The Creationist's Argument and its Greatest Weakness

[Audie]

Is "crusading for truth" another way of saying "proselytizing"?

Pretty incredible bit of binary thinking, even for a
fundamentalist-

"you are either crusading for truth, or, you are
making derogatory remarks."

 

[ecco]

I didn't say "hates the gospels (plural, the first four NT books)", I said, "the gospel (that Jesus died and rose to save people from themselves)".

OK. Sorry, I misread that. I don't hate the Gospel. I consider it nonsense, but I don't hate it.

Answer: Atheists who post on forums but are not open to the truth claims of Jesus, won't pray, won't investigate.

I don't pray to nonexistent entities but I have investigated. So far I'm of the opinion that there was no Jesus.

By the same token, do you hate the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh? You post on forums but are not open to the truth claims of Bahá’u’lláh, and won't investigate.

 

[Skwim]

​

I understand and agree with your sentiments. However, this is not from a public school, it was from a private religious school which has since gone out of business.

Sorry, I wasn't responding to whatever post on a private religious school you made. My mention of public schools is simply in reference to probably the greatest offense committed by creationists.

.

 

[Audie]

BilliardsBall said: ↑
You know what I meant, I'm sure.


Mean what you say and say what you mean.

I am sure we are all real clear on what "hate" means.

 

[Polymath257]

I didn't say you hate me, I said those opposed to the gospel, i.e., people who post numerous times weekly on religious forums, without being religious, hate the ideas of substitutionary atonement, Christ's love, etc.

I don't 'hate' those concepts. I just don't understand why anyone would believe in them. They seem silly to me. At best, wishful thinking and at worst delusional.

Choice remarks here have included Jesus and the NT doctrines are "stupid," "dangerous", "insane", "anyone who believes this is deluded.

Also, atheists post and post and post on the same things while the religious gentle folk are more content to read and learn. Just my observations.

And my observations are pretty much the opposite. Religious posters tend to give the same apologetics over and over. Non-religious posters tend to point to evidence and arguments for their assertions instead of simply making a claim and insisting everybody believe what they say.

 

[Audie]

I don't 'hate' those concepts. I just don't understand why anyone would believe in them. They seem silly to me. At best, wishful thinking and at worst delusional.



And my observations are pretty much the opposite. Religious posters tend to give the same apologetics over and over. Non-religious posters tend to point to evidence and arguments for their assertions instead of simply making a claim and insisting everybody believe what they say.

I seriously doubt anyone here said "Jesus is dangerous".

I dont know what NT doctrine is characterized as
dangerous, insane, or stupid.

Does anyone?

A lot of it is really nice stuff, words to live by.

Leave out the supernatural and it all seems ok to me.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HATER<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

[BilliardsBall]

You made up something; I point it out, and
your response consists of making up derogatory
personal remarks.

And now your response is to again make
your falsehoods into something about me.

I suppose, that in your eyes, you do not lie.

What do you find to be the exact distinction
between "making something up" and "lying"?
They seem the same to me.

You do make things up. But you dont lie.

How does that work?

I consider making up things then sharing them lying. I do not lie.

I sometimes believe conversion for skeptics is as simple as them not assuming all proselytizers are liars, and realizing that God has touched others, then ...

 

[BilliardsBall]

Not the issue. The problem is how you interpret the emotion 'hate.'

Flat earthers and Moon landing hoaxers represent about 0.00001 % of the population. Literal Biblical hoaxers represent between forty and fifty percent of the population.

What it must be like to live in our asylum!

 

[BilliardsBall]

Mean what you say and say what you mean.

Elective abortions become medical abortions when people cry (and Planned Parenthood, etc.) cry "medical"! That's what I meant.

 

[BilliardsBall]

OK. Sorry, I misread that. I don't hate the Gospel. I consider it nonsense, but I don't hate it.



I don't pray to nonexistent entities but I have investigated. So far I'm of the opinion that there was no Jesus.

By the same token, do you hate the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh? You post on forums but are not open to the truth claims of Bahá’u’lláh, and won't investigate.

I see your line of reasoning, but I became a Religion major following conversion, just to do that specific type of investigation. What did I find?

Multiple religions promoting self-betterment for eternal life, etc. and one faith promising inherited perfection to make us fit for utopia, a free gift that was costly to the giver.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I don't 'hate' those concepts. I just don't understand why anyone would believe in them. They seem silly to me. At best, wishful thinking and at worst delusional.



And my observations are pretty much the opposite. Religious posters tend to give the same apologetics over and over. Non-religious posters tend to point to evidence and arguments for their assertions instead of simply making a claim and insisting everybody believe what they say.

You must not be reading my posts, I consistently admonish skeptics that the apologetics they accuse me of aren't mine; I constantly am reproving CHRISTIANS for promoting canards.

 

[Audie]

I consider making up things then sharing them lying. I do not lie.

I sometimes believe conversion for skeptics is as simple as them not assuming all proselytizers are liars, and realizing that God has touched others, then ...

You do believe the oddest things, including that
you do not make things up.

Shall we invite all your readers to start putting in
bold the things you make up and assert as fact?

Lets see how many we can get in a week.

 

[ecco]

I know the gospel is offensive to those who hate the gospel.

Since you haven't addressed it, who hates the gospel?

I see your line of reasoning, but I became a Religion major following conversion, just to do that specific type of investigation. What did I find?

Multiple religions promoting self-betterment for eternal life, etc. and one faith promising inherited perfection to make us fit for utopia, a free gift that was costly to the giver.

The promise of "inherited perfection" after your God intentionally forced mankind into imperfection. Hmmm.

What, exactly, was the cost to God for putting an infinitesimally small portion of himself on earth for the blink of an eye?

 

[shunyadragon]

Elective abortions become medical abortions when people cry (and Planned Parenthood, etc.) cry "medical"! That's what I meant.

NOT the topic of the thread, let's move on. Start a thread if you wish to pursue the topic further.

 

[shunyadragon]

I consider making up things then sharing them lying. I do not lie.

I sometimes believe conversion for skeptics is as simple as them not assuming all proselytizers are liars, and realizing that God has touched others, then ...

Not clear, muddled, and making assumptions of other here that are not valid. You need to get on the topic of the thread.

 

[gnostic]

Multiple religions promoting self-betterment for eternal life, etc. and one faith promising inherited perfection to make us fit for utopia, a free gift that was costly to the giver.

I actually used to believe that when I was younger, because I wanted to believe.

Salvation, eternal life and heaven sounded wonderful when I was a teenager.

But the last 18 years of my life, I have come to realise that they are empty promises and wishful thinking.

Seriously, how can you inherit “perfection”. Either you have or you don’t. Perfection cannot be given to you.

And I don’t think perfection exist, in any case. So it is another one of those wishful thinking.

The gospels seemed to be built on wishes. You might as want fairyland to be your utopia.

Eternal life used to be something I wanted, but I now find it is just a fantasy made by those who fear death, but it would seem to me they fear to live their life, here.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You do believe the oddest things, including that
you do not make things up.

Shall we invite all your readers to start putting in
bold the things you make up and assert as fact?

Lets see how many we can get in a week.

I either post facts or say "I think" or "if memory serves". Again, it is a crutch to believe that all evangelicals lie, it eases your path (for now).

 

[BilliardsBall]

Since you haven't addressed it, who hates the gospel?






The promise of "inherited perfection" after your God intentionally forced mankind into imperfection. Hmmm.

What, exactly, was the cost to God for putting an infinitesimally small portion of himself on earth for the blink of an eye?

The gospel is offensive to those headed for perdition. Those who hate the gospel include people like Hitchens, who said "substitutionary atonement is the most disgusting thing," as if suffering for others is on the level of say, paedophilia. Now there's hate! Don't go there, brother!

Your comment about the small suffering of Jesus relative to the universe is thoughtful, but misses how God was split and died (separated) for us.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Not clear, muddled, and making assumptions of other here that are not valid. You need to get on the topic of the thread.

Do you share the same concepts of moving on with those who insult me, you know, the people I reply to when they slander?

 

[BilliardsBall]

I actually used to believe that when I was younger, because I wanted to believe.

Salvation, eternal life and heaven sounded wonderful when I was a teenager.

But the last 18 years of my life, I have come to realise that they are empty promises and wishful thinking.

Seriously, how can you inherit “perfection”. Either you have or you don’t. Perfection cannot be given to you.

And I don’t think perfection exist, in any case. So it is another one of those wishful thinking.

The gospels seemed to be built on wishes. You might as want fairyland to be your utopia.

Eternal life used to be something I wanted, but I now find it is just a fantasy made by those who fear death, but it would seem to me they fear to live their life, here.

I believe, to answer your thoughtful question, that the Bible address this, for example, where it says believers will become partakers of the divine nature. I won't become God, but will receive of His power and energy to become morally perfected. All I need do to become morally perfected is ONE simple thing--when my conscience says, "Don't go there/do that/act that way," I stop. Simple.

IF I can do THAT ONE THING, I can live with you in utopia without ruining it for you. Other religions make vague promises that I can self-improve via religion, Christianity offers the opportunity to partake of God's nature and power, if we accept/trust what Christ did for us.

And Gnostic, my friend, if you REALLY believe I can't get to moral perfection, because you and I cannot possibly stop acting against our conscience, that is a clear understanding on your part that people are sinners who need a Savior from THEMSELVES.