The Creationist's Argument and its Greatest Weakness

[SkepticThinker]

I see, most humans who've ever lived are mistaken and when they talk to and beseech invisible beings that do not exist, they are mistaken and not deluded.

Oh okay, so you don't think that people who worshiped Osiris were mistaken, right? Osiris actually exists?
The people who revere Vishnu aren't mistaken, right? Vishnu actually exists?

Most humans who have ever lived didn't/don't believe in the god you believe in. People have believed in thousands of different gods throughout human history. Were they all right in thinking those gods existed? Or could they have been mistaken?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Huh? There are countless lurkers and also posters here who are open-minded and interested in learning about religion. None of them are atheists. PGA.

I don't know how on earth you think you can get away with that claim.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Oh yes, of course, I forgot, ad homs and mockery and insulting people of pure faith is public service. I've never scammed anyone or asked for anyone's money to further the gospel.

PGA!

Who has done this?

 

[Audie]

I don't know how on earth you think you can get away with that claim.

You mean his claim that he does not make things up?

 

[Audie]

Who has done this?

It is just another vacuous claim.

Try to get an example of, say, an "ad hom".

You will only at best get an example of not
understanding what an ad hom actually is.

 

[Audie]

Ah, so you're not much better than all these nasty skeptics you're always going on about in these forums. Right?


I don't have any "atheist faith." I have a lack of belief in god(s) pending good evidence and good reasons to believe. Same goes for my belief in fairies. Would you say I have faith that fairies don't exist?

In bold, made up.

 

[ecco]

I'm neither bitter, cruel, nor a troll. But if I, and others like me, weren't here, who would you talk to? If you just wanted to be in discussions with people who agree with you I'm sure there are forums that do not allow atheists. If nothing else, you could just limit your discussions to the folks at your bible studies.

Huh? There are countless lurkers and also posters here who are open-minded and interested in learning about religion. None of them are atheists. PGA.

I really would have to disagree. What I see, from the posts, are predominately very religious people and very non-religious people. I don't see too many posts from people who are "interested in learning about religion". Most already have their minds made up.

For those few who are truly undecided, it's good that they get to hear both sides, wouldn't you agree?

 

[ecco]

Are you also agnostic about Minnie Mouse or psychic snowflakes? Do you consider that the actual existence of these creations of man's imaginings is unknowable?

Well, I've seen a human being inside the Minnie Mouse costume, so I think I can safely say that Minnie Mouse only exists in cartoon and costume form. Though if I saw what I thought were an actual Minnie Mouse, I may have to change my mind.That's kind of how it works for me.

But again, do you consider the actual existence of a Minnie Mouse is unknowable or can you safely logically conclude that the very concept of a Minnie Mouse is nothing more than a creation of man's imaginings?

 

[ecco]

Oh yes, of course, I forgot, ad homs and mockery and insulting people of pure faith is public service. I've never scammed anyone or asked for anyone's money to further the gospel.

Perhaps you haven't asked anyone for money. However, God himself did not pay for:

or this

or this

 

[BilliardsBall]

Oh okay, so you don't think that people who worshiped Osiris were mistaken, right? Osiris actually exists?
The people who revere Vishnu aren't mistaken, right? Vishnu actually exists?

Most humans who have ever lived didn't/don't believe in the god you believe in. People have believed in thousands of different gods throughout human history. Were they all right in thinking those gods existed? Or could they have been mistaken?

Your goal post shift to "which God" is ducking the point. That either most everyone ever is a lunatic and runs the asylum you live in, or (horror of horrors) you are wrong about God.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I don't know how on earth you think you can get away with that claim.

You misunderstand my claim. Atheists who post 25 attacks daily on believers are backslidden Christians (and maybe not even atheists) and/or completely closed minded.

The proof is in the posts!

 

[BilliardsBall]

Perhaps you haven't asked anyone for money. However, God himself did not pay for:

or this

or this

And sometimes money-seeking from a church or ministry is appropriate, sometimes inappropriate. If your standard is perfection, you agree with God that imperfect and perfect people will be sorted into two different locations after death. Good work!

 

[BilliardsBall]

I really would have to disagree. What I see, from the posts, are predominately very religious people and very non-religious people. I don't see too many posts from people who are "interested in learning about religion". Most already have their minds made up.

For those few who are truly undecided, it's good that they get to hear both sides, wouldn't you agree?

Both sides of what? People come to a religious forum to learn about different religions, not to study atheism. They can go to the "thinking" atheist forum instead, where the lovely souls there will curse and mock them until they share the bitterest of emotions, dead, wandering, lost.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You mean his claim that he does not make things up?

Among others.

 

[SkepticThinker]

But again, do you consider the actual existence of a Minnie Mouse is unknowable or can you safely logically conclude that the very concept of a Minnie Mouse is nothing more than a creation of man's imaginings?

I have concluded that, yes. But I would say that claims of a physical creature known as Minnie Mouse are slightly different than claims about invisible, non-physical universe creators.

I guess to be more clear, when it comes to god(s) I don't believe any exist and I go about my life as if they don't. But, I am aware that we don't know everything there is to know about the universe and how it came to be, so I leave open the slight possibility that some god(s) may be out there in some capacity. Do I think it's the God that Christians or Muslims or Jews, etc. describe? Not really.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Your goal post shift to "which God" is ducking the point. That either most everyone ever is a lunatic and runs the asylum you live in, or (horror of horrors) you are wrong about God.

It speaks directly to the point, in my opinion. You're trying to tell me that everyone believes in God so there must be something to God claims because everyone can't be a lunatic, without bothering to notice that everyone believes in different gods in various different forms and that thousands of gods that were once believed in long ago, have made their way into the trash heap of history. They thought they were worshiping the right God(s) in the same way that you think you are worshiping the right God. I doubt you would agree that the gods previous human beings have worshiped actually existed. So what do you say about people who worshiped Zeus, for instance? Should I assume you think they're deluded lunatics? I'd really like an answer to that. Remember I said that I think people who believe in God may be mistaken, rather than delusional, as you tried to say. I'm trying to paint a picture from my point of view, for you here.

Never did I say that people who believe in god(s) are lunatics. That's you trying to put words in my mouth. Again.

 

[Audie]

Both sides of what? People come to a religious forum to learn about different religions, not to study atheism. They can go to the "thinking" atheist forum instead, where the lovely souls there will curse and mock them until they share the bitterest of emotions, dead, wandering, lost.

Nobody has said anything to you to remotely compare with or
justify the venom you spew.

What is wrong with you?

If I believed in "Satan" I'd think you are a shill,
on a mission to discredit and bring shame to
Christianity.

 

[Audie]

Never did I say that people who believe in god(s) are lunatics. That's you trying to put words in my mouth. Again.

It seems a common thread among fundy / creationist
posts, that unless they make something up and then
pounce on that, they've nothing to say.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Both sides of what? People come to a religious forum to learn about different religions, not to study atheism. They can go to the "thinking" atheist forum instead, where the lovely souls there will curse and mock them until they share the bitterest of emotions, dead, wandering, lost.

How do you know why people come here? I'm sure people have a variety of reasons, some of which have been explained to you.

I still think it's funny/strange though, that you think atheists are bitter, emotionally dead, wandering, lost people because they challenge your beliefs on a discussion forum.

 

[Skwim]

Putting up patiently with skeptics. That's what I sacrifice daily.

Love it!....Love it!....Love it!

"Woe is me. Oh, woe is me

because I have to come to a debate forum where there's all these people who insist on debating. Why can't a debate forum be more like a ladies tea

where we talk about nice things . . . . . . like lakes with boats, . . and friends, . . . . . and noodle salad?. . . . . . . . . .
IYeah, good times and noodle salad."




(Sorry I'm late in replying, but in my haste to set everyone straight I missed your woeful complaint.
"Noodle salad" paraphrase from Jack Nicholson in As good as it gets.)

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