The denial of the pecking order is folly

[Hevenly Heathen]

Let me know when you do, I would like to understand your point of view better.

 

[Revoltingest]

We are all only truly happy when we can elevate ourselves over others.
In the secular world this usually comes down to financial status, job, position at work and postcode.
Why do people always ask you 'so what do you do for a living?' as soon as they feel they are able to.
The answer is to see whether you are above them or below them and then how to act accordingly.
Why do people ask you what your religion or denomination is?
again, this is to see if they are above or below you in their sense of the hierarchy of man.
Why do people oppose certain forms of poor relief yet happily donate to 3rd World nations - again this is to make them feel good about themselves whilst keeping the nearby poor in their own countries at a significant disadvantage to themselves and thus maintain their own Lordship status.
We all think we are God and conflicts always arise when our Godhood status is threatened or there is a misunderstanding about who is above who in the order of status.
Thus all mainstream religions are doomed - as we can never let go of our supposed positions - this even happens within families.
Children are always supposed to be respectful of their parents regardless, this is even one of the biblical Commandments.
So is there a way to transcend this human failing?

This is all wrong.
We're only truly happy when we're at leisure.

 

[Iti oj]

I rather have not a secular system and certainly not a global one.. Just look at the counts of rapes, deaths, murders, violence, thief's in the west.. the list goes on off-course but you see my point.

I want to have a society that is: just, fair and has a golen-rule applied without ''Capitalism or Socialism'' but rather with contribution. I also do not see Islam being not a part of Economics it influences Economies like it did in the Golden-Age of Islam. And this will happen if Real Islamic law is intended in the society. For example if Saudi-Arabia as government would ''Contribute'' the money it gets from Oil among there people (As islam teaches) then nobody would have even to work in Saudi-Arabia

Ohh and punishing rape victims is a great policy or a sure deterent to reporting rapes thus lowering rates not that I am convinced the rates here are higher

 

[Revoltingest]

I rather have not a secular system and certainly not a global one.. Just look at the counts of rapes, deaths, murders, violence, thief's in the west.. the list goes on off-course but you see my point.

This reminds me of a news piece I recently heard about Pakistan. A devoutly Muslim country, it also greatly values honor.
And how does honor play out? A third of children are victims of sexual abuse, & victims are often executed to protect the
"honor" of the family. This sure sounds worse than the western approach.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

I hate to admit this, but in America we have pride aplenty, but honor we have little. That simply isn't taught much.

 

[Revoltingest]

I hate to admit this, but in America we have pride aplenty, but honor we have little. That simply isn't taught much.

I don't know how one measures honor, but we don't seem worse than others.
Caution: Let not the parade of scoundrels in the news be writ large upon society as a whole.

 

[cablescavenger]

so why we so quick to judge others and condemn them at the slightest percieved wrong - it's because it makes us feel superior to them.

Most of us need this ridiculous ego boost just to feel part of humanity.

What we must do is elevate ourselves above the need to actually care about others whatsoever - we must wallow in our own holy power.

The holy power that is given to us.

I find your whole premise inaccurate, and I am pretty sure I am not alone in my thinking from what I have already seen here.

While I am sure judging people on their job, prosperity or religion happens. I find it shallow and wouldn't personally enter into conversations about money or job title and would only ask good friends about religion if I want to learn more from them.

With regard to Charity, in all my years I have never heard anyone supply a reason like this for their decision:

Why do people oppose certain forms of poor relief yet happily donate to 3rd World nations - again this is to make them feel good about themselves whilst keeping the nearby poor in their own countries at a significant disadvantage to themselves and thus maintain their own Lordship status.

Having set up a charity, given to charity and worked for charities I can say without a shadow of doubt that my experience has been that the majority of people have an emotional investment in the charity they give to.

People always have limited funds and many prioritise the charity, or charities, they give to, however determining groups you wish to suppress and choosing alternatives is neither reasoning I have heard, nor something I feel is representative of people who give to charity.

 

[Student of X]

So is there a way to transcend this human failing?

Yes but it's only for the few and you have to go through hell.

Hell and Back

 

[nnmartin]

This is all wrong.
We're only truly happy when we're at leisure.

yes, but we are only happy in our leisure times because we know others are working.

This is why at most stores all the cashiers now have to stand up, when in the past they used to get a high chair. This is so that the customer can see that they are working and so gain a temporary ego boost.

ie: for this moment in time I am the master whilst you are my humble grovelling servant.

This fuels arrogance and segregation.

 

[no-body]

I think the work of Alan Watts is relevant here. We live life to get to the end (an imaginary goal marked "success") when it was a musical thing and we where supposed to play our best.

The great equalizer is death. The richest man in the world and the lowly hobo will both end up in the same place in the end. Perhaps the hobo had more spiritual happiness sleeping under a bridge and sipping malt liquor than the heart ache that comes with millions of dollars? Who are we to say in knee jerk reaction

Life is more than 9 to 5 and breaking your back (or exploiting and leeching of others) to get to the top.

 

[nnmartin]

With regard to Charity, in all my years I have never heard anyone supply a reason like this for their decision:

That is because no-one working in the charity sector would actually admit to the feeling of power they attain from lording it over the impoverished locals. It is an unwritten rule never to mention this base emotion, yet it is surely one of the prime subconscious drives to create charity.

Poverty exists for the rich man to feel superior - that is the only reason.

Having set up a charity, given to charity and worked for charities I can say without a shadow of doubt that my experience has been that the majority of people have an emotional investment in the charity they give to.

How come where I live (Cambodia) there is a plethora of well paid NGO and charity workers on fat monthly salary checks doling out their righteousness to native people. Many of these NGO"s are on $3000+ per month whilst the average local salary is only around $50.

do you see these overpaid Westerners taking pay cuts - absolutely not!

They pretend to be charitable and well-meaning but as soon as the money train dries up they are off - back to another country where the fat salary checks are still in vogue.

 

[nnmartin]

Let me know when you do, I would like to understand your point of view better.

I started a thread yesterday which touches on my ideas of The Essence

'follow the Essence, follow the truth!' is the title.

here's the link http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2890473-post1.html

 

[Revoltingest]

yes, but we are only happy in our leisure times because we know others are working.
This is why at most stores all the cashiers now have to stand up, when in the past they used to get a high chair. This is so that the customer can see that they are working and so gain a temporary ego boost.
ie: for this moment in time I am the master whilst you are my humble grovelling servant.
This fuels arrogance and segregation.

In 50+ years of shopping, I don't recall ever seeing a cashier sitting on a chair.
And I've always stood while the cashier was standing.
At banks & stock brokers, we all sit.
Are you serious with this stuff?

 

[nnmartin]

So are you are saying that because you are standing then the cashier must also stand?

if so, then this would be a good example of the master and servant charade.

ie: I stand and pay ,so you lowly worker must also stand as I am the master customer with the money.

Why should I be expected to stand while you are serving me sitting down!

and as for bank workers, why should they be allowed to sit but a supermarket cashier not?

It is because they are closer to the machinery of evil - the dark financial heart of mans' greed and pomposity.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

nnmartin: there are people who share your mode of thought, but it is arrogant and ignorant to state that is how the world works, especially as there are those who don't share your mode of thought and practice different views.

I believe I understand where you are coming from, I simply disagree with it. I grant you that others share you thought, but I feel it is a distortion of the norm.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

There is a difference between being expected to show common courtesy and a 'master and servant charade'

And the reason that they are more likely to sit at the bank as opposed to the supermarket is the amount of time spent per customer and the amount of moving around they need to do. If the banker had to constantly move groceries, and their customer changed every two minutes or less, they would probably be standing too; my tellers for example usually stand (sometimes they simply have raised seats), however those tellers dealing with more complex transactions that have a long chat with the customer? Of course they sit! you do not expect your customer to have to stand the entire time! by the same token only having the customer stand in that situation is silly, so the employee also sits.

 

[Me Myself]

I mostly see religious people thinking they are God. AT LEAST thinking they have direct line to him, and that´s equally dangerous. Wait that was a lie. It is MORE dangerous. People actually LISTEN to those balloonies.

Is there peace in heaven´s kingdom already?

 

[nnmartin]

I believe I understand where you are coming from, I simply disagree with it. I grant you that others share you thought, but I feel it is a distortion of the norm.

I think it is a fairly normal view, just that most people have become so conditioned to this customer is master, worker is servant mentality that they see it as natural.

 

[blackout]

I think it is a fairly normal view, just that most people have become so conditioned to this customer is master, worker is servant mentality that they see it as natural.

People imagine they see many things.
Yourself included.

Your view seems 'normal' to you,
because it is your view.

Most of the people I know just see a world of people
all out trying to make a living, just like themselves.
Looking for stability, happiness, sucesses/personal accomplishment, love....
All dealing with relational difficulties, economic ups and downs,
working and sorting through the results of their good decisions and their bad ones,
making new good decisions, and new not so good decisions.

We are all burdened with our own stresses and unproductive assertions.

Every individual has their OWN view of the world,
including the beliefs and assumptions they tack on
to a myriad of things they only THINK they 'know' (ie, 'see').

 

[nnmartin]

it is quite clearly a case of Evil itself , manifesting in Man.

We see this within our behaviour patterns, with money now being King above all.

Evil's insiduous power has well and truly taken over to the extent that we see it as normal.

And it seems that those who support this way of doing things are mere lackeys of the Evil spirit without realising.