The creator did it.

[shunyadragon]

I'm glad that you recognize that atheism is not a religion.


However, to call it a religious belief is wrong. It is a belief about gods, not religions or about religions.

Never said it was, and neither is theism, agnosticism, deism, polytheism, nor any other isms as such. They are religious beliefs.

 

[shunyadragon]

The Greek word translated, 'religion', δεισιδαίμων, is a composit of δείδω, to fear, and δαίμων, deity.

So 'religion' (in the greek) has to do with the reverence for (or lack thereof) toward deities.

But the latin based 'religion', is about retying, or binding, or possibly 'careful' (religiens).

It has become a very ambiguous term, and is often used as a pejorative by anti-christians.

IMO, it has nothing to do with origins, and is thrown out as a deflection..

'Christians are religious! Atheists have science!'

First problem is words do have origins and linguistic roots, the definitions of words do evolve and change over time as does the word religion.

The most common pejorative use of 'religion' is claim; "What one believes is not a religion nor religious belief, but what everyone else believes is religious belief or belongs to a religion,"

 

[usfan]

First problem is words do have origins and linguistic roots, the definitions of words do evolve and change over time as does the word religion.

The most common pejorative use of 'religion' is claim; "What one believes is not a religion nor religious belief, but what everyone else believes is religious belief or belongs to a religion,"

Exactly.. reduced to a bumper sticker slogan (for ease or remembrance and chanting!), it goes like this:

'Christians are religious! Atheists have science!'

 

[usfan]

If anything is a 'religion!!' these days, it is the belief in universal common descent.. aka evolution.
1.No science to support it. It cannot be observed or repeated.
2. The devoted followers defend their faith with jihadist zeal.
3. Any questioning of the facts or theories behind it are attacked with demeaning buzzwords. 'Denier!' 'Hater!' 'Superstitious fundie nutter!!'
4. Devoted proselytizers gain positions of authority in all human institutions, ban any competitive view, and mandate exclusive indoctrination of their religious beliefs.
5. Bobbleheaded indoctrinees can recite all the memorized talking points, but don't have a clue what the science is.

Now THAT is a shining example of promoting a religious belief, and smearing the competition..

 

[shunyadragon]

If anything is a 'religion!!' these days, it is the belief in universal common descent.. aka evolution.
1.No science to support it. It cannot be observed or repeated.
2. The devoted followers defend their faith with jihadist zeal.
3. Any questioning of the facts or theories behind it are attacked with demeaning buzzwords. 'Denier!' 'Hater!' 'Superstitious fundie nutter!!'
4. Devoted proselytizers gain positions of authority in all human institutions, ban any competitive view, and mandate exclusive indoctrination of their religious beliefs.
5. Bobbleheaded indoctrinees can recite all the memorized talking points, but don't have a clue what the science is.

Now THAT is a shining example of promoting a religious belief, and smearing the competition..

From the perspective of a scientist; You have a problem of intentional self-imposed ignorance of science based on an ancient mythological religious agenda.

 

[paarsurrey]

I do not understand your question.

The Atheism people don't have any source of knowledge, science does not support Atheism. Does it, please?

Regards

 

[osgart]

If anything is a 'religion!!' these days, it is the belief in universal common descent.. aka evolution.
1.No science to support it. It cannot be observed or repeated.
2. The devoted followers defend their faith with jihadist zeal.
3. Any questioning of the facts or theories behind it are attacked with demeaning buzzwords. 'Denier!' 'Hater!' 'Superstitious fundie nutter!!'
4. Devoted proselytizers gain positions of authority in all human institutions, ban any competitive view, and mandate exclusive indoctrination of their religious beliefs.
5. Bobbleheaded indoctrinees can recite all the memorized talking points, but don't have a clue what the science is.

Now THAT is a shining example of promoting a religious belief, and smearing the competition..

While i agree that many evolutionists do these techniques that you mention, i dont see any justice in using the Bible to coerce people into faith in that book.

So i see smear campaigns on all sides of the argument, not just evolutionists.

Besides debate does not ever really get to the heart of investigation. Debate is mostly an ignorant method of argument in general.

 

[usfan]

From the perspective of a scientist; You have a problem of intentional self-imposed ignorance of science based on an ancient mythological religious agenda.

Hardly. I'm not talking about any alledged bible thumpers, but the religious fervour that devotees to universal common descent have. I celebrate knowledge, the scientific method, and scrutiny. Religious True Believers from ANY camp, do violence to those ideals with mandated beliefs and forced compliance.

You do illustrate the knee jerk response of ad hom and indignation if anyone dares to question the sacred tenets of your faith..

While i agree that many evolutionists do these techniques that you mention, i dont see any justice in using the Bible to coerce people into faith in that book.
So i see smear campaigns on all sides of the argument, not just evolutionists.
Besides debate does not ever really get to the heart of investigation. Debate is mostly an ignorant method of argument in general.

The options are NOT:

Either believe in universal common descent, or the bible!

That is a false dichotomy. Why not use science? What's wrong with skepticism for unbased theories? The scientific method? Critical thinking? If we don't have scientific evidence, why leap ahead to a speculative conclusion, and mandate it as 'Settled Science!?'

The problem arises by trying to force empirical science to answer abstract ideas, or cosmic mysteries that are beyond the scope of scientific methodology. 'Why, how, who, and what', questions about our origins are philosophical questions, and science can only stare blankly, without observable, repeatable testing.

..and you are right about debate, as a method of discovery. It is mostly a game, where knowledge and understanding are trampled for the promotion of beliefs.

 

[ecco]

So the question arises...to what...the answer is.. the source of our being. You can argue all you want about what you think constitutes the source, but human knowledge is not the source of creation, but a creation in itself, by the Cosmos, and is therefore an integral of it...hence such terms as religion and yoga....reunion, union.

Not wrong, I accept that the common usage is now what it is, but because I am very interested in the subject, I like to dig deeper, how is that woo? Oh, I see you are an atheist, any teaching about the spiritual aspect of being to you I imagine is seen as woo.

My "woo" comment was in direct response to your:

So the question arises...to what...the answer is.. the source of our being. You can argue all you want about what you think constitutes the source, but human knowledge is not the source of creation, but a creation in itself, by the Cosmos, and is therefore an integral of it...hence such terms as religion and yoga....reunion, union.​

Specifically; human knowledge is a creation by the Cosmos and an integral part of it.

 

[ecco]

If anything is a 'religion!!' these days, it is the belief in universal common descent.. aka evolution.
1.No science to support it. It cannot be observed or repeated.

We'll just assume you cut and pasted that woefully ignorant comment.

2. The devoted followers defend their faith with jihadist zeal.

I can't remember any reports of Christian schools that teach Creationism being bombed by evolutionary biologists. So, obviously, you are misinformed about many things besides Evolution.

3. Any questioning of the facts or theories behind it are attacked with demeaning buzzwords. 'Denier!' 'Hater!' 'Superstitious fundie nutter!!'

Now you are just flat out stating things that easily refuted by a quick scan of previous posts. I know for a fact that at least two posters try very hard to answer questions. Since you must know this, I wonder how you can justify making comments that you know are untrue.

4. Devoted proselytizers gain positions of authority in all human institutions, ban any competitive view, and mandate exclusive indoctrination of their religious beliefs.

That is so wrong on so many levels that one has to wonder about your motives for posting it.

5. Bobbleheaded indoctrinees can recite all the memorized talking points, but don't have a clue what the science is.

Can you give an example of how Christian evolutionary biologists are indoctrinated to memorize talking points? Can you give an example of why you believe Christian evolutionary biologists don't understand science?

Now THAT is a shining example of promoting a religious belief, and smearing the competition..

Well, if pointing out willful ignorance on the part of some people is "smearing the competition", so be it.

 

[ecco]

The Atheism people don't have any source of knowledge,...

We have the same source of knowledge that is available to most people in most places - it's called education.

science does not support Atheism. Does it, please?

Science, as you know, tries to stay out of the god/no god argument. However, science has shown how you and I came into existence without resorting to GodDidIt.

 

[ecco]

Why not use science? What's wrong with skepticism for unbased theories? The scientific method? Critical thinking?

You should try it sometime.

 

[ecco]

The problem arises by trying to force empirical science to answer abstract ideas, or cosmic mysteries that are beyond the scope of scientific methodology.

It's a good thing that Copernicus did not believe that knowledge of the sun's motion was beyond the scope of scientific methodology.

It's a good thing that Newton did not believe that knowledge of motion was beyond the scope of scientific methodology.

It's a good thing that Darwin did not believe that knowledge of life was beyond the scope of scientific methodology.

It's a good thing that Einstein did not believe that knowledge of space and time was beyond the scope of scientific methodology.

 

[usfan]

We'll just assume you cut and pasted that woefully ignorant comment.

Assume whatever you want.. that is the progressive Way. But you are wrong. I tapped that out in a few minutes this morning. they are my words, and your accusation of plagiarism is false and unevidenced.

You should try it sometime.

Assumptions AND ad hominem.. favorite fallacies for the progressive indoctrinee!

 

[usfan]

science has shown how you and I came into existence

ROFL!!

You actually believe this?

This is absurd and false.. there are only plausible theories, as to our origins. Yours is just a religious belief.. with the accompanying hostility toward any alternate beliefs..

 

[ecco]

If anything is a 'religion!!' these days, it is the belief in universal common descent.. aka evolution.
1.No science to support it. It cannot be observed or repeated.

We'll just assume you cut and pasted that woefully ignorant comment.

Assume whatever you want.. that is the progressive Way. But you are wrong. I tapped that out in a few minutes this morning. they are my words, and your accusation of plagiarism is false and unevidenced.

I worded that the way I did, not to accuse you of plagiarism. I worded that the way I did, in an attempt to avoid stating that you were directly responsible for that woefully ignorant statement.

But, since you are admitting - OK.

 

[ecco]

Assumptions AND ad hominem.. favorite fallacies for the progressive indoctrinee!

Is stating that you should try science an attack on you? Judging by your posts showing your lack of knowledge about science, I thought I was offering friendly helpful advice.

 

[ecco]

ROFL!!

You actually believe this?

This is absurd and false.. there are only plausible theories, as to our origins. Yours is just a religious belief.. with the accompanying hostility toward any alternate beliefs..

Yep, "just a religious belief". Like thousands of others that have no real meaning. That is what you are saying, isn't it? That your religious beliefs have no meaning.

And you, with your Christian morals, don't show hostility towards alternative beliefs? Of course, you do.

You show hostility toward all Christian biologists who believe in and work in the fields of Evolution when you claim all believers in Evolution are atheists.

You show hostility toward all Christian paleontologists who believe in and work in the fields of Evolution when you claim all believers in Evolution are atheists.

Someone once said something about stone throwers.

 

[gnostic]

The Atheism people don't have any source of knowledge, science does not support Atheism. Does it, please?

This is just another rigged question and experience spoken out of utter ignorance.

No one claimed that atheism = science, except those ignorant religious people who refused to study science.

Atheism has nothing to do with science, and science has nothing to do with atheism.

Atheism only deal with theology question of whether any god exist or not. They believe it is “not”.

You don’t need science to accept or reject the existence of any deity.

To make it very plain to you, a Christian, Jew or Muslim don’t need science to believe in their god. Hindus don’t need science to believe in Shiva, Vishnu or Durga. And atheists don’t need science to disbelieve in god.

Science is irrelevant in the theism vs atheism contest.

Likewise, Natural Science don’t try to falsify or test theism or atheism, because theism and atheism are irrelevant to science.

Is that clear enough for you?

 

[usfan]

And you, with your Christian morals, don't show hostility tow

False accusation. I have shown hostility toward no one. I am questioning the assumption that you asserted:
'Science has proved our origins!'

Don't project your hostility on me..

You show hostility toward all Christian biologists who believe in and work in the fields of Evolution when you claim all believers in Evolution are atheists.

absurd projection. I have not attacked anyone, or accused falsely, as you do here.

You show hostility toward all Christian paleontologists who believe in and work in the fields of Evolution when you claim all believers in Evolution are atheists.

You project your hostility on me, and show the knee jerk reaction if anyone dares to question the sacred tenets of your faith.

You prove my point:

Universal common descent is a religious belief, not science.