The default position...

[leibowde84]

An 'agnostic' would be uncomfortable with either answer. An 'atheist' would be comfortable with the 'No' answer....that's an important difference. Anyway, I 'get' your technical argument but that doesn't change the colloquial use of words.

But, most people who identify as atheists merely lack a belief in God. They don't actively believe that no god or gods can exist. Many of them will claim that there is merely insufficient evidence. Don't you think that these atheists would prefer the definition used in the dictionary?

Also, can you cite where you are getting your definition of these terms from? Or are you just going by how you have come to subjectively think the terms are used in common discourse?

 

[outhouse]

But, most people who identify as atheists merely lack a belief in God. They don't actively believe that no god or gods can exist.

This brings up a great point in conscious rejection and belief.

I did at one time have a belief there was no god, but with knowledge I no longer have a belief of any kind.

Its like math. I don't believe 2 is the answer to 1 + 1 = I know it is 2.

 

[leibowde84]

This brings up a great point in conscious rejection and belief.

I did at one time have a belief there was no god, but with knowledge I no longer have a belief of any kind.

Its like math. I don't believe 2 is the answer to 1 + 1 = I know it is 2.

and forgive me if this is a stupid question, but you do identify as atheists correct?

 

[outhouse]

and forgive me if this is a stupid question, but you do identify as atheists correct?

Strong as they get. I see exactly how man has defined the concepts through mythology, and know the evolutionary concepts man has made.

 

[leibowde84]

Strong as they get. I see exactly how man has defined the concepts through mythology, and know the evolutionary concepts man has made.

I agree, I just think its fun.

 

[outhouse]

I agree, I just think its fun.

Yep, have a passion for it enough to study advanced material. Its all ammo is a good debate, knowledge is king, just like a court battle

 

[Bunyip]

Are you saying 'agnosticism' is a subcategory of 'atheism'. Technically, you might make an argument but they words have different meaning in colloquial speech.

Theist: Believes God exists
Agnostic: Is not sure if God exists
Atheist: Does not believe God exists

This is the colloquial use of the words.

Atheist/theist speaks to what a person BELIEVES. Agnostic/gnostic speaks to what a person KNOWS.

Most atheists are agnostic. Atheism not being a knowledge claim is essentially agnostic.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why does this create a problem in your mind?

Because I'm not an atheist. I don't hold a position towards either end. Atheism does not describe my views, and theism does not describe my views.
It creates a problem when people try to claim my views are something they aren't.
As I said earlier, some have moved beyond the atheist/theist dichotomy.

 

[Curious George]

Atheist/theist speaks to what a person BELIEVES. Agnostic/gnostic speaks to what a person KNOWS.

Most atheists are agnostic. Atheism not being a knowledge claim is essentially agnostic.

And what of a person who believes both God exists and God does not exist?

 

[Bunyip]

Because I'm not an atheist. I don't hold a position towards either end. Atheism does not describe my views, and theism does not describe my views.
It creates a problem when people try to claim my views are something they aren't.
As I said earlier, some have moved beyond the atheist/theist dichotomy.

But that doesn't make sense. 'Moving beyond' a dichotomy?

If you are not a theist, you are an atheist - why is that so difficult? It is an either/or proposition. If you do not hold the position of belief in a theistic god - you are atheist.

 

[Bunyip]

And what of a person who believes both God exists and God does not exist?

They would probably need to see a psychiatrist.

 

[Curious George]

They would probably need to see a psychiatrist.

Yeah, maybe but they could just be really smart like schrodinger.

 

[Bunyip]

Yeah, maybe but they could just be really smart like schrodinger.

No, they must just be having difficulty understanding a simple dichotomy.

 

[Curious George]

No, they must just be having difficulty understanding a simple dichotomy.

Lol, you think schrodinger did not understand a simple dichotomy?

 

[Curious George]

No, they must just be having difficulty understanding a simple dichotomy.

You do realize this is more akin to a scientific view as this is precisely what we do in science, we falsify theories. We do not assume nothing is true until someone comes along and persuades us.

 

[Bunyip]

You do realize this is more akin to a scientific view as this is precisely what we do in science, we falsify theories. We do not assume nothing is true until someone comes along and persuades us.

How does that relate to what I said?
A person is either theist, or not. You can not be neither.

 

[Bunyip]

Lol, you think schrodinger did not understand a simple dichotomy?

I think Schrodinger was talking about something completely unrelated. A person is either a theist, or not.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you are not a theist, you are an atheist - why is that so difficult? It is an either/or proposition. If you do not hold the position of belief in a theistic god - you are atheist.

What's so difficult about accepting some of us are not either one?

 

[Curious George]

How does that relate to what I said?
A person is either theist, or not. You can not be neither.

I asked about a belief and you connected that belief to a lack of understanding such that others should question the sanity of a person holding such a belief. Well, as it turns out a holder of such a belief may grasp dichotomies more so than most. And the view is valid. So, the above has to deal with explaining the view which I am assuming you did not understand. Hopefully we can get back to my original question of you now...what is a person who believes both are true?

 

[Bunyip]

What's so difficult about accepting some of us are not either one?

That it is patently irrational. There is no way you can neither have, nor not have a belief.