The confessional should be unsealed

[Saint Frankenstein]

Just what I've said: remove any exemptions for religious ministers from mandatory reporting laws.

If it comes out in the course of an investigation that a priest violated their mandatory reporting requirement - whether inside or outside the confessional - prosecute him.

Edit: and let the civil courts use the conviction as a factor in their judgments as appropriate.

So you want to force priests to report crimes confessed to by penitents? I already said why I'm against that and I haven't seen a reason to change my stance.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So you want to force priests to report crimes confessed to by penitents?

I want to make them legally obliged like any mandatory reporter, yes.

I already said why I'm against that and I haven't seen a reason to change my stance.

Kinda. You seem to be against mandatory reporting in general. I haven't seen anything from you about why priest-penitent privilege should be given greater status than, say, doctor-patient privilege (as one example of something that gets set aside by mandatory reporting).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I want to make them legally obliged like any mandatory reporter, yes.


Kinda. You seem to be against mandatory reporting in general. I haven't seen anything from you about why priest-penitent privilege should be given greater status than, say, doctor-patient privilege (as one example of something that gets set aside by mandatory reporting).

I think mandatory reporting is a flawed system, yes. Not sure what would be better, though.

 

[shmogie]

I am of the opinion that if someone confesses to a priest a serious crime, they should be obliged by law to inform the police. Giving the miscreant a few hail Mary's is not going to absolve them of their wrong doing. For instance, if the RCC had cracked down on paedophile priests and reported them to the police instead of keeping the knowledge of their misdeeds in house, they would not have been free to abuse again as many of them did.

Privileged communications are just that. You could make much stronger criminal cases if you could be privy to every conversation between client and attorney , but you can´t.

In the cases you mention a priest could talk about the problem in general to someone in authority without breaking the seal of the confessional, and that person COULD investigate the problem in general, netting the miscreant.

The state has no business being involved in a religious sacrament. This holds true for Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Hindus, anyone who practices a religion with an established ¨priesthood¨.

 

[David1967]

I am of the opinion that if someone confesses to a priest a serious crime, they should be obliged by law to inform the police. Giving the miscreant a few hail Mary's is not going to absolve them of their wrong doing. For instance, if the RCC had cracked down on paedophile priests and reported them to the police instead of keeping the knowledge of their misdeeds in house, they would not have been free to abuse again as many of them did.

This

 

[Vee]

I am of the opinion that if someone confesses to a priest a serious crime, they should be obliged by law to inform the police. Giving the miscreant a few hail Mary's is not going to absolve them of their wrong doing. For instance, if the RCC had cracked down on paedophile priests and reported them to the police instead of keeping the knowledge of their misdeeds in house, they would not have been free to abuse again as many of them did.

Agree, but if that happens people will stop confessing altogether. The reason why some still do it is because they know the priest in not allowed to tell anyone.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Agree, but if that happens people will stop confessing altogether.

So?

 

[stvdv]

I am of the opinion that if someone confesses to a priest a serious crime, they should be obliged by law to inform the police. Giving the miscreant a few hail Mary's is not going to absolve them of their wrong doing. For instance, if the RCC had cracked down on paedophile priests and reported them to the police instead of keeping the knowledge of their misdeeds in house, they would not have been free to abuse again as many of them did.

Would be fair to do it to all professions. If criminal confesses to lawyer to make the lawyer also report. Would make Law system much cleaner.

 

[stvdv]

Would be fair to do it to all professions. If criminal confesses to lawyer to make the lawyer also report. Would make Law system much cleaner.

And criminals confessing to psychiatrists or whatever also

 

[Shiranui117]

So?

Put yourselves in the shoes of a devout Catholic. In Catholicism, if one dies with unconfessed mortal sins, that person goes to Hell. If people don't come to confession because they're scared of legal repercussions, they face eternal damnation. Catholics would much rather see somebody come to confession and be spared eternal damnation, and anything that would put a barrier or a deterrent to that is unconscionable as they see it.

You're essentially telling Catholics that their deeply-held religious beliefs and their entire worldview at best don't matter and at worst are worthy of being prosecuted by the State.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Put yourselves in the shoes of a devout Catholic. In Catholicism, if one dies with unconfessed mortal sins, that person goes to Hell. If people don't come to confession because they're scared of legal repercussions, they face eternal damnation.

Right. So as I mentioned earlier, if there are predators who are observant enough Catholics to care about getting absolution in confession, the prospect that they might not be able to get absolved of victimizing a child might make them think twice before victimizing a child. This seems like a win to me.

Catholics would much rather see somebody come to confession and be spared eternal damnation, and anything that would put a barrier or a deterrent to that is unconscionable as they see it.

Nonsense. There have been plenty of cases of priests threatening to deny people the sacraments. There was a whole thing here in Canada a few years ago when a few priests refused the sacraments to MPs for failing to vote against abortion.

You're essentially telling Catholics that their deeply-held religious beliefs and their entire worldview at best don't matter and at worst are worthy of being prosecuted by the State.

No, I'm telling Catholics that their beliefs shouldn't be a shield for predators or their accomplices.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I am of the opinion that if someone confesses to a priest a serious crime, they should be obliged by law to inform the police. Giving the miscreant a few hail Mary's is not going to absolve them of their wrong doing. For instance, if the RCC had cracked down on paedophile priests and reported them to the police instead of keeping the knowledge of their misdeeds in house, they would not have been free to abuse again as many of them did.

Who can really forgive sins but God? No man truly is able to forgive sins. That’s my view.

 

[Thief]

I am of the opinion that if someone confesses to a priest a serious crime, they should be obliged by law to inform the police. Giving the miscreant a few hail Mary's is not going to absolve them of their wrong doing. For instance, if the RCC had cracked down on paedophile priests and reported them to the police instead of keeping the knowledge of their misdeeds in house, they would not have been free to abuse again as many of them did.

but sinners won't go to confession
for fear of the man made law

and then the church would have pews full of people
unable to receive communion for lack of confession

so they believe

besides.....it is written
all that was done in secret....shall be made known

and so the angelic have a game....hehehehehe
This is Your Life

to be read out loud for all to hear

( I hope not.....but.....)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

but sinners won't go to confession
for fear of the man made law

and then the church would have pews full of people
unable to receive communion for lack of confession

Mandatory reporting in this case generally deals with things like physical or sexual abuse of a child, child neglect, or sometimes elder abuse.

Any congregation where the pews are filled with people who are committing these sorts of crimes and haven't been caught has problems much deeper than what we're talking about here.

 

[Thief]

Mandatory reporting in this case generally deals with things like physical or sexual abuse of a child, child neglect, or sometimes elder abuse.

Any congregation where the pews are filled with people who are committing these sorts of crimes and haven't been caught has problems much deeper than what we're talking about here.

yeah.....

we all end up before God and heaven

naked

unable to hide what we really are

 

[JJ50]

Privileged communications are just that. You could make much stronger criminal cases if you could be privy to every conversation between client and attorney , but you can´t.

In the cases you mention a priest could talk about the problem in general to someone in authority without breaking the seal of the confessional, and that person COULD investigate the problem in general, netting the miscreant.

The state has no business being involved in a religious sacrament. This holds true for Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Hindus, anyone who practices a religion with an established ¨priesthood¨.

If religious sacrament protects a criminal the state should intervene, religion should never be above the law.

 

[shmogie]

If religious sacrament protects a criminal the state should intervene, religion should never be above the law.

Religion isn't above the law. The law holds the confessional inviolate. Is that defense attorney above the law when what he knows and doesn´t divulge hurts the prosecutions case ? If your doctor knows that you have become addicted to pain medication, because of pain, and that you have been buying some of it illegally, is he required to report you to the police as part of his treatment plan ?

The church doesn´t exist to enforce the law as an adjunct of the state. Itś sole and stated purpose is redemption through confession and repentance. Requiring a confessor to report anything to the state will simply block the church from doing itś primary function. No one will confess, as simple as that.

So, you are back to square 1

 

[JJ50]

Religion isn't above the law. The law holds the confessional inviolate. Is that defense attorney above the law when what he knows and doesn´t divulge hurts the prosecutions case ? If your doctor knows that you have become addicted to pain medication, because of pain, and that you have been buying some of it illegally, is he required to report you to the police as part of his treatment plan ?

The church doesn´t exist to enforce the law as an adjunct of the state. Itś sole and stated purpose is redemption through confession and repentance. Requiring a confessor to report anything to the state will simply block the church from doing itś primary function. No one will confess, as simple as that.

So, you are back to square 1

The confessional should NEVER be inviolate, especially if lives are in danger due to criminal activities.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Religion isn't above the law. The law holds the confessional inviolate. Is that defense attorney above the law when what he knows and doesn´t divulge hurts the prosecutions case ? If your doctor knows that you have become addicted to pain medication, because of pain, and that you have been buying some of it illegally, is he required to report you to the police as part of his treatment plan ?

Here in Ontario, every person is required to report child abuse or neglect. Why should priests be exempt?

Reporting abuse and neglect

 

[JJ50]

Here in Ontario, every person is required to report child abuse or neglect. Why should priests be exempt?

Reporting abuse and neglect

They shouldn't be exempt, the RCC dogma which requires them not to report crimes which have been disclosed to them however bad, is corrupt and evil.