The debate of God.

[Riverwolf]

I’m not sure I would classify magic as not requiring an explanation. It just seems that people go out of their way to work God into the mix when there is no need. Evolution seems a lot more natural to me. But don’t get me wrong, I know there are things we don’t understand and I am not one to close my mind to possibilities. I just don’t believe man is on the right track with their religious beliefs.

I would say it's wrong to consider mythology to be history.

But it's possible to reconcile religion with science without declaring that everything we don't know about was done by God.

 

[Corkscrew]

I would say it's wrong to consider mythology to be history.

But it's possible to reconcile religion with science without declaring that everything we don't know about was done by God.

I absolutely agree. I also believe that if there is some entity, or as Einstein put it, “something behind the energy”, I would be amazed and disappointed to find that it is anything remotely similar to the entity that man has conjured up in the bible.

 

[Riverwolf]

I absolutely agree. I also believe that if there is some entity, or as Einstein put it, “something behind the energy”, I would be amazed and disappointed to find that it is anything remotely similar to the entity that man has conjured up in the bible.

It's unlikely to be anything like any of the personal gods.

 

[YellowFeather]

the core for belief in god is
drum role please.....



comfort


thank you
:curtsy:

FAITH is the key to believing in GOD. To have FAITH one has to understand the meaning of FAITH. Means you believe in things you cannot see. Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 6 But without Faith it is impossible to please God. for he that comes to God must believe that he is God, and he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[YellowFeather]

It's not God's argument nor God's problem. God prefers to stay out of the whole thing

God is not of the world as we speak, God only knows the individual that has Faith in him and keeps his commandments. The whole world lies in evil and is contolled by evil. 1 John 5:19.

 

[danieldemol]

But without Faith it is impossible to please God

Then God is unjust in my view.

 

[PearlSeeker]

But without Faith it is impossible to please God. for he that comes to God must believe that he is God, and he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

"The demons also believe and tremble." (James 2:19)

 

[YellowFeather]

Hebrews 11:6 But without Faith it is impossible to please God. for he that comes to God must believe that he is God, that he is a rewarder of them that seek him. Yes the demons to believe and tremble and that is because they know there life is coming to and end. That is because their belief is evil to God and is not in Faith. James 2: 20 But will thou, know man, that faith without works is DEAD.

 

[YellowFeather]

Then God is unjust in my view.

God is very strick and he does not want anyone that does not believe in him. God only wants the true believer that obeys him and follows his words to salvation. That takes work on the true believer to pull away from this evil world that is controlled by satan. 1 John 5:19

 

[I Am Hugh]

Then God is unjust in my view.

Okay. Why? How is he unjust and what is just?

 

[paarsurrey]

The debate of God.

Reason mere alone without its conjugal partner, in case of religion, Word of Revelation can never find G-d, please, right?

Regards

 

[danieldemol]

Okay. Why? How is he unjust and what is just?

"He" is unjust because there is plenty of contradictory evidence to the Bible found from numerous fields such as geology and genetics and yet still allegedly wants to destroy us for using our brains that were allegedly God given to follow the evidence away from the Bible in my view.

Justice would be accepting that we are the way we were made by others than ourselves and if punishment is due at all giving it to either himself or the Satan he allegedly created and/or allowed to inflict evil and suffering on us and no one else in my view.

 

[firedragon]

I feel as though the whole debate over God has been going the wrong way. Atheists many times give reasons why religions make no sense. Theists many times try and come up with scientific evidence for god. They work occasionaly, but I feel they aren't the correct ways of going about this.

I think it woul be best to figure out exactly why people believe what they do. What I mean by that is that every theist, of any religion, have their own personal reasons why they believe, and vice versa. I think we should get to the core of why people believe, and perhaps we can see more people becoming atheists, or (though I hope not) more people becoming theists

Does anyone disagree?

Why do you "hope" that theists become atheists? You sound like a hardcore evangelist. Could you explain why?

Nevertheless, it's not objective to say that every theist has his "own" reasons to believe in what they believe. There can never be billions of reasons, and you would never get to analyzing every reason ever. Also, you said that you hope atheists never become theists. What's the reason for that? I personally know a few atheists who became Muslims and then studied so much that they are prolific evangelists with excellent knowledge on the theology and philosophical arguments. I also know of a hardcore atheist who signed the humanist manifesto who became some sort of a theist or at least a deist.

Are you looking at this topic objectively? Please explain if you have some time. Thank you very much.

 

[Fool]

I feel as though the whole debate over God has been going the wrong way. Atheists many times give reasons why religions make no sense. Theists many times try and come up with scientific evidence for god. They work occasionaly, but I feel they aren't the correct ways of going about this.

I think it woul be best to figure out exactly why people believe what they do. What I mean by that is that every theist, of any religion, have their own personal reasons why they believe, and vice versa. I think we should get to the core of why people believe, and perhaps we can see more people becoming atheists, or (though I hope not) more people becoming theists

Does anyone disagree?

beliefs are something subjective given each believers observation of it's experience. first place they should be looking for this god thing is in the observer. negative/positive beliefs are just that, beliefs. atheists want something more substantial. if god is spirit, then observe the mind of the observer whether its an atheist or otherwise.

 

[I Am Hugh]

"He" is unjust because there is plenty of contradictory evidence to the Bible found from numerous fields such as geology and genetics and yet still allegedly wants to destroy us for using our brains that were allegedly God given to follow the evidence away from the Bible in my view.

How does that make God unjust? In my experience most unbelievers and skeptics think of God and the Bible as traditionally misrepresented by apostate religion. Judaism, Christianity, Islam. God wants us to use our brains our designed goal is to be like God, who's image we were created in. God doesn't want to destroy us, he wants to keep us from destroying ourselves. And he has. He will. God warns us not to believe every inspired expression (literally spirit; God breathed) but to test the inspired expression. (1 John 4:1)

John 17:3: This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

Acts 17:11: Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.

Proverbs 8:10: Take my discipline and not silver, and knowledge rather than choice gold.

Proverbs 16:16: The getting of wisdom is O how much better than gold! And the getting of understanding is to be chosen more than silver.

Ecclesiastes 1:13-14: And I set my heart to seek and explore wisdom in relation to everything that has been done under the heavens—the calamitous occupation that God has given to the sons of mankind in which to be occupied. I saw all the works that were done under the sun, and, look! everything was vanity and a striving after wind.

Ecclesiastes 1:18: For in the abundance of wisdom there is an abundance of vexation, so that he that increases knowledge increases pain.

Justice would be accepting that we are the way we were made by others than ourselves and if punishment is due at all giving it to either himself or the Satan he allegedly created and/or allowed to inflict evil and suffering on us and no one else in my view.

Satan (adversary with the definite article ha, the Satan) the Devil (slanderer, liar, deceiver) is an angel who was created without sin. He, like Adam, changed in that respect. His sin, his deception, was accepted by man thereby rejecting God. Men continue to do that. That is why there is evil and suffering.

 

[firedragon]

"He" is unjust because there is plenty of contradictory evidence to the Bible found from numerous fields such as geology and genetics and yet still allegedly wants to destroy us for using our brains that were allegedly God given to follow the evidence away from the Bible in my view.

Justice would be accepting that we are the way we were made by others than ourselves and if punishment is due at all giving it to either himself or the Satan he allegedly created and/or allowed to inflict evil and suffering on us and no one else in my view.

What if the Bible is false, but God exists? What if all of these religions and their so called scriptures are all B.S but God still exists? And he is still just.

 

[osgart]

Once you even establish that a God exists then you have to figure out who or what God is.

I think it's too much to ask why people believe in God because it's usually private, personal reasons and experiences, or a claim to revelation beyond rationality. They assume everyone is given an equal shot at knowing God, which is evidently false.

There's no objective, rational argument that proves a God exists, and we are extremely further away from identifying who that God is, using rationality.

Besides life doesn't exist in a fair and just way. Fairness and Justice have to be imposed on nature by humans, and that fails often.

Honestly life is a grande mystery, anything claimed to be knowledge beyond that is the philosophy of fallible humans. I have beliefs and convictions in an infinite and eternal foundational existence with intelligence and purposes of learning and exploring, but my certitude is not tangibly verifiable. Religion for me is a journey, never a matter of answered truth just waiting to be sought wholeheartedly. I've sought truth wholeheartedly for plenty of years. The best I've found was a general soul truth of objective morality in virtues that explains to me that good and evil do exist as human motives. No one is born knowing that good and evil exist. Everything humans know is human in its knowing.

Delusions of God are quite common though. I'm sure every believer has their very own why to it.

 

[BrightShadow]

FAITH is the key to believing in GOD. To have FAITH one has to understand the meaning of FAITH. Means you believe in things you cannot see. Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 6 But without Faith it is impossible to please God. for he that comes to God must believe that he is God, and he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

No point in addressing the OP as he/she is probably long gone!
So, lets address the resurrector of the original post.

Assuming Priscilla wrote the Hebrews - she was a co-conspirator with Paul and they started the rumor about Jesus being son of god. Thus they put many of Jesus' future follows on a false path. Normally I would not pay much heed to what Paul the false apostle or Priscilla had to say - however, I don't have any issues with these particular verses.

Bible is half truth! A lot of good teaching is mixed up with distortions and fabrications.

While "faith" is at the root of what it takes to please God but "faith" is subjective and could easily be misplaced.

We come to our own subjective conclusions to what we hear and what we read. Objective truth (God's word) could be out there but how we interpret or comprehend it - is subjective.

These verses from Hebrew only point out the importance of "faith" but misplaced "faith" could be just as bad as "no faith".

While "faith" is how you start believing in God but you should not partner anyone with God. IMO
Once you start having faith in Jesus to be son of God or something to that effect - your faith is corrupted and derailed. IMO

God has created us with a natural inclination towards recognizing and worshipping God and God alone. We are born with a moral compass as well. Every child is born knowing God. It is an inherited ability but for those who grow up denying the existence of God - our upbringing and environment obscures this ability and in some cases prevent it from manifesting or flourishing.
This is why when unbelievers or believers of other faith - accept Islam - they are called "reverts".

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I feel as though the whole debate over God has been going the wrong way. Atheists many times give reasons why religions make no sense. Theists many times try and come up with scientific evidence for god. They work occasionally, but I feel they aren't the correct ways of going about this.

I think it woul be best to figure out exactly why people believe what they do. What I mean by that is that every theist, of any religion, have their own personal reasons why they believe, and vice versa. I think we should get to the core of why people believe,

There are many factors that compel people to belief or unbelief.

We should never underestimate the power of upbringing. A child simply assumes they can trust adults, especially parents, friends, and people in their faith community. A parent says, "God hears your prayer, baby," or "God is just a myth," and the child accepts it simply because they think, "oh my mother would never lie to me." There are exceptions, of course, but by and large, we stay with the religious beliefs we grew up with.

There are exceptions to that rule. Some people have a strong desire to find the truth, and are somehow able to question what they have been taught. They are more likely than others to be open to new ideas. These traits are especially common in atheists, but you have religious people like this as well.

There are adults who find a new "religious home" for social and emotional reasons. It is not uncommon for lonely or hurting people to find comfort in a religious community, where someone finally cares.

There are those who convert because they want a united home with their new spouse. In such cases, while the marriage is what brought them there, it is not why they stay. They are perhaps more open to being convinced, but that's exactly what happens.

And finally, there are those people going through a personal crisis that have sudden dramatic transformations. This is where you get the people who give "testimonies" about how they lived on skid row, a slave to liquor, until they found Jesus. These kind of transformations happen in every religion, and inspire others.

and perhaps we can see more people becoming atheists, or (though I hope not) more people becoming theists

For a while, the number of religious people in the US was going down. Groups like "nones," "spiritual but not religious" and atheist/agnostic were on the rise. But the new surveys are showing that this trend has leveled off.

"The long-term trends on this measure are straightforward. The percentage of nones measured in Gallup surveys has risen from close to zero in the 1950s to about one-fifth of the U.S. adult population today. But over the past six years (2017-2022), the rise of the nones has stabilized. An average of 20% or 21% of Americans in Gallup surveys in each of these years say they don’t have a formal religious identity. We are not seeing the yearly increases that occurred in previous decades."

Slowdown in the Rise of Religious Nones

The percentage of Americans with no formal religious identity has increased dramatically since the 1950s, but that increase appears to have leveled off in Gallup's recent data.

news.gallup.com

 

[Madsaac]

I feel as though the whole debate over God has been going the wrong way. Atheists many times give reasons why religions make no sense. Theists many times try and come up with scientific evidence for god. They work occasionaly, but I feel they aren't the correct ways of going about this.

I think it woul be best to figure out exactly why people believe what they do. What I mean by that is that every theist, of any religion, have their own personal reasons why they believe, and vice versa. I think we should get to the core of why people believe, and perhaps we can see more people becoming atheists, or (though I hope not) more people becoming theists

Does anyone disagree?

I don’t think it would be best for theist to figure out exactly why they believe what they do because they may see that believing in gods that can perform miracles or people who can rise from the dead, a little far reaching.

I think a big reason why people believe in something because mum and/or dad did, pretty simple really. On occasion, someone may see the light as an adult but it’s about your upbringing