The Creationist's Argument and its Greatest Weakness

[BilliardsBall]

Yes. Of course! I would love any evidence! That's what I've been asking you for, for several pages now!


Really? I'm all about evidence. Good evidence that actually demonstrates what is being claimed.


Oh for Pete's sake.


You've already tried this one on me, and we've already been over this.

Enough with the deflections now. Please present your evidence, if you have any. You claim "creation" by the God you worship is self-evident. So it should be extremely easy to provide the evidence you have so far refused to provide. Otherwise, I will have to take your endless deflections as evidence that you don't have any evidence for your claim.

Do you have evidence for this "self-evident" claim, or not?
I mean, so far all you've managed to do is demonstrate that "creation" by some god(s) is not self-evident.

I'm afraid I had to remind you before, and do so now, do you have evidence that you exist or not? To quote your words applied to the long-ago creation event, for which no people were witness, regarding the "fact" of your own existence: " . . . It should be extremely easy to provide the evidence you have so far refused to provide."

 

[BilliardsBall]

What's with all the tap dancing? Is "creation" by the god you worship self-evident or not?
Good grief.

Huh? I've already said Creation is self-evident. Which self-evident things do you allow to exist? Do you have proof that you exist beyond what I would say is your self-evident assertion?

 

[BilliardsBall]

As an observer, I find there is evidence that someone or something posting on RF using the name SubductionZone exists.

However, I would need further evidence.


SubductionZone, please provide the answer to the following question.
What is the name of one of the Senators from Idaho?

Please put your answer in a response to this post.


Now, BB, we will await confirmation.

And how does that prove:

1. Ecco is not also Subduction Zone

2. Either or both of "you" are a Poe

3. Both Ecco and Subduction are ME, neither exists separately from me and my will

 

[BilliardsBall]

ecco said: ↑
So you are open to the idea that everything was created LastThursday - correct?



I didn't ask what you know. I asked if you were open to the idea that everything was created LastThursday.

It was a simple question. It can be answered with a Yes or a No.

Care to respond?

No.

 

[BilliardsBall]

ecco said: ↑
I think you would agree that...

• Man's imaginings created Zeus.
• Man's imaginings created Athena.
• Man's imaginings created Thor.
• Man's imaginings created Bumba.
• Man's imaginings created Shiva.
• Man's imaginings created Haikili.

So why would you not agree that.

• Man's imaginings created Yeshua.

So, you agree that all gods except one are the creations of man's imaginings. You single out one and give your reasons for doing so.

Let's examine your reasoning.
You claim that your god "exhibits great love", but you do not supply any justification for that.

Quite to the contrary, it is written your holy text that your God commanded the death of young men and boys of a defeated army.

He also brutally drowned and buried alive in mudslides all but a few humans and animals. He, according to your scripture, is the greatest mass murderer of all time.

Please explain how these actions "exhibit great love".

Once you address this point we may be able to move on to your other points.

You got something right about the Bible! Congratulations. God has determined a day in which each individual person faces death. He also appointed each person to life.

Perhaps you can see clear to balance the gift (life) with the payment (accountability) and the blessing (opportunity to pass from an old body to a new imperisherable one for eternal life).

Your love concepts are not merely subjective but pessimist. Next, we can talk about evil--you will curse God for every child who suffers, I will bless God for every healthy, happy child.

The great love of Christ was exhibited on the cross, you cannot improve on it personally IMHO. From Romans 5:

6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[ecco]

BilliardsBall Pot #341

I'm afraid I had to remind you before, and do so now, do you have evidence that you exist or not?
​

As an observer, I find there is evidence that someone or something posting on RF using the name SubductionZone exists.
However, I would need further evidence.

SubductionZone, please provide the answer to the following question.
What is the name of one of the Senators from Idaho?
Please put your answer in a response to this post.

Now, BB, we will await confirmation.

James Risch.

Ah hah!
James E Risch, U.S. Senator for Idaho

There is the proof that someone or something posting on RF using the name SubductionZone does actually exist.

BilliardBalls, you're up.

 

[ecco]

I didn't ask what you know. I asked if you were open to the idea that everything was created LastThursday.

It was a simple question. It can be answered with a Yes or a No.

No.

I accept your answer. I did ask for a Yes or No. I did not ask for the logic behind your answer.

However, I must state the obvious: There is no way to differentiate between a god creating everything LastThursday and a God who created everything 6000 - 10,000 years ago.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why make the remark a solipsist would make? You ONLY believe in things YOU can see and feel directly? Does Antartica exist?

You do not seem to understand the meaning of "solipsist". If anything you are arguing as one and I gave you an example that would show you to be wrong if we were fact to face. This may help:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/solipsist

 

[Subduction Zone]

Who "based a religion on a superstitious belief"? I became a Christian while an old Earther and firm evolutionist.

So you went from rational to irrational beliefs. You just admitted to switching to a superstitious belief. From my experience very few creationists of your stripe never were atheists. They usually tended to be weak Christians is all. And obviously your education was rather lacking since you continually demonstrate an ignorance of evolution by the arguments that you try to use against it.

Though there is always the possibility of some sort of trauma, physical or mental, that could cause sever cognitive dissonance on your part.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ironically, you quote Rene Descartes, a very strong Christian believer.

Additionally, you resort to name calling. Why?

What is ironic about that? No one has claimed that Christians are automatically wrong simply because they are Christians. That is the sort of "logic" that creationist often use in trying to argue against evolution. And what "name calling"? Why do creationists so often make this false claim about others?

 

[ecco]

You got something right about the Bible! Congratulations. God has determined a day in which each individual person faces death. He also appointed each person to life.

So you believe in predestination. You believe that none of your decisions are your decisions. How boring. How sad.

Perhaps you can see clear to balance the gift (life) with the payment (accountability) and the blessing (opportunity to pass from an old body to a new imperisherable one for eternal life).

Have you seriously considered eternity? After just a few trillion years, you would have seen everything, done everything. Then what? At this point you have not experienced even .000001% of eternity.

Your love concepts are not merely subjective but pessimist. Next, we can talk about evil--you will curse God for every child who suffers, I will bless God for every healthy, happy child.

No, you are wrong. I do not curse "God" any more than I would curse Pele for destroying my home in Hawaii (if I had a home in Hawaii that got destroyed by the recent volcanic eruption).

Why do you think someone who does not believe in any gods would attribute anything to any gods. That's just plain silly.

6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

But, even according to your own beliefs, Christ did not die. He merely traded in his crappy earthly body to be reincorporated into the GodHead. That seems like a big step up. You look forward to your time in heaven. You believe it will be better than you predestined life on earth. How is there any big sacrifice is Jesus leaving earth?

Do you really think about these things?

 

[Audie]

What is ironic about that? No one has claimed that Christians are automatically wrong simply because they are Christians. That is the sort of "logic" that creationist often use in trying to argue against evolution. And what "name calling"? Why do creationists so often make this false claim about others?

If that ever actually happened, it would be one of those
rare cases that we see an actual ad hom here

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm afraid I had to remind you before, and do so now, do you have evidence that you exist or not? To quote your words applied to the long-ago creation event, for which no people were witness, regarding the "fact" of your own existence: " . . . It should be extremely easy to provide the evidence you have so far refused to provide."

I'm afraid I have to remind you we have already gone around that merry-go-round before. I had to prove to you that my husband exists, remember??

Why. Can't. You. Just. Answer. The. Question???

How many pages have we had to go on and on with this pointless back and forth? You said quite clearly that something is self-evident. But you refuse to provide evidence for it.
Therefore at this point, the only thing I can conclude is that you have no evidence and your assertion is not self-evident. Hopefully we won't see you making that assertion anymore, because at this point, it would be a inaccurate one and you wouldn't want to be known for making misleading statements, would you? Your evasiveness is more telling than you seem to know.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Huh? I've already said Creation is self-evident. Which self-evident things do you allow to exist? Do you have proof that you exist beyond what I would say is your self-evident assertion?

 

[Audie]

Keep it up it will be worse than a face palm for you.
The human mind can only take so much.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Keep it up it will be worse than a face palm for you.
The human mind can only take so much.

Oven mitts help:

Crap. Are images not loading again?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Keep it up it will be worse than a face palm for you.
The human mind can only take so much.

True that. Thanks for the reminder

 

[BilliardsBall]

I accept your answer. I did ask for a Yes or No. I did not ask for the logic behind your answer.

However, I must state the obvious: There is no way to differentiate between a god creating everything LastThursday and a God who created everything 6000 - 10,000 years ago.

How about documentary history? Which goes back 6,000 - 10,000 years in written/inscribed form.

 

[BilliardsBall]

So you believe in predestination. You believe that none of your decisions are your decisions. How boring. How sad.


Have you seriously considered eternity? After just a few trillion years, you would have seen everything, done everything. Then what? At this point you have not experienced even .000001% of eternity.


No, you are wrong. I do not curse "God" any more than I would curse Pele for destroying my home in Hawaii (if I had a home in Hawaii that got destroyed by the recent volcanic eruption).

Why do you think someone who does not believe in any gods would attribute anything to any gods. That's just plain silly.


But, even according to your own beliefs, Christ did not die. He merely traded in his crappy earthly body to be reincorporated into the GodHead. That seems like a big step up. You look forward to your time in heaven. You believe it will be better than you predestined life on earth. How is there any big sacrifice is Jesus leaving earth?

Do you really think about these things?

I don't believe in predestination regarding salvation. I believe that God has appointed people for death and judgment, therefore, I consider what God might ask of us.

Of course I've considered eternity. I currently am learning new things often and have good experiences. I will be learning new things in the new universe for eternity. The main difference will be I will no longer hurt others by acting against the dictates of conscience. Of course I think of these things at length. Why do you believe we will experience linear time in the same way in the new universe where God is the source of light, not heavenly bodies? God seems very un-bored, why will I be bored?

Christ did die, the man Christ tasted death and the godhead was ripped asunder for Jesus to feel death, the loss of fellowship with His Father. He tasted death/separation to spare me that problem. I worship Him.

I've heard the "no big sacrifice argument before," and want to know why "it's no big sacrifice" for someone to voluntarily suffer a horrible death by torture for the crimes another has committed?!

 

[BilliardsBall]

You do not seem to understand the meaning of "solipsist". If anything you are arguing as one and I gave you an example that would show you to be wrong if we were fact to face. This may help:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/solipsist

I guess you'd have to prove that we can be face-to-face first, that is, that either you or I or both of us exist.