The Decline

[Hawkins]

Why is Christianity in decline?

Humans are creatures of education. Humans are systemactically forced into a secular education since our childhood as enforced by laws in most modern societies. That question boils down is there a lie which critically influenced our mind in this many year long education.

The biggest lie ever introduced through our education system is that, we need evidence to believe stuff to be factual. Atheists are all obessesed with the term evidence with no exception. Evidence however is a delussion. You can simply compile yourself a list of known facts then ask yourself where's your evidence. At the end, you have zero evidence on nothing, as humans (the mass majority) don't rely on evidence to get to truths. In a nutshell, only the extremely small amount of humans nominated as eyewitnesses actually have the evidence, all the rest of humankind actually have is faith!

Start with this,
Do you have the evidence that Joe Biden actually won the majority votes (or Trump, or JFK or Clinton or the Bushes)?

Oh don't leave out science,
Do you have the evidence that Jupiter is the largest (or the smallest) planet in our solar system?
Do you have the evidence that black holes exist?

 

[Sand Dancer]

Islam is hardly an elective religion.

Many are forced under threat of consequences hence the 'growth'.

Also they have a lot of kids.

 

[Rival]

Fundamentalist religion in developing nations such as African is not generally a good thing. Asia may retain Buddhist or Hindu flavor, so it may not be as bad as it is in Africa.

It's not fundamentalist,

Number of Catholics in Asia and Africa continues to rise

The Catholic Church grew by 15 million people worldwide in 2019.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

The number of Catholics in Africa grew by more than eight million in 2019, for a total of around 19% of the population, while in Asia, which has 4.5 billion people, Catholics make up just 3.31% of the population, at 149.1 million.

[...]

The prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples added that “these past years, we have seen in Asia, in terms of proportion, percentage, an increase in the number of baptisms, and also in entry to seminaries and religious life.”

“In terms of numbers, [it is] still small, but in terms of percentage proportion, [it] is large,” he said. “And we, of course, thank the Lord.”

A story of growth and decline

David Goodhew examines why some parts of the Anglican Communion are growing fast and others are not

www.churchtimes.co.uk

Note that the figure for Europe is greatly boosted by the large number of the English population who are baptised Anglicans. This figure is markedly dropping, suggesting that Anglicanism’s shift to the global South may be still more pronounced in future.

Areas that have seen strong growth include: Nigeria, Singapore, the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), Kenya, and parts of South America. The first Anglican diocese in the DRC came into being in 1972, with 30 clergy, 25 parishes, and 30 churches. As of 2015, Anglicanism in the DRC had nine dioceses, 545 clergy, 424 parishes, and a membership of about 237,000. Nigeria, Singapore, and South America are discussed elsewhere in this article. What is important to recognise is the scale and speed of the growth in recent decades.

Many other countries are seeing growth, but of a more modest nature. The Ghanaian Church grew from about 100,000 to about 269,000 between 1970 and 2010. In the same period, Ghana’s population rose from about 8.6 million to 24.7 million. This means that the Church has grown in size, but shrunk as a proportion of the population. Parts of Ghanaian Anglicanism have grown vigorously, but, overall, it has grown markedly less than many other African countries, and less than many other denominations in Ghana. Anglicanism in a range of other countries, such as Malawi and Zambia, appears to have a similar trajectory.

During the same period, African Anglicans grew from 16 per cent of all Anglicans worldwide in 1970 to 58 per cent in 2010. Anglicanism within Asia has also grown rapidly, although it remains small compared with the rest of the Communion.

 

[SalixIncendium]

American Christianity is declining.

Worldwide it is growing, especially in Africa and Asia.

I did a Google search and am unable to find any reliable data newer than 2011 to support or refute this. Do you have anything that shows this trend continuing in the last 12 years?

 

[Rival]

I did a Google search and am unable to find any reliable data newer than 2011 to support or refute this. Do you have anything that shows this trend continuing in the last 12 years?

See above, the Catholic article was written in 2021, the Anglican one in 2017.

Or maybe people aren't looking at these Churches?

 

[Fool]

"Christianity, the largest religion in the United States, experienced a 20th-century high of 91% of the total population in 1976. This declined to 73.7% by 2016 and 64% in 2022."

Just found this online.

And this other link seems to agree, despite the fact that I'm not a huge fan of Pews questions: In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace



Why is Christianity in decline?

Are these people that were always atheists but now feel free to proclaim so? Are people actively leaving the church behind for better spiritual pursuits (for them)? Is Satan winning?

I have my ideas but I'll leave them at the doorstep for now.

the love of most eventually grows cold

 

[Fool]

There are real Christians who follow the Sermon on the Mount and help the poor, those in prison etc. They don't make a lot of noise so it seems that they don't exist unless you happen to know some or the work they quietly do.

then you have those who are seeking some spiritual high only for themselves and apart from loving thy neighbor. god never comes home, nor is ever realized in otherness not as self

 

[SalixIncendium]

See above, the Catholic article was written in 2021, the Anglican one in 2017.

Or maybe people aren't looking at these Churches?

I saw that post after I posted. I also find a PEW article from 2015 that has projections through 2050 that indicate the trends you state here. Both North America and Europe offset that growth, however.

I'm skeptical of articles coming from Christian groups and tend to lend more credibility to secular sources that have no horse in the race.

 

[Rival]

I'm skeptical of articles coming from Christian groups and tend to lend more credibility to secular sources that have no horse in the race.

I do find the Catholic and Anglican ones, at least here in the UK, to be fairly reliable. The Anglican Church is usually quite self-deprecating at times, to be honest. There are two main Catholic magazines here, The Catholic Herald and the Tablet, both being quite 'left-wing' for US readers and skewing in favour of migration, anti-death penalty etc, more welfare, aid and so on, and have a strong focus on Catholicism outside of Europe. They both have somewhat liberal 19th c. origins and contain good discussion. Traditionally the Herald is conservative and the Tablet liberal but I've found both socially and economically left-skewing, as Catholic doctrine is. They're worth taking a look at for this kind of thing, imo.

The Anglican Church being the state church is not really inclined to invent numbers that could be easily disputed by the state.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Humans are creatures of education. Humans are systemactically forced into a secular education since our childhood as enforced by laws in most modern societies. That question boils down is there a lie which critically influenced our mind in this many year long education.

The biggest lie ever introduced through our education system is that, we need evidence to believe stuff to be factual. Atheists are all obessesed with the term evidence with no exception. Evidence however is a delussion. You can simply compile yourself a list of known facts then ask yourself where's your evidence. At the end, you have zero evidence on nothing, as humans (the mass majority) don't rely on evidence to get to truths. In a nutshell, only the extremely small amount of humans nominated as eyewitnesses actually have the evidence, all the rest of humankind actually have is faith!

Not even close!!

It is not necessary to be able to build an iphone in order to know that they work. You don't have to understand the chemistry behind baking to know how to get bread to rise. You need yeast, something to feed it and warmth -- no prayers and mumbo-jumbo required, it'll rise just fine without.

Do you believe in spontaneous human combustion? Yeti? Chupa Cabra? Faith healing (ever see one of those frauds grow back a limb? hell, tons of animals can do that with ease.)? How about the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn? I mean, you can learn as much about them through reading books as you can learn about Jesus or Moses or Muhammad through reading other books -- so why believe one and not the other? Because you actually KNOW the difference between evidence (even if it's second-hand, that you didn't gather for yourself), and myth and hear-say, even though you don't admit it here.

I went to Sunday school as a very little kid, and even then I knew that the stories I was being told from the Bible were just that -- stories, the same as I got from my books on Babar or Charlotte's Web or The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

Just so, even without any medical training at all, the vast, vast majority of people, when their children or parents are ill, go to the doctor or the hospital, not to the faith healer.

 

[PureX]

All the reasons so far mentioned for the decline of religious Christianity are certainly legitimate. But I would refrain from assuming that all those rejecting religious Christianity are becoming atheists or Pagans of some sort. I think many of them retain their spiritual core ideals even as they reject the religious dogmas and institutions that have lately been exposed as the fraudulent, oppressive, and socially abusive institutions that they are. Most remain theists, I think, though of a less specifically identifiable type.

 

[Audie]

Christianity is in decline mainly because it just tries way too hard to convince itself that it already is something that it actively avoids becoming. Because it is a stubborn creed and dares its own followers to find better options. Turns out that some do.

I don't think the average Christian even has the incentive to find out whether he is a believer. Most churches and even families are not interested in making that question, but rather in avoiding or even ridiculing it. The main force keeping Christianity whole and alive isn't belief in Jesus, but instead willingness to be part of a social group that is expected to be suportive without asking too many questions or being too controlling.

Most people who leave Christian churches apparently are not unbelievers, just unconfortable with the realities of the actual churches and how they reflect on their social lives and heatfelt feelings. It is not unusual for them to feel that their former churches cause too much division and unpleasant criticism for no obvious good reason. Whether they still consider themselves Christians after choosing to be apart from any churches I don't know; if I have to guess, most of them don't really know either and often don't much care either.

I find that state of things regrettable. A well-maintained, well-cared Church can be and should be a marvelous asset to its community. But it is very true that many of the most visible churches don't qualify far as I can tell.

What value do you see in Christianity?
I don't see any at all for myself.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Do you have the evidence that Joe Biden actually won the majority votes (or Trump, or JFK or Clinton or the Bushes)?
Oh don't leave out science,
Do you have the evidence that Jupiter is the largest (or the smallest) planet in our solar system?
Do you have the evidence that black holes exist?

You are a different kind of Hawkins.

 

[LuisDantas]

What value do you see in Christianity?
I don't see any at all for myself.

There are some good things among Christianity if one manages to cut through the excessive lending of significance to theism and the worrisome attachment to superstition and is fortunate enough to connect to a group of practicioners that exercises discernment and sincere pursuit of morality.

Granted, the doctrine and overall structure rarely help. But it is possible, and it does happen.

Some people are probably better off as detached believers. But I would much rather see people let go of superstition in order to achieve religion than see they let go of organized groups in order to protect simple belief.

 

[Rival]

I don't see any at all for myself.

It led to the creation of the modern Western World.

 

[Audie]

There are some good things among Christianity if one manages to cut through the excessive lending of significance to theism and the worrisome attachment to superstition and is fortunate enough to connect to a group of practicioners that exercises discernment and sincere pursuit of morality.

Granted, the doctrine and overall structure rarely help. But it is possible, and it does happen.

Some people are probably better off as detached believers. But I would much rather see people let go of superstition in order to achieve religion than see they let go of organized groups in order to protect simple belief.

Some good things...like what?

 

[Sand Dancer]

That first photo seems like a **** take; "God Hates You." Really??
Sadly, I assume the photo is actually "serious."

Westboro Baptist Church is behind the nasty signs.

 

[LuisDantas]

It led to the creation of the modern Western World.

Did it? We have to consider what could reasonably be expected to happen without it.

Christianity does not exist in a vacuum, and its existence can, does and did hinder and stymie as well as encourage and promote. It has certainly left a mark and shaped to some extent much of what exists today; but that also means that alternate possibilities where inhibited by it.

IMO Christianity, as well as Islam, has a lot of harm indeed to answer for that most of their conceivable alternatives would likely not have promoted. First and foremost, the tireless promotion of the idea that superstitious theism is some sort of moral value to be protected, presumed and even taught at a tender age to helpless chidren at the mercy of their parents and social groups.

It is very, very difficult to believe that we all are somehow better off with that ongoing scar than we would be with a random alternative scenario. It has even harmed the very usefulness of the word "religion", which is now in equal parts valued and despised.

 

[Sand Dancer]

It's not fundamentalist,

Number of Catholics in Asia and Africa continues to rise

The Catholic Church grew by 15 million people worldwide in 2019.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

The number of Catholics in Africa grew by more than eight million in 2019, for a total of around 19% of the population, while in Asia, which has 4.5 billion people, Catholics make up just 3.31% of the population, at 149.1 million.

[...]

The prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples added that “these past years, we have seen in Asia, in terms of proportion, percentage, an increase in the number of baptisms, and also in entry to seminaries and religious life.”

“In terms of numbers, [it is] still small, but in terms of percentage proportion, [it] is large,” he said. “And we, of course, thank the Lord.”

A story of growth and decline

David Goodhew examines why some parts of the Anglican Communion are growing fast and others are not

www.churchtimes.co.uk

Note that the figure for Europe is greatly boosted by the large number of the English population who are baptised Anglicans. This figure is markedly dropping, suggesting that Anglicanism’s shift to the global South may be still more pronounced in future.

Areas that have seen strong growth include: Nigeria, Singapore, the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), Kenya, and parts of South America. The first Anglican diocese in the DRC came into being in 1972, with 30 clergy, 25 parishes, and 30 churches. As of 2015, Anglicanism in the DRC had nine dioceses, 545 clergy, 424 parishes, and a membership of about 237,000. Nigeria, Singapore, and South America are discussed elsewhere in this article. What is important to recognise is the scale and speed of the growth in recent decades.

Many other countries are seeing growth, but of a more modest nature. The Ghanaian Church grew from about 100,000 to about 269,000 between 1970 and 2010. In the same period, Ghana’s population rose from about 8.6 million to 24.7 million. This means that the Church has grown in size, but shrunk as a proportion of the population. Parts of Ghanaian Anglicanism have grown vigorously, but, overall, it has grown markedly less than many other African countries, and less than many other denominations in Ghana. Anglicanism in a range of other countries, such as Malawi and Zambia, appears to have a similar trajectory.

During the same period, African Anglicans grew from 16 per cent of all Anglicans worldwide in 1970 to 58 per cent in 2010. Anglicanism within Asia has also grown rapidly, although it remains small compared with the rest of the Communion.

That is good to know. I have seen lots of info on the internet regarding the fundamentalist, anti-LGBT rhetoric, so it's out there too.

 

[LuisDantas]

Some good things...like what?

Mainly the opportunity to connect with other human beings with a reasonable chance of mutual support and learning.

Yes, it sort of goes against the doctrine proper, but people can and do improve on the doctrines that they are taught quite routinely.

If only Christianity had achieved enough wisdom to encourage and benefit from that... but more often than not it does the very opposite.