The Confederate Flag

[dust1n]

Well, I read this article by someone who writes for the school paper with me.

Is it heritage, or hate? : The Corsair

SEAN BLACKWELL - The Corsair

Since the end of the end of the Civil War the Confederate flag has been a symbol of controversy. Some say they are only displaying the pride in their southern heritage, while others see it as a symbol of hate and treason. I tend to agree with the latter of the two groups.

True it is a symbol of southern heritage; but is it a part of our heritage we should be proud of? I don’t see an openly racist region with no regard to the progress of a nation as something to be proud of.

It is true that prior to and even at the beginning of the Civil War slaves were used in the union states. It is also true that prior to the south seceding from the union that President Lincoln had no intention on ending slavery. He simply wanted to prohibit this inhumane practice in the new territories.

Considering the Civil War ended almost 150 years ago with the Confederate States on the losing end: Why is the Confederate flag still flying? I am perfectly aware that people are within their first amendment rights by displaying it. Just because you have the right to do something doesn’t mean you should.

The debate over what the flag stands for is a simple matter of perception. The majority of those flying the flag perceive it to be a symbol for southern pride and those more informed and intellectual people see it as a symbol of southern shame.

I would bet money that most of those flying this rag harbor some if not all of the racist views of their southern forefathers. They will tell you and me it is a display of their heritage, but they really use it to not so subtly mask their racist feelings. The klu - klux - klan use the flag as one of their symbols. Enough said.

The fact is this hate symbol flew over a group of states that wanted to preserve slavery and break away from the nation. These facts make it very hard to see it as anything but a racist rag. Anyone calling themselves a “proud American” has absolutely no justification for flying the stars and bars instead of the Stars and Stripes. This would be like a “proud Polish Jew” flying a Nazi flag.

You are either an American or a Confederate loving secessionist. Isn’t there enough hypocrisy in the world without “ya’ll” participating? President Obama had it right when he said the flags proper place was in a museum.

I am a proud southerner from right here in Pensacola, but the Confederate flag represents a part of my heritage I am not proud of. I know the flag will still be displayed. I only ask that you who display it have a reason why when I ask. It is a part of your heritage that many hate.





What is your opinion on the Confederate flag?

 

[Azakel]

What is your opinion on the Confederate flag?

The same as the Swastika. It's a symbol that holds a feeling of a lot of hate, but it's a symbol and hold different meaning s for different people. Most people see a Swastika and think only one thing 'Nazi', no matter how it's displayed. But to other it more then that and has been use in and by different people all over.
I'm sure there are Racist people that use the flag for just that reason, but there are also other that don't and might not even connect the two.
One thing I find fun is the band Hed PE use the Confederate Flag, but as a symbol of rebellion, and I doubt they use it in a Racist fashion(since the front man is Afro-Brazilian).
This is just IMO.

 

[Smoke]

If it's about heritage, then why are they flying the Confederate naval jack? Do you think Robert E. Lee flew the ******* naval jack off his front porch? The naval jack was adopted all across the South in the 1950s as the banner of segregation.

I'll grant you that a lot of these people don't know it's the naval jack, and a lot of them don't know how it was adopted as a proud symbol of segregation. But if they were really so damned interested in their heritage, they would know.

The kicker is, most the people who are so enthusiastic about flying the Confederate naval jack are also among the first to say you'd better say your pledge of allegiance to the U.S. flag if you know what's good for you.

You want to celebrate your Southern heritage, fly the Bonnie Blue flag.

Number one, it's not an official symbol of armed rebellion against that U.S. flag you're so intent on revering. Number two, it's not the recognized symbol of racial segregation.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

It's a heritage of hate.

 

[xkatz]

I think this flag would be more appropriate for Confederate fans and Southerners.

 

[Revoltingest]

I know some fine southerners who see the flag as displaying their regional pride & heritage. For them, it ain't about racism. It seems that quite
a few northern types are full of hatred & bigotry towards southerners, particularly those who like the Confed flag. Yeah, some Rebs are racist
jerks, but so are many Yanks. The flag will mean different things to different people. Personally, I don't even want to fly the American flag.

 

[xkatz]

Personally, I don't even want to fly the American flag.

What is the flag of Revoltistan?

 

[Revoltingest]

What is the flag of Revoltistan?

At the moment it's a .40S&W Glock (black, or course) on a black background at nite.
(Being a single color, I get a good price on it.) Tis a flag of anger....nay, seething rage!

 

[Amill]

Slaves were traded and forced to do labor while our American flag was flying too, and even the north since the Civil War has treated men of African heritage with hate and prejudice so I don't really see that huge of a difference. Many people around where I live fly a Confederate flag on their vehicles or houses, and I don't take issue with it. There's hardly any diversity around here, so who or what are they directing their "hate" and "racism" toward? Especially when it's on their house where only a few other neighbors ever see it.

I think it's more of a fad than it is pride in heritage or a representation of their bigotry. Guys want to be seen as a tough country man.

 

[Eliot Wild]

It seems to me that 'flags' are mere symbols imbued only with the power that we grant them. I live in the southeastern United States at this time. And about the only images sparked in my mind when I see the Confederate Flag flying are those of poor, uneducated, unwashed white people.

And I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but it has usually been within this sort of 'visual' context that I have most often seen the Confederate Flag. As a matter of fact, the last time I recall seeing a raised Confederate Flag was watching one flown from the back of a muddy Chevy Silverado that also sported a gun rack in the cab's rear window. I remember it distinctly, because my girlfriend and I made dueling jokes about the hilarious iconic nature of the sight. I didn't even realize anyone still made 'gun racks'.

I wouldn't doubt that there are plenty of learned and bathed folks who are proud of the Confederate Flag and fly it out of respect. However, that just hasn't been my most common experience with it and I'm more apt to associate the image with something else.

Of course, I am white myself and I don't react with the same sort of instinctive loathing at the flag as some others. I am not as personally affronted by the historical implications of that image. Personally, it is more often the butt of one of my lame jokes, moreso than anything else. So, while I can only sympathize with non-whites and non-southerners for the unsettling impressions they might experience at the Confederate Flag, I personally believe it is a person's right to fly it if they so choose.

It just seems to me that the best way to negate the power of a particular image is to quit reacting to it. Of course, I also recognize that is easy for me to say, 'cause as a white anglo male living in the Southern United States at this particular time I have never had to suffer as a minority the brunt of the majority's ethno-hatred and racism.

So, I've always found the best way for me personally to mute the power of an antagonistic image was to either ignore it or make it the target of comedy.

First and foremost, I support the First Amendment. And I interpret that it guarantees people the right to fly the Confederate Flag, as well as any other kind of flag. As a matter of fact, if someone wants to make their own flag that reads, "I hate white people", and plant it on their front porch for every passerby to see, I believe that is protected by the First Amendment as well.

 

[Father Heathen]

Sure It's heritage, but one of shame rather than pride.

 

[Gunfingers]

So i looked it up on wikipedia.

The "confederate flag" as we know it did indeed start as a naval jack, however it grew in popularity among the confederate military and most units adopted it or some variant as the "confederate battle flag".
As this grew in popularity the "stars and bars" flag was replaced with a flag that used the confederate battle flag as the union and the rest of the flag being white. This was replaced a month before surrender with a flag that had a red field on one side.

The renewal in popularity, according to wikipedia, came not as a result of segregation but from units from the southern US using it as their unit flag in WWII. In fact the confederate battle flag was raised over Shuri Castle after the battle of Okinawa by a marine from the self-styled "rebel company".

But hey, why worry about the facts when we can just write everyone off as racists.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sure It's heritage, but one of shame rather than pride.

Shame & pride are in eye of the beholder.
There is no "It's this." or "It's that."
Of course, some things are absolutely true for all humans, eg, raw oysters are disgusting, bacon is a food of the gods, all Libertarians are nerdy.

 

[Reverend Rick]

YouTube Music Video | SWEET HOME ALABAMA (FULL VERSION) by LYNARD SKYNARD | HitTrax MIDI Files, Karaoke Song Files, MP3 Backing Tracks

 

[Smoke]

The renewal in popularity, according to wikipedia, came not as a result of segregation but from units from the southern US using it as their unit flag in WWII. In fact the confederate battle flag was raised over Shuri Castle after the battle of Okinawa by a marine from the self-styled "rebel company".

But hey, why worry about the facts when we can just write everyone off as racists.

Okay, I went and read the Wikipedia article and that's not what it says.

After the Battle of Okinawa a Confederate flag was raised over Shuri Castle by a Marine from the self-styled "Rebel Company" (Company A of the 1st Battalion, 5th Marines). It was visible for miles and was taken down after three days on the orders of General Simon B. Buckner, Jr. (son of Confederate general Simon Buckner), who stated that it was inappropriate as "Americans from all over are involved in this battle". It was replaced with the flag of the United States. By the end of World War II, the use of the Confederate flag in the military was rare.

<---snip-->

According to Civil War historian and native Southerner Shelby Foote, the flag traditionally represented the South's resistance to Northern political dominance; it became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 1960s, when fighting against desegregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance.​

There's been a huge controversy over the Confederate flag in South Carolina. It flew over the State House dome from 1962 to 2000, and still flies on the State House grounds. The initial decision to fly the flag was made by an all-white legislature at the height of the controversy over segregation. This is a state in which most African-Americans couldn't vote until the 1970s, and in which repeal of the anti-miscegenation law was still controversial in the 1990s, thirty years after Loving v. Virginia made it unenforceable. Many people felt it should be kept on the books as a testimony to what was "right," even though it couldn't be enforced.

Look, I'm from West Florida, and I grew up with the rebel flag. We moved to Ohio when I was a kid and I hated it, and I liked all things Confederate just because I wanted to go back home. I have a full sized rebel flag folded up in a box in my guest room right now. And I used to fly the damned thing, too.

But the thing about symbols is that they have meaning. When I became aware of what the rebel flag really meant to people, I took it down.

It doesn't symbolize Southern heritage. It symbolizes white, racist Southern heritage. And there's no way around it. It symbolizes the Confederacy, and the Klan, and Jim Crow and all that white racist ********. If it was about Southern heritage, it would be a symbol for all Southerners, not just the white Southerners. If you see the look on your black friend's face when he comes to your house and sees that flag, and you still want to fly it, you ought to be ashamed.

 

[Smoke]

First and foremost, I support the First Amendment. And I interpret that it guarantees people the right to fly the Confederate Flag, as well as any other kind of flag.

So do I. And I exercise my First Amendment rights by commenting on it.

 

[Reverend Rick]

But hey, why worry about the facts when we can just write everyone off as racists.

Was Lynard Skynard racist?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfCGToH09r4

 

[gnomon]

The kicker is, most the people who are so enthusiastic about flying the Confederate naval jack are also among the first to say you'd better say your pledge of allegiance to the U.S. flag if you know what's good for you.

Bingo!

I was talking about this with my coworker just three days. Having grown up in the rurban South (what I call those of us who were borderline rural and had the suburbs grow up around us) I was witness to many people who include the "Rebel Flag" on their trucks or clothing but were gung ho Patriots.

Walking contradictions. Or the clear failure of American education.

If people actually flew the flag because they had a beef with Federalism or their opinion of an overgrown Federal government that would mean one thing. People who consider themselves patriotic but display this symbol are pretty much racist on my own observation. Though I do know someone who is famous in my local area and his shop is pretty much a local landmark that is unabashedly anti-government, racist and flies the flag. Hell. Minorities visit his store on a regular basis and he get's his picture taken with them. Displays them all over the place. Strange man.

 

[Storm]

I have mixed feelings on this one, tbh. "Southern pride" isn't purely about racism, for one thing. I also have a visceral reaction to any and all attempts to whitewash our history. OTOH, it's one thing to remember one's mistakes, and quite another to celebrate them, as so many Confederate flag-fliers seem to do. A little sensitivity goes a LONG way.

I dunno. Years ago, I had a very dear friend of German ancestry who displayed both the Confederate and Nazi flags in his home. Man didn't have a racist bone in his body. They were to remind him of how easily people slip into hatred.

 

[dust1n]

I have mixed feelings on this one, tbh. "Southern pride" isn't purely about racism, for one thing. I also have a visceral reaction to any and all attempts to whitewash our history. OTOH, it's one thing to remember one's mistakes, and quite another to celebrate them, as so many Confederate flag-fliers seem to do. A little sensitivity goes a LONG way.

I dunno. Years ago, I had a very dear friend of German ancestry who displayed both the Confederate and Nazi flags in his home. Man didn't have a racist bone in his body. They were to remind him of how easily people slip into hatred.

Pensacola was the first European settlement in America and is called the City of Five Flags (it was first Spanish, then French, British, Confederacy, and now the normal US flag). So the Confederate Flag is not a problem there.

I think the problem though is always anyone who claims their reasoning as "heritage".

Btw, nice to see you posting again.