The Creationist's Argument and its Greatest Weakness

[BilliardsBall]

So you went from rational to irrational beliefs. You just admitted to switching to a superstitious belief. From my experience very few creationists of your stripe never were atheists. They usually tended to be weak Christians is all. And obviously your education was rather lacking since you continually demonstrate an ignorance of evolution by the arguments that you try to use against it.

Though there is always the possibility of some sort of trauma, physical or mental, that could cause sever cognitive dissonance on your part.

You know I'm a Jewish Christian and didn't start as a "weak Christian," yes?

And how would you explain the fact that billions of people have my type of severe cognitive dissonance? Your argument is ludicrous on its face.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I'm afraid I have to remind you we have already gone around that merry-go-round before. I had to prove to you that my husband exists, remember??

Why. Can't. You. Just. Answer. The. Question???

How many pages have we had to go on and on with this pointless back and forth? You said quite clearly that something is self-evident. But you refuse to provide evidence for it.
Therefore at this point, the only thing I can conclude is that you have no evidence and your assertion is not self-evident. Hopefully we won't see you making that assertion anymore, because at this point, it would be a inaccurate one and you wouldn't want to be known for making misleading statements, would you? Your evasiveness is more telling than you seem to know.

You failed to prove that your husband and/or you exist. Why be so evasive on something that should be, how did you put it? "Simple to prove."

 

[BilliardsBall]

Ah, yes, the face slap. The first go-to of clear, sound, logical, philosophical people when they behave responsibly, like adults, in debate settings.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I guess you'd have to prove that we can be face-to-face first, that is, that either you or I or both of us exist.

I would not need to do that. If anything you are the one that is a solipsist here. I am perfectly happy in drawing a more than reasonable conclusion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I guess you'd have to prove that we can be face-to-face first, that is, that either you or I or both of us exist.

I would not need to do that. If anything you are the one that is a solipsist here. I am perfectly happy in drawing a more than reasonable conclusion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How about documentary history? Which goes back 6,000 - 10,000 years in written/inscribed form.

The Bible's accuracy is no longer anywhere near "documentary" level for anything more than 2,500 years ago and that is being overly generous.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You failed to prove that your husband and/or you exist. Why be so evasive on something that should be, how did you put it? "Simple to prove."

I actually did not fail. I provided an endless amount of ways I could easily demonstrate his existence to you. Funny, you didn't even remember that discussion until I pointed it out to you.

So you have no evidence to demonstrate the existence of the creator you think exists. That's obvious by now.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You know I'm a Jewish Christian and didn't start as a "weak Christian," yes?

And how would you explain the fact that billions of people have my type of severe cognitive dissonance? Your argument is ludicrous on its face.

Not every Christian has your type of severe cognitive dissonance. Most simply do not argue creationism even if they believe it. There belief is a very ignorant one. And in fact most Christians do not believe the creation myths to start with. But cognitive dissonance is much wider than you seem to think. How many people do you know that have something on the order of a "lucky sock" or some other sort of charm that they believe in?

There is a cure of course. You need to try to look at the evidence with an open mind and without fear. Fear is probably a major driver in cog dis and people tend to be afraid of quite a few different things.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Ah, yes, the face slap. The first go-to of clear, sound, logical, philosophical people when they behave responsibly, like adults, in debate settings.

I've run out of ways to ask you to answer the question I've been asking for pages now.
Pardon me for being frustrated.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I've run out of ways to ask you to answer the question I've been asking for pages now.
Pardon me for being frustrated.

The face palm is sometimes the best answer to a person that refuses to debate properly or to reason logically.

 

[ecco]

However, I must state the obvious: There is no way to differentiate between a god creating everything LastThursday and a God who created everything 6000 - 10,000 years ago.

How about documentary history? Which goes back 6,000 - 10,000 years in written/inscribed form.

Did you somehow miss the part that says: "God who created everything"?

Do you not understand that means everything -

• The deeply carved Grand Canyon
• The worn down hills of the Appalachians
• The lave flow from the Hawaiian volcano that looks like it was deposited two weeks ago
• The signed copies of the Declaration of Independence
• The schools you went to housing copies of your Junior year photos
• The Dead Sea scrolls
• The inscriptions in the pyramids and the mummies that have been taken from them
• You and your memories of last Christmas

EVERYTHING!

 

[ecco]

Have you seriously considered eternity? After just a few trillion years, you would have seen everything, done everything. Then what? At this point you have not experienced even .000001% of eternity.

Of course I've considered eternity. ... God seems very un-bored, why will I be bored?

If you cannot understand why you would not be bored, you really do not have an understanding of eternity. The first 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years are less than .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of eternity.
In fact you could spend almost all of eternity adding in zeros and you would still have almost all of eternity to add in more zeros.

God isn't bored? What has he done for forever? He pondered his forthcoming creation for 99.999999% of eternity. In seven days he created everything. Then he destroyed almost everything. Then he realized his destruction of almost everything was wrong but did nothing for another 2000 years. Then he impregnated a virgin with a copy of himself. That only lasted 30 years. Then he did nothing for another 2000 years.

Christ did die, the man Christ tasted death and the godhead was ripped asunder for Jesus to feel death, the loss of fellowship with His Father. He tasted death/separation to spare me that problem. I worship Him.

I scraped my arm and lost some skin. In comparison in terms of time spent in pain and loss of self, my pain and loss is far, far greater than god's.

I've heard the "no big sacrifice argument before," and want to know why "it's no big sacrifice" for someone to voluntarily suffer a horrible death by torture for the crimes another has committed?!

See above.

 

[Audie]

The face palm is sometimes the best answer to a person that refuses to debate properly or to reason logically.

So, like, why do you keep rewarding such behaviour?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Not every Christian has your type of severe cognitive dissonance. Most simply do not argue creationism even if they believe it. There belief is a very ignorant one. And in fact most Christians do not believe the creation myths to start with. But cognitive dissonance is much wider than you seem to think. How many people do you know that have something on the order of a "lucky sock" or some other sort of charm that they believe in?

There is a cure of course. You need to try to look at the evidence with an open mind and without fear. Fear is probably a major driver in cog dis and people tend to be afraid of quite a few different things.

I came to Jesus while a Junior in college, I've consistently, constantly, sifted evidence. I will continue to do so. I'm unafraid.

I actually did not fail. I provided an endless amount of ways I could easily demonstrate his existence to you. Funny, you didn't even remember that discussion until I pointed it out to you.

So you have no evidence to demonstrate the existence of the creator you think exists. That's obvious by now.

Feel free to post your top three "proofs" here.

 

[ecco]

BilliardsBall,

Don't you agree that if Marcion had won out, there would be no creationist arguments from Christians.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Did you somehow miss the part that says: "God who created everything"?

Do you not understand that means everything -

• The deeply carved Grand Canyon
• The worn down hills of the Appalachians
• The lave flow from the Hawaiian volcano that looks like it was deposited two weeks ago
• The signed copies of the Declaration of Independence
• The schools you went to housing copies of your Junior year photos
• The Dead Sea scrolls
• The inscriptions in the pyramids and the mummies that have been taken from them
• You and your memories of last Christmas

EVERYTHING!

I understand that God has given people free will, we partner with Him in Creation, yes.

 

[BilliardsBall]

If you cannot understand why you would not be bored, you really do not have an understanding of eternity. The first 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years are less than .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of eternity.
In fact you could spend almost all of eternity adding in zeros and you would still have almost all of eternity to add in more zeros.

God isn't bored? What has he done for forever? He pondered his forthcoming creation for 99.999999% of eternity. In seven days he created everything. Then he destroyed almost everything. Then he realized his destruction of almost everything was wrong but did nothing for another 2000 years. Then he impregnated a virgin with a copy of himself. That only lasted 30 years. Then he did nothing for another 2000 years.



I scraped my arm and lost some skin. In comparison in terms of time spent in pain and loss of self, my pain and loss is far, far greater than god's.




See above.

I have pondered your comments and was thinking about them this morning as I first awoke, too. God has given us many gifts of Creation and joy through Christ. In the past week, I've taken long walks, made love with my spouse, and have cooked and eaten delicious meals. In each case, I'd done the action hundreds or thousands of times before. I never said, "long walks, good food and sex bore me after doing them so many times, so I'll pass". I can guarantee I will still enjoy such things a decade for now if I'm still around, and doing such things forever sounds, well, like paradise!

Jesus gives people who trust Him eternal life in my opinion. And the difference--where I'm transformed to no longer sin against conscience--makes life even more delightful. I will be living and enjoying and exploring and learning.

Second, as awesome or overwhelming as eternity is as a concept, our understanding is based on a time-light continuum. I will live in the present for eternity and the time-light dynamic is changed in the new universe per the Bible.

Third, the universe relative to us is as large in size as eternity is to us in time. I look forward to exploring the wonders of the universe.

Finally, "He did nothing for 2,000 years" belies the fact that Jesus is actively reaching toward all those who seek Him. I've encountered Jesus in many ways, and life has been more exciting since trusting Jesus for salvation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So, like, why do you keep rewarding such behaviour?

How was that a reward?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I came to Jesus while a Junior in college, I've consistently, constantly, sifted evidence. I will continue to do so. I'm unafraid.

Then why can't you deal honestly with the topic of evolution? That implies great fear on your part. Why does the fact that parts of the Bible cannot taken literally threaten your belief so much? I have found that it is the weak in faith that demand the creation myths be true.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The face palm is sometimes the best answer to a person that refuses to debate properly or to reason logically.

I guess I've run out of ideas. I mean, how many times can you ask the same question?

But I guess his evasiveness actually does answer my question.