The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Blacks and the Priesthood)

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Is God racist?

 

[Birddog]

Is God racist?

Acts 10:34
At this Peter opened his mouth and said: “For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial, 35 but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.

Romans 2:10
but glory and honor and peace for everyone who works what is good, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

From "Insight on the Scriptures"

Jehovah, the Creator and Supreme One, cannot be challenged on his decisions and actions. He can do as he pleases with what he has created and does not owe anyone anything. (Ro 9:20-24; 11:33-36; Job 40:2) He deals with individuals or groups, even nations, according to his purpose and his own appointed time. (Ac 17:26, 31) Nevertheless, God is impartial. He rewards each person, not according to his outward appearance or possessions, but according to what he is and what he does. (1Sa 16:7; Ps 62:12; Pr 24:12) His Son Jesus Christ follows the same impartial course.—Mt 16:27.


So how can the God that created evrything be racist?

 

[sojourner]

I think that certain of the faithful have been and are racist.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Acts 10:34
At this Peter opened his mouth and said: “For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial, 35 but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.

Romans 2:10
but glory and honor and peace for everyone who works what is good, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

From "Insight on the Scriptures"

Jehovah, the Creator and Supreme One, cannot be challenged on his decisions and actions. He can do as he pleases with what he has created and does not owe anyone anything. (Ro 9:20-24; 11:33-36; Job 40:2) He deals with individuals or groups, even nations, according to his purpose and his own appointed time. (Ac 17:26, 31) Nevertheless, God is impartial. He rewards each person, not according to his outward appearance or possessions, but according to what he is and what he does. (1Sa 16:7; Ps 62:12; Pr 24:12) His Son Jesus Christ follows the same impartial course.—Mt 16:27.


So how can the God that created evrything be racist?

I never said God was racist, nor do I believe he is.
Some people in another forum wanted to argue with me and claim that God is racist, so I told them I'll talk to you on another thread, because it was really off subject on that thread.l

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I think that certain of the faithful have been and are racist.

I'm sorry, your words look a little jumbled. I don't understand you.

 

[wayward_teen]

I'm sorry, your words look a little jumbled. I don't understand you.

That made perfect sense to me

The LDS perception of God is not one of a racist being.
The LDS chruch was certainly racist at one time. This is a solid fact. Whether or not you can blame the chruch and whether or not it was acceptable is a different argument.

The very definition of racism is to exhibit prejudice or discrimination based upon race. Not allowing blacks the priesthood because of their race was racist.

Just for the record, the LDS church is *not* racist any longer and does not support racist behavior.

 

[Katzpur]

Is God racist?

No, He's not.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

No, He's not.

I full heartedly agree, nor was he ever.
Has he ever denied descendants of a certain person the priesthood? Yes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe God denied Ham, the son of Noah, and his descendants the priesthood.
Was God racist then? No.
According to my understanding the same concept was going on with the Blacks and the Priesthood in the earlier days of the Church.

 

[wayward_teen]

I full heartedly agree

Because...? Did God say that he isn't racist in LDS doctrine? The LDS church certainly doesn't present him that way, but it's interesting to think about. Don't most mormons hold that God gave dark skin as a mark of some sort?

EDIT: I realize that the dark skin mark/curse thing is a sensitive issue, so I don't want to go about researching the web about it... I'll just get anti-mormon overload. But I can't find a good answer on LDS.org, so...?

 

[Katzpur]

I full heartedly agree, nor was he ever.
Has he ever denied descendants of a certain person the priesthood? Yes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe God denied Ham, the son of Noah, and his descendants the priesthood.
Was God racist then? No.
According to my understanding the same concept was going on with the Blacks and the Priesthood in the earlier days of the Church.

Where in the Standard Works do you find a revelation stating that Black men were not to hold the priesthood? Why did Joseph Smith personally ordain at least one Black man to the priesthood? If God approved of this ordination and later changed His mind, it would stand to reason that we would have some record of His revelation to Brigham Young, don't you think?

 

[Katzpur]

Because...? Did God say that he isn't racist in LDS doctrine? The LDS church certainly doesn't present him that way, but it's interesting to think about. Don't most mormons hold that God gave dark skin as a mark of some sort?

EDIT: I realize that the dark skin mark/curse thing is a sensitive issue, so I don't want to go about researching the web about it... I'll just get anti-mormon overload. But I can't find a good answer on LDS.org, so...?

Whether a "mark" is to be used to deny a worthy man blessings is the real issue here, in my opinion. (You're probably going to find that Yaddoe and I are poles apart on this issue, by the way. So gear up for an interesting discussion. This is one of my hot buttons. )

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Honestly, I haven't done a whole lot of research on it yet.
I would love to hear what Katzpur has to say on it.
I believe President Joseph Feilding Smith has written about this topic in is book
Answers to Gospel Questions. Unfortunately however that book won't be available to me until school starts. The Church is true, that is about all I can say, all of the itty bitty details don't really matter, but are interesting anyway, and I love to learn about them.

 

[Katzpur]

The Church is true, that is about all I can say.

We can agree on that, yaddoe, even though we may disagree on a number of the details.

 

[zomg]

The Mormon God is very, very racist. The Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham have passages relating to people of dark skin as being cursed.

Brigham Young said some of the most disgusting things about black people I have ever read. Why would God allow his prophet to say such horrible things and allow such thinking to prevail in his church for over a hundred years?

Denying black women the chance to go to the temple? Not letting families be sealed for eternity because of their skin color? I'm sorry, that is very racist.

But, as Gordon B. Hinckley stated, we should just ignore those "flicks of history"

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Where in the Standard Works do you find a revelation stating that Black men were not to hold the priesthood? Why did Joseph Smith personally ordain at least one Black man to the priesthood? If God approved of this ordination and later changed His mind, it would stand to reason that we would have some record of His revelation to Brigham Young, don't you think?

All I can think of is official declaration 2, but it never said anything specifically about black men, it just said all who were previously denied. It says all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained without regard for race or color.
I believe I have heard or read about that man Joseph Smith ordained.
I wish I could remember it better though.

 

[Katzpur]

All I can think of is official declaration 2, but it never said anything specifically about black men, it just said all who were previously denied. It says all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained without regard for race or color.

Right. That declaration lifted the ban. What declaration established it in the first place? There wasn't one.

I'm sorry I won't be able to participate on this thread again until Thursday evening or Friday. I'm leaving to go out of town.

 

[fantome profane]

I full heartedly agree, nor was he ever.
Has he ever denied descendants of a certain person the priesthood? Yes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe God denied Ham, the son of Noah, and his descendants the priesthood.
Was God racist then? No.
According to my understanding the same concept was going on with the Blacks and the Priesthood in the earlier days of the Church.

That is racist. I am not saying “God” is racist, I don’t believe in any “God”, so obviously I don’t believe that “God” ever denied anybody anything based on the colour of their skin. But if “God” did deny something to some people based on their race, that would clearly be racism.

 

[waitasec]

why is this question posed in the 1st place?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Someone called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints racist, so I made this thread so we could discuss it, and they seem to of run away.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Right. That declaration lifted the ban. What declaration established it in the first place? There wasn't one.

I'm sorry I won't be able to participate on this thread again until Thursday evening or Friday. I'm leaving to go out of town.

Thanks, I'll remember that.