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The curse of "converts"
- Thread starter Nyingjé Tso
- Start date
Here is a story from Mahabharata. The translation of this one leaves a little bit to be desired, but it shows that one does not need all the outward paraphernalia to worship God. It's what's in the heart and mind that counts.
Arjuna was regularly performing pooja for Athma lingam, but his brothers were not doing the same. He felt very proud of his devotional worship to God. As Sri Krishna wanted to control his ego, He took Arjuna to Mount Kailash, the abode of Shiva. There Arjuna saw large numbers of baskets of flowers being carried by the Boothaganas, Lord Shiva's attendants.
When Arjuna asked Sri Krishna about it, He asked Arjuna to go ask those carrying the flowers. He stopped one of them and asked about it. He got the reply that one of the Pancha Pandavas named Bheema has been offering these flowers in a pure heart to the Lord which they are carrying. Arjuna asked Sri Krishna that if the pure heart flowers of Bheema, who does not ever sit down to worship is this much, how much will it be for his own Athmalinga pooja which is performed every day.
Sri Krishna asked the Bhoothagana to show Arjuna his portion of the flowers offered. They showed a small mound of flowers lying in one corner. Arjuna asked Sri Krishna to explain this disparity. Sri Krishna explained that Bheema is thinking of God at all times. Whenever he sees a flower garden, he mentally offers all the flowers to Shiva as his offering and so it reaches Shiva the very next moment. Thus, Sri Krishna explains the inner self pooja called antharyagam.
Sharmaji
Member
What a beautiful story. I sometimes forget that the whole idea of worship is not merely an outward expression but goes much deeer and transcends our senses.
carmenara
Member
I don't have a room for pooja either nor do I have the religious or cultural freedom to express myself for the past two decades or so.
It didn't stop me from finally discovering activities and people that allow me to channel my spirituality and to destroy my fears.
And now I do go to temples big and small, I do not judge if they have some sort of cultural agenda as well, because the divine resides within your heart and what spiritual experiences or goals you have are yours alone.
People always ask me why do I go to temples, wear funny dresses and why I want to go to India next month... They question at their peril for I will tell them tales about how Durga and Saraswati played a huge part in transforming a hostile, destructive workplace into a caring and nurturing one.
My devotion isn't material it's repaying a gift for the wisdom of an ancient age. And others near me have learnt to respect that.
I still don't have a room for Pooja. Because I live in a country where only the rich can afford housing. And the poor are only becoming poorer due to the poison of capitalism. And that only makes my devotion stronger. For if spirituality helped one it would help all others as well.
That's all for now. Just sharing a little tale since your post reminded me of myself last year. To think, I waited a month before accepting an invitation to visit a temple, which turned out to be the wrong one for me due to cultural bias.
And then two weeks more while I pondered on the rules and etiquette of stepping into a sacred place on my own. That's all history though
Sharmaji
Member
Thanks a lot for telling me about your own personal experience. My story is much different from yours however I greatly appreciate your input and suggestions. If you go to India I hope you will find whatever answers you’re still seeking. It’s true that faith in a sense is not about showing off as that would in some way just strengthen the ego hence not lead to any kind of self-realization.I don't have a room for pooja either nor do I have the religious or cultural freedom to express myself for the past two decades or so.
It didn't stop me from finally discovering activities and people that allow me to channel my spirituality and to destroy my fears.
And now I do go to temples big and small, I do not judge if they have some sort of cultural agenda as well, because the divine resides within your heart and what spiritual experiences or goals you have are yours alone.
People always ask me why do I go to temples, wear funny dresses and why I want to go to India next month... They question at their peril for I will tell them tales about how Durga and Saraswati played a huge part in transforming a hostile, destructive workplace into a caring and nurturing one.
My devotion isn't material it's repaying a gift for the wisdom of an ancient age. And others near me have learnt to respect that.
I still don't have a room for Pooja. Because I live in a country where only the rich can afford housing. And the poor are only becoming poorer due to the poison of capitalism. And that only makes my devotion stronger. For if spirituality helped one it would help all others as well.
That's all for now. Just sharing a little tale since your post reminded me of myself last year. To think, I waited a month before accepting an invitation to visit a temple, which turned out to be the wrong one for me due to cultural bias.
And then two weeks more while I pondered on the rules and etiquette of stepping into a sacred place on my own. That's all history though
Welcome to the forum.
Failure is a temporary syndrome. There are always lessons to learn from all experiences. Why do you think people get encouraged to move near temples, or better yet, to help build one where none exists?
Cultural agenda? I don't understand. I'm one of 4 or 5 white people in a temple that gets a couple of thousand varying born Hindus and I never feel out of place.
Best wishes.
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Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
I have a question for you my Hindu friends. I am aware that Hindus believe different things, but wouldn't Vedanta and some other sects think getting the Dharma out to the world is important? That the Dharma contains knowledge concerning the salvation of beings, and that lack of Dharma has led us in some ways to where we are- Capitalist USA destroying the environment, and so on...?
There are only a few small groups within Hinduism that have accepted and copied the very Abrahamic notion of proselytising. Most Hindus take the attitude that it's out there, and those who are ready for it will find it. We are a patient tolerant lot.
Most Hindus also don't believe in the Abrahamic term 'salvation' either. Salvation from what?
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
Liberation from Samsara then. Moksha. I'm a native English speaker, so excuse me please for not always going to Sanskrit by habit
I do this with Buddhist terms also
Yes, but again, most believe it is inevitable. When souls aren't ready to hear it because of their evolution, they're not ready. We will have no more luck promoting Hinduism than JWs do promoting their faith. We let people come to us, not the other way around. That way we know they're open and ready for the message. Otherwise it's like talking to a brick wall.Liberation from Samsara then. Moksha. I'm a native English speaker, so excuse me please for not always going to Sanskrit by habit
I do this with Buddhist terms also
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
The 'converts' who are negative aren't converts at all, but pretenders.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
OK, you failed. Prepare well and try with more determination.
"Mā vichintaya, mā brūhi, māngikuru parābhavam"
(Do not think, do not say, do not accept defeat)
A line from the 'Bhilla Geeta' (an unfinished Saga by Aupmanyav in association with Ramaswamy Iyyengar).
"Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaḿ, viṣame samupasthitam;
anārya-juṣṭam asvargyam, akīrti-karam arjuna.
Klaibyaḿ mā sma gamaḥ pārtha, naitat tvayy upapadyate;
kṣudraḿ hṛdaya-daurbalyaḿ, tyaktvottiṣṭha parantapa."
BhagawdGita (2.2-3)
Krishna said: My dear Arjuna, how have these impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows the value of life. They lead not to higher planets but to infamy.
O son of Pṛthā, do not yield to this degrading impotence. It does not become you. Give up such petty weakness of heart and arise, O chastiser of the enemy.
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
That is part of 'Dharma'. No or unfinished 'dharma' without that. Salvation is from our own ignorance. No heaven or hell (as far as I am concerned). Why blame just US, China too is doing that. We are all equally responsible. Only the aboriginal forest-dwellers escape that blame. They are in tune with nature.
For those who know Hindi, Wikipedia has an excellent page on 'dharma'. I will try to get translation.
धृति: क्षमा दमोऽस्तेयं शौचमिन्द्रियनिग्रह:।
धीर्विद्या सत्यमक्रोधो दशकं धर्मलक्षणम्।। (Manusmriti 6.12)
Patience, Forgiveness, self-control, not stealing (usurping what belong to others), cleanliness (inside and out), control of senses, intelligence, knowledge, truth and peace.
अहिंसा सत्यमस्तेयं शौचमिन्द्रियनिग्रह:।
दानं दमो दया शान्ति: सर्वेषां धर्मसाधनम्।। (Yajnavalkya Smriti)
Non-violence, truth, not stealing, cleanliness, control of sense, charity, self-control, piety and peace.
धर्म के लक्षण - विकिपीडिया
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Sharmaji
Member
Cultural agenda in that a lot of events are obviously shaped by that as temples are a form of a community center for people living in the diaspora. There are not enough Hindus living here therefore it makes little to no sense to open more temples.
Sharmaji
Member
There is however the concept of Naraka which some claim is a place of eternal suffering hence believe it’s the same as hell in the sense of Abrahamic religions. There are many misunderstandings around it and I don’t think every Hindu believes in it anyways.
Depends a lot on the temple, that. They vary.
Sharmaji
Member
I was obviously speaking of the few so-called temples in my town I cannot comment on others.
Usually they're culturally attuned to the people who founded them. But that's rather natural. Larger ones, less so. That's been my experience anyway.