The Deep

[sandy whitelinger]

I didn't say "Biblical evidence," I said, "Biblical scholarship," (repeat) scholarship. But here goes:

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, Vol. 1, Abingdon, 1962; pg. 813.
The Interpreter's Bible, Vol. 1, Abingdom, 1952; pg. 467.

Both sources exegete the term "deep" (tehom, in Heb) and equate it to a philological equivalent of Tiamat, the chaos monster in the Babylonian creation myth.

I could go on, but...why?

Why? Maybe curious minds want to know. Since I can't get my hands on the above tomes perhaps you could give me the Cliff's Notes version.

 

[sojourner]

Ummmm, let me clarify...can you offer this Biblical scholarship for our review and enlightenment?

I've done my research and presented you with the references you asked for. Now it's your turn to look it up. I even gave you page numbers, plus a little synopsis of the findings.

My work here is complete!
:super:

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I've done my research and presented you with the references you asked for. Now it's your turn to look it up. I even gave you page numbers, plus a little synopsis of the findings.

My work here is complete!
:super:

Well thank you for calling and sharing.

 

[sojourner]

Well thank you for calling and sharing.

You're welcome! I'm here to help.

 

[sojourner]

Why? Maybe curious minds want to know. Since I can't get my hands on the above tomes perhaps you could give me the Cliff's Notes version.

I thought I did:

Both sources exegete the term "deep" (tehom, in Heb) and equate it to a philological equivalent of Tiamat, the chaos monster in the Babylonian creation myth.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I thought I did...

I was kinda hoping for some insight into how the might have exegeted it. :yes:

Did they throw runes or what? Again, I'm not sure I can get my hands on those books.:no:

 

[sojourner]

I was kinda hoping for some insight into how the might have exegeted it. :yes:

Did they throw runes or what? Again, I'm not sure I can get my hands on those books.:no:

I'll have to answer that later. My books are in a completely different place than I am right now.
:grill:

 

[sojourner]

'K.
According to the Interpreter's Dictionary, it's a term that refers chiefly to the primeval ocean. In Mesopotamian literature, the Hebrew word is related to the Akkadian Tiamat, as I said before.

In Ugaritic literature, the term is used of El's dwelling place, or the ocean, beside which El lives.

In the OT, the word designates the primeval waters of creation, in which the mythical background has been suppressed, or at least in which it is not pominent.
Also in survivals of the myth of a primeval struggle between YHWH and the forces of chaos.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

'K.
According to the Interpreter's Dictionary, it's a term that refers chiefly to the primeval ocean. In Mesopotamian literature, the Hebrew word is related to the Akkadian Tiamat, as I said before.

In Ugaritic literature, the term is used of El's dwelling place, or the ocean, beside which El lives.

In the OT, the word designates the primeval waters of creation, in which the mythical background has been suppressed, or at least in which it is not pominent.
Also in survivals of the myth of a primeval struggle between YHWH and the forces of chaos.

Thanks. Water it is. Now when was it created in the biblical sense. Was it part of earth, heaven or both?

 

[sojourner]

Thanks. Water it is. Now when was it created in the biblical sense. Was it part of earth, heaven or both?

Water is an ancient symbol for chaos. The chaos existed before God began to create. Some say that the primordial chaos, or ocean, was there before creation, and that creation was, in part, God bringing order out of that chaos.
It's just not as cut-and-dried as most people think. The theology surrounding the creation -- even the very first words themselves -- are hard to pin down for several reasons. First of all, there's just no good translation for "In the beginning..." Second, the creation story is such a blend of several ancient creation myths, there's just no real sorting them out. Remember, these stories were told before the Hebrew religion emerged. El is a Canaanite, not a Hebrew god.
The creation story is one of my favorites, because it's so involved, and really sets up the theology for the whole rest of the Bible.

 

[S-word]

I didn't say "Biblical evidence," I said, "Biblical scholarship," (repeat) scholarship. But here goes:

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, Vol. 1, Abingdon, 1962; pg. 813.
The Interpreter's Bible, Vol. 1, Abingdom, 1952; pg. 467.

Both sources exegete the term "deep" (tehom, in Heb) and equate it to a philological equivalent of Tiamat, the chaos monster in the Babylonian creation myth.

I could go on, but...why?

I see you use man made dictionaries to interprete God's word for you, rather than the spirit who reveals all things.

To the written recorded words of God, there has been added many, many erroneous interpretations by men, who in earlies times did not have the required data to understand the hidden truths that have come down to us from above (The future).

Such as the story of creation which, when interpretated in the Light of the scientific information that has been gathered over the many centuries, make so much more sense than the myths of men who were struggling to put form and terminology to the futuristic visions they had received, for which, words to interprete such things had not in their times as yet developed in the vocabulary of mankind.

Those added erroneous interpretations and in some cases, downright false additions to God's word, are what Jesus refers to as the yeast of the Pharisees that has been added to the pure unleavened bread that has come down to us.

Because of that added yeast, the true flavour of the bread from heaven cannot be experienced by the physical minds of men upon whom you rely for your interpretations of God's word.

Just as we of today, in a state of hypnosis or deep meditation, can enter the Kingdom of God within us where time and space do not exist, and there, to merge with a living mind of one of our genetic ancestors and experience the life and times of their position in the body of God who encompasses all space-time.

And sometimes, from our seemingly comotosed body in the present, express that which we are experiencing while merged with the mind of our past, and express those experiences in the language of our ancient ancestor; a language which is totally unfamiliar to us and the world of today.

Meanwhile, our ancient ancestor of the past, babbles incoherent rubbish (Sometimes in the language of the futuristic mind with which they are merged) in their attempt to put form and terminology to the futuristic visions received from the mind of their future generations who do not exist in their space-time.

It is the spirits of my future generations, with whom I am united, who reveal to me the truth in God's word. You would be well advised to empty yourself of all preconceived ideas as to the reality of God, and stand before your invisible teacher as a little child, an empty and receptive vessel into which can be poured the waters of eternal life.

And so my friend, come soar with me
To the outer limits of reality
This universe, though wide it seems
Is but the shadow of our dreams.
We're naught but knowledge in these tents
Refined through pain and punishment
We're the hive of man, and neath his Rod
We are one, we're the Son of God.
The past, the present, the future is He
He was, He is and He will be
And heaven is, but a point in time
To where the spirit in man must climb
Eventually, when He's there at last
And stands and gazes on His past
And takes his throne prepared in heaven
Then all His past will be forgiven.
I Am Who I Am, the die is cast
For I was created by my past
And we who we are this very day
Determine His future in everyway
If my past were changed, then who would I be?
One thing's for certain, I wouldn't be me....By S-word.
__________________________________________
______________________

Come, travel with me on a journey through time
Not in some capsule, but in our mind
To the innermost sanctuary will we descend
To that single cell from which your body began
In the Holy of Holies where all is one
Where all of space and time is joined
We'll mingle there with other minds
From other lands, in other times.
Minds of the past who seem dead and gone
And minds of the future which are yet unborn
For they in their time, whether here on this world
Or some distant planet to which they've been lured
Will enter their innermost sanctuary too
And there perhaps, they'll merge with you.
Ah! To travel through space in the wink of an eye
Merged with your child on some world way up high
And if this is but madness? Then madness it be,
So come my mad brethren; come, follow me.....BY S-word.

 

[Runewolf1973]

S-word, I like your poetry. Sorry, could not frubal you, the system would not let me.

 

[S-word]

S-word, I like your poetry. Sorry, could not frubal you, the system would not let me.

That's alright mate, I would prefer your compliments any day, before some silly frubals. Thank you my friend.

 

[sojourner]

I see you use man made dictionaries to interprete God's word for you, rather than the spirit who reveals all things.

To the written recorded words of God, there has been added many, many erroneous interpretations by men, who in earlies times did not have the required data to understand the hidden truths that have come down to us from above (The future).

Such as the story of creation which, when interpretated in the Light of the scientific information that has been gathered over the many centuries, make so much more sense than the myths of men who were struggling to put form and terminology to the futuristic visions they had received, for which, words to interprete such things had not in their times as yet developed in the vocabulary of mankind.

Those added erroneous interpretations and in some cases, downright false additions to God's word, are what Jesus refers to as the yeast of the Pharisees that has been added to the pure unleavened bread that has come down to us.

Because of that added yeast, the true flavour of the bread from heaven cannot be experienced by the physical minds of men upon whom you rely for your interpretations of God's word.

Just as we of today, in a state of hypnosis or deep meditation, can enter the Kingdom of God within us where time and space do not exist, and there, to merge with a living mind of one of our genetic ancestors and experience the life and times of their position in the body of God who encompasses all space-time.

And sometimes, from our seemingly comotosed body in the present, express that which we are experiencing while merged with the mind of our past, and express those experiences in the language of our ancient ancestor; a language which is totally unfamiliar to us and the world of today.

Meanwhile, our ancient ancestor of the past, babbles incoherent rubbish (Sometimes in the language of the futuristic mind with which they are merged) in their attempt to put form and terminology to the futuristic visions received from the mind of their future generations who do not exist in their space-time.

It is the spirits of my future generations, with whom I am united, who reveal to me the truth in God's word. You would be well advised to empty yourself of all preconceived ideas as to the reality of God, and stand before your invisible teacher as a little child, an empty and receptive vessel into which can be poured the waters of eternal life.

And so my friend, come soar with me
To the outer limits of reality
This universe, though wide it seems
Is but the shadow of our dreams.
We're naught but knowledge in these tents
Refined through pain and punishment
We're the hive of man, and neath his Rod
We are one, we're the Son of God.
The past, the present, the future is He
He was, He is and He will be
And heaven is, but a point in time
To where the spirit in man must climb
Eventually, when He's there at last
And stands and gazes on His past
And takes his throne prepared in heaven
Then all His past will be forgiven.
I Am Who I Am, the die is cast
For I was created by my past
And we who we are this very day
Determine His future in everyway
If my past were changed, then who would I be?
One thing's for certain, I wouldn't be me....By S-word.
__________________________________________
______________________

Come, travel with me on a journey through time
Not in some capsule, but in our mind
To the innermost sanctuary will we descend
To that single cell from which your body began
In the Holy of Holies where all is one
Where all of space and time is joined
We'll mingle there with other minds
From other lands, in other times.
Minds of the past who seem dead and gone
And minds of the future which are yet unborn
For they in their time, whether here on this world
Or some distant planet to which they've been lured
Will enter their innermost sanctuary too
And there perhaps, they'll merge with you.
Ah! To travel through space in the wink of an eye
Merged with your child on some world way up high
And if this is but madness? Then madness it be,
So come my mad brethren; come, follow me.....BY S-word.

:biglaugh:
I see you're using the sad, tired, old "interpretations of men do not trump my own spiritual experience" argument.
Where do you think the Bible came from? From interpretations of men. When we read the Bible, that's what we're reading. Therefore, it only makes sense to read it critically and to garner as much information as we can from the experts in such.

I actually like your metaphysical take on things. And, gratefully, that's one way we can read the Bible. But it can never take the place of exegesis. It's not meant to. Hammers are great if you want to pound a nail into a board. But if the carpenter injures his eye in the process, the Board of Opthamologists do not advocate the use of that hammer to fix it.

Once we've come to an understanding of what it is we're dealing with, then we can select the right tool for what we want to accomplish. We usually need several different kinds of reading in order to plumb the depths of scripture.

 

[Free4all]

John who?

Book of Revelation

 

[S-word]

:biglaugh:

I see you're using the sad, tired, old "interpretations of men do not trump my own spiritual experience" argument.
Where do you think the Bible came from? From interpretations of men. When we read the Bible, that's what we're reading.

I see, then you don't believe 2 Peter 1: 20-21, No one can explain by himself a prophecy in scripture. for no prophetic message ever came just from the will of man, but men were under the controll of the Holy Spirit as they spoke the message that came from God.

Or 2 Timothy 3: 16, All scripture is inspired by God etc, I won't bother going into all the other scriptures that show that the Bible which is the Word of the living God is not the interpretation of men, but when you read the Bible you are reading the words of God as written and spoken by men who were under the controll of God's spirit.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Water is an ancient symbol for chaos. The chaos existed before God began to create. Some say that the primordial chaos, or ocean, was there before creation, and that creation was, in part, God bringing order out of that chaos.
It's just not as cut-and-dried as most people think. The theology surrounding the creation -- even the very first words themselves -- are hard to pin down for several reasons. First of all, there's just no good translation for "In the beginning..." Second, the creation story is such a blend of several ancient creation myths, there's just no real sorting them out. Remember, these stories were told before the Hebrew religion emerged. El is a Canaanite, not a Hebrew god.
The creation story is one of my favorites, because it's so involved, and really sets up the theology for the whole rest of the Bible.

So when the spirit of God "moved" over the face of the waters, and the Hebrew sense of the word for moved implies more that just a flyover, was God bring order to the chaos at that time?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I see you use man made dictionaries to interprete God's word for you, rather than the spirit who reveals all things.

To the written recorded words of God, there has been added many, many erroneous interpretations by men, who in earlies times did not have the required data to understand the hidden truths that have come down to us from above (The future).

Such as the story of creation which, when interpretated in the Light of the scientific information that has been gathered over the many centuries, make so much more sense than the myths of men who were struggling to put form and terminology to the futuristic visions they had received, for which, words to interprete such things had not in their times as yet developed in the vocabulary of mankind.

Those added erroneous interpretations and in some cases, downright false additions to God's word, are what Jesus refers to as the yeast of the Pharisees that has been added to the pure unleavened bread that has come down to us.

Because of that added yeast, the true flavour of the bread from heaven cannot be experienced by the physical minds of men upon whom you rely for your interpretations of God's word.

Just as we of today, in a state of hypnosis or deep meditation, can enter the Kingdom of God within us where time and space do not exist, and there, to merge with a living mind of one of our genetic ancestors and experience the life and times of their position in the body of God who encompasses all space-time.

And sometimes, from our seemingly comotosed body in the present, express that which we are experiencing while merged with the mind of our past, and express those experiences in the language of our ancient ancestor; a language which is totally unfamiliar to us and the world of today.

Meanwhile, our ancient ancestor of the past, babbles incoherent rubbish (Sometimes in the language of the futuristic mind with which they are merged) in their attempt to put form and terminology to the futuristic visions received from the mind of their future generations who do not exist in their space-time.

It is the spirits of my future generations, with whom I am united, who reveal to me the truth in God's word. You would be well advised to empty yourself of all preconceived ideas as to the reality of God, and stand before your invisible teacher as a little child, an empty and receptive vessel into which can be poured the waters of eternal life.

And so my friend, come soar with me
To the outer limits of reality
This universe, though wide it seems
Is but the shadow of our dreams.
We're naught but knowledge in these tents
Refined through pain and punishment
We're the hive of man, and neath his Rod
We are one, we're the Son of God.
The past, the present, the future is He
He was, He is and He will be
And heaven is, but a point in time
To where the spirit in man must climb
Eventually, when He's there at last
And stands and gazes on His past
And takes his throne prepared in heaven
Then all His past will be forgiven.
I Am Who I Am, the die is cast
For I was created by my past
And we who we are this very day
Determine His future in everyway
If my past were changed, then who would I be?
One thing's for certain, I wouldn't be me....By S-word.
__________________________________________
______________________

Come, travel with me on a journey through time
Not in some capsule, but in our mind
To the innermost sanctuary will we descend
To that single cell from which your body began
In the Holy of Holies where all is one
Where all of space and time is joined
We'll mingle there with other minds
From other lands, in other times.
Minds of the past who seem dead and gone
And minds of the future which are yet unborn
For they in their time, whether here on this world
Or some distant planet to which they've been lured
Will enter their innermost sanctuary too
And there perhaps, they'll merge with you.
Ah! To travel through space in the wink of an eye
Merged with your child on some world way up high
And if this is but madness? Then madness it be,
So come my mad brethren; come, follow me.....BY S-word.

How nice. Too bad God can't control his beings handling His word any better than that.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Hammers are great if you want to pound a nail into a board. But if the carpenter injures his eye in the process, the Board of Opthamologists do not advocate the use of that hammer to fix it.

"It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw." -Calvin

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Book of Revelation

I missed all of this...

I don't know, but it's the thick layer of ice that John talks about and is due north 100,000,000,??? light years.

..in Revelation. Could you help me out here?