basic understanding of both views now thanks to you guys. I like non-duality better because in it's own way it came to me of my own reasoning. When I reach a thought in my own way, then realize that thought is already existing in a religious school of thought, it finds a special place within me.

I think my Swami friend is a dualist. He is focused on "non-doing." I am currently trying to understand, and he says when I do it will deepen my knowledge of these things.
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
Raja Yoga. What do you mean by Jnana Yoga? What does your swami's Jnana yoga practices entail?

I've heard of Raja. I understood there were three. Raja, Bhakti, and Jnana.

Raja - Yoga of control

Bhakti - Yoga of love

Jnana - Yoga of wisdom

I may be wrong... it's been a while since I studied the yogas in hinduism... I'm pretty sure that was the main three.

I honestly haven't been taught anything about it or showed anything about it. I just know that he practices it because he mentioned it in one of his workshops recently.

According to wikipedia Jnana translates to knowledge in Sanskrit, and it lists this as the concepts in Jnana yoga:

"Classification of means

Jnâna yoga teaches that there are four means to salvation:[5]
Viveka - Discrimination: The ability to differentiate between what is real/eternal (Brahman) and what is unreal/temporal (everything else in the universe.) This was an important concept in texts older even than the Bhagavad Gita, and often invoked the image of a Swan, which was said to be able to separate milk (or Soma) from water, whilst drinking.
Vairagya - Dispassion: After practice one should be able to "detach" her/himself from everything that is "temporary."
Shad-sampat - The 6 Virtues: Sama-Tranquility (control of the mind), Dama (control of the senses), Uparati (renunciation of activities that are not duties), Titiksha (endurance), Shraddha (faith), Samadhana (perfect concentration).
Mumukshutva - Intense longing for liberation from temporal limitations."
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
We do not understand Brahman to be chaos, unless you understand something else by chaos. We understand Brahman to be unchanging, absolute being, and eternal reality. Brahman is perfect order and truth. On the other hand, maya is understood to be chaos - changing, temporal and non-being. Maya is the complete opposite of Brahman.
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
Ohhh..... hmmm.....

Thank you for that clarification.... I will have to take a second look at how Brahman is understood, and then look more into the idea of Maya.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
According to wikipedia Jnana translates to knowledge in Sanskrit, and it lists this as the concepts in Jnana yoga:

The reason I asked is because I find Jnana Yoga a bit confusing. I cannot be quite sure if it just means intellectual discrimination(viveka) or discrimination through direct experience. If it the latter, then it is the same as Raja yoga. If it the former then it just philosophical reasoning, and only a means towards Raja Yoga, but not a path in and of itself towards enlightenment.

Raja Yoga is basically the Yoga of meditation. Particularly the 8-limbed path outlined by Patanajli in the Yogasutras. It consists of moral living, personal observances, physical postures, breathing regulation, concentration exercises and finally meditation. It is a holistic path to self development. As long as you are practicing all limbs you are developing holistically.
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
The reason I asked is because I find Jnana Yoga a bit confusing. I cannot be quite sure if it just means intellectual discrimination(viveka) or discrimination through direct experience. If it the latter, then it is the same as Raja yoga. If it the former then it just philosophical reasoning, and only a means towards Raja Yoga, but not a path in and of itself towards enlightenment.

Raja Yoga is basically the Yoga of meditation. Particularly the 8-limbed path outlined by Patanajli in the Yogasutras. It consists of moral living, personal observances, physical postures, breathing regulation, concentration exercises and finally meditation. It is a holistic path to self development. As long as you are practicing all limbs you are developing holistically.

My educated guess about your question would be that jnana focuses on direct experience. I say that because in our discussions direct experience rises a lot on his part. Direct experience or a posteriori knowledge is also very near and dear to me as a left hand path concept that has naturally been my own my whole life... which I found to be existing there.

Last night when we were talking he was telling me to make sure I not only study intellectually, but that I must integrate my life and "do." I compared it to martial arts... the difference between learning through "doing," and in sitting and watching and philosophizing about the art. In occultism that is called being "armchair," or a "scholar," versus a "practitioner." Swami told me that I understood him correctly.

I will ask him today though, to make sure for you.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
Ohhh..... hmmm.....

Thank you for that clarification.... I will have to take a second look at how Brahman is understood, and then look more into the idea of Maya.

Maya is often described as Brahman's energy or a potency within Brahman. It is best understood as a holographic projection. The word Maya means the source of all things that are in movement. It is not a coincidence that the word maya sounds like mother, because the root ma of maya is the same as the root of mother. Hence why maya is described as the feminine aspect and Brahman as the masculine aspect.

The best way to understand this philosophy is to consider that change requires something unchanging to become known. Maya is the change and Brahman is the unchanging. Maya because it is non-being cannot give substance to anything. Brahman because it is being gives substance to everything. There is why it is said all is Brahman and everything else is an illusion.
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
Swami wants to join the forum. He loves to talk to people and he is very tolerant, open minded, and kind. He is surprisingly capable on computers. He navigates facebook well and keeps up with people and his account there. I think RF is a bit more complicated... but I hope he does join. Everybody would love him. He is one of the few most amazing people I have met in my whole life... and the even much much fewer in the flesh.
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
Maya is often described as Brahman's energy or a potency within Brahman. It is best understood as a holographic projection. The word Maya means the source of all things that are in movement. It is not a coincidence that the word maya sounds like mother, because the root ma of maya is the same as the root of mother. Hence why maya is described as the feminine aspect and Brahman as the masculine aspect.

The best way to understand this philosophy is to consider that change requires something unchanging to become known. Maya is the change and Brahman is the unchanging. Maya because it is non-being cannot give substance to anything. Brahman because it is being gives substance to everything. There is why it is said all is Brahman and everything else is an illusion.

Wow... thank you so much for that explanation. I understand but that is going to take a bit to digest.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Ohhh..... hmmm.....

Thank you for that clarification.... I will have to take a second look at how Brahman is understood, and then look more into the idea of Maya.

Keep in mind that different schools have different interpretations/understanding.

For instance, I do not see Maya as separate from Brahman. Everything is Brahman.
 

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
In Tantric Philosophy Siva is male and conscious. Shakti is female and she is matter. One of the names for the Devine Mother Shakti is Narayani it means she who exposes consciousness. It is matter that exposes consciousness.
From our point of view it is only natural that evolution brings forth consciousness because it is endemic to the very nature of the Cosmos.
Together Siva and Shakti makes Brahman the ONE without a second.
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend WY,

For personal understanding have labelled them *consciousness* and *unconsciousness* and they both balance each other every moment and thus evolving eternally.

Love & rgds
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
In Tantric Philosophy Siva is male and conscious. Shakti is female and she is matter. One of the names for the Devine Mother Shakti is Narayani it means she who exposes consciousness. It is matter that exposes consciousness.
From our point of view it is only natural that evolution brings forth consciousness because it is endemic to the very nature of the Cosmos.
Together Siva and Shakti makes Brahman the ONE without a second.

I agree. When one says consciousness comes and goes, one is confused with particular consciousness, which is better called as awareness of diversity.

Scriptures name prajna as avvayaya -- imperishable.

What is simple to understand is that consciousness itself is unaware of diversity, because of being without boundary -- there is simply no landing for the awareness that is whole and undivided -- and thus no diversity is known. Consciousness never sleeps or never goes and comes.

Difficulty however, is that, further, there is the ungraspable-uniferrable Self, the Turya, called shiva (the auspicious) who abides in this state of unparted consciousness of deep sleep as sarvesvara-Lord and who also exists as the world and the jivas of the waking world, both fashioned of this unparted consciousness. Upanishads tell us that though unspeakable, uninferrable, ungraspable, this Self, which is beyond consciousness is knowable and must be known.

For nothing Shiva is not known as Lord of Tamas, Himself being tamasaparastat -- situated beyond Sleep as slumberless Seer. And that same truth is viewed as the "I", "They", "Lord" and the "Universe", on this side of sleep.
...
 

Kuvalya_Dharmasindhu

Nondualistic Bhakta
Namaste, dear friends!

Keep in mind that different schools have different interpretations/understanding.

For instance, I do not see Maya as separate from Brahman. Everything is Brahman.

Actually, ST-ji, this Madhuri-ji is totally right and this is a common way of thought to virtually all Hindu philosophical denominations. Brahman is the Ultimate Reality. That is not a point of deviation among the Dvaitins and Advaitins. Maya is a part of Brahman because Brahman is another way of describing the unity of everything. Where everyone differs is the question of the NATURE of Brahman as having personality/impersonality, being the Jiva/Atman of everything or above it.... etc....

But something that should be emphasized (because there's a lot of talk about "merging"), is what W-Yogi-ji pointed out before, that in Advaita there is NEVER any merger..... Because there was never a separation. We are always part of that non-dual reality. I believe the idea of merging into the Supreme comes from the formal system of Samkhya Yoga... So, to see yourself as separated from the whole in the first place is ignorance or avidya and that is one of the roots that keeps you from the truth.

*Pranams*
 
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