The desire to live when there is no afterlife

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

The way I see it, if there really is no grand purpose and meaning to this universe, then it doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter if you are someone innocent or someone cruel. We as human beings and our lives would truly be insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Therefore, what does it matter who you are and what your actions are? People can frown upon you and tell you that what you are doing is wrong if you were someone cruel. But like I said, there is no grand purpose or meaning here. It is now nothing more than their own personal opinions now. They and their opinions are insignificant since there is no God judging us and our actions. Not that I would choose to be someone cruel, but you get my point here.

So long as you are aware is people like me out here and very strong if I saw you being cruel to another creature I would intervene make it a 2 on 1 .

 

[ArtieE]

what does it matter who you are and what your actions are? People can frown upon you and tell you that what you are doing is wrong if you were someone cruel. But like I said, there is no grand purpose or meaning here. It is now nothing more than their own personal opinions now. They and their opinions are insignificant since there is no God judging us and our actions. Not that I would choose to be someone cruel, but you get my point here.

All organisms are products of evolution and natural selection. Survival and reproduction matters to us because that's how our brains are wired. Living in a society and behaving morally increases my chances of living a good life, living as long as possible and reproducing successfully. I require no purpose or meaning beyond that. Eating a chocolate gives me pleasure even though I know I won't be eating chocolates forever. It in no way diminishes the pleasure I derive from it now.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The way I see it, if there really is no grand purpose and meaning to this universe, then it doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter if you are someone innocent or someone cruel. We as human beings and our lives would truly be insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Therefore, what does it matter who you are and what your actions are? People can frown upon you and tell you that what you are doing is wrong if you were someone cruel. But like I said, there is no grand purpose or meaning here. It is now nothing more than their own personal opinions now. They and their opinions are insignificant since there is no God judging us and our actions. Not that I would choose to be someone cruel, but you get my point here.

I've already answered this for you several times in your last thread but one last time:

I don't need the judgement of a god to give me purpose because I'm not a totalitarian. I'm quite capable of finding significance and fulfillment myself. And I wouldn't care if someone said a god gives them right and wrong, since I'm not a totalitarian and I would still question what tangible help versus tangible suffering actions would do and judge based on processed information, not blind observances. Further, because I'm not a totalitarian, I wouldn't care how powerful or old a being is, I still wouldn't say it has the determining opinion on what is meaningful, purposeful or significant, just one more opinion.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I've already answered this for you several times in your last thread but one last time:

I don't need the judgement of a god to give me purpose because I'm not a totalitarian. I'm quite capable of finding significance and fulfillment myself. And I wouldn't care if someone said a god gives them right and wrong, since I'm not a totalitarian and I would still question what tangible help versus tangible suffering actions would do and judge based on processed information, not blind observances. Further, because I'm not a totalitarian, I wouldn't care how powerful or old a being is, I still wouldn't say it has the determining opinion on what is meaningful, purposeful or significant, just one more opinion.

I tend to look at things how they actually are in reality as opposed to personal opinion. Everything in this universe is, in fact, meaningless. It is instead our brains that give meaning to things. So, in reality, it really is all meaningless. To live a life of personal meaning would be a delusional life since you are not looking at reality itself. It is no different than the situation of looking at some sort of object which is silver (in this case, your mother who is meaningless) and having a personal opinion regarding this object in which you think it is blue. The object is not blue in reality just as how your mother is not meaningful in reality either.

 

[ArtieE]

I tend to look at things how they actually are in reality as opposed to personal opinion. Everything in this universe is, in fact, meaningless. It is instead our brains that give meaning to things. So, in reality, it really is all meaningless.

Since our brains are real and give meaning to things survival and procreation is meaningful.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Since our brains are real and give meaning to things survival and procreation is meaningful.

The brains are real. But the meaning is not. It is no different than that situation I posed above with a person thinking a silver object is blue.

 

[ArtieE]

The brains are real. But the meaning is not. It is no different than that situation I posed above with a person thinking a silver object is blue.

The object isn't silver in reality. Our brains have given names to colors because it's meaningful to be able to differentiate between them.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I tend to look at things how they actually are in reality as opposed to personal opinion. Everything in this universe is, in fact, meaningless. It is instead our brains that give meaning to things. So, in reality, it really is all meaningless. To live a life of personal meaning would be a delusional life since you are not looking at reality itself. It is no different than the situation of looking at some sort of object which is silver (in this case, your mother who is meaningless) and having a personal opinion regarding this object in which you think it is blue. The object is not blue in reality just as how your mother is not meaningful in reality either.

Neither color nor social sciences which show tangible gains and losses in group stability based on tangible consequence are non-real. Color is a wavelength of light demonstrable regardless of whether a person can see it. And social consequence is not arbitrary. Nor is the reason why families tend to be more significant to an individual.

Rather than being a realist, I think you're refusing to see meaning much like the person who can't see a color. Either because you have something not functioning correctly in you or because of pure stubbornness. I think the former, as I've said. You sound like you need professional help.

 

[Akivah]

I tend to look at things how they actually are in reality as opposed to personal opinion. Everything in this universe is, in fact, meaningless. It is instead our brains that give meaning to things. So, in reality, it really is all meaningless.

And we all have different brains with different upbringing, education, and experiences. Everyone has their own personal reality. That we have different realities doesn't make reality meaningless. It just makes it different for everyone.

It is no different than the situation of looking at some sort of object which is silver and having a personal opinion regarding this object in which you think it is blue. The object is not blue in reality...

Colors are subject to perception. If one person believed an object was silver and another person thought it was blue, as they each act in accordance with their individual perceptions, then it is real to each of them. Despite not agreeing with the others perception.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I suffer from depression. I've been too weak and ill to work for awhile and it's got me down. Life seems to have no meaning. From the perspective of the universe, no, your life has no meaning. Saint or sinner, it's all just a blip in eternity. However, how you live(d) means something to the others still on the planet. Everything is relative, especially perception. We don't care all that much if we step on an ant (though I do try to avoid doing it on purpose). The hurricane doesn't care about all the human lives lost. But the ants care about losing its population. But the humans care about losing its population. You may not make more than a blip on the universe but a life lived can influence other lives for generations to come.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Neither color nor social sciences which show tangible gains and losses in group stability based on tangible consequence are non-real. Color is a wavelength of light demonstrable regardless of whether a person can see it. And social consequence is not arbitrary. Nor is the reason why families tend to be more significant to an individual.

Rather than being a realist, I think you're refusing to see meaning much like the person who can't see a color. Either because you have something not functioning correctly in you or because of pure stubbornness. I think the former, as I've said. You sound like you need professional help.

Alright, I won't further debate on this issue then. However, I am skeptical about what others say about having meaning in one's life. That it is solely your way of thinking that determines whether your life will be meaningful or not when you are living your life and doing certain deeds. I think it is more complicated than that. This is because our brains are what allow us to perceive meaning in our lives as I said before. But the brain is a very complicated organ. I do not think it all comes down to our way of thinking. I don't think it is all simple as others make it out to be.

For example, I struggle with depression and my life and everything else seems like a complete void. I can truly think to myself all I want that my life is meaningful, but there is no actual mental state there that makes my life seem meaningful. Everything is all just an empty void no matter what I think. So the thought that my life is meaningful is nothing more than just a thought. There needs to be an actual mental state in a person's life to make his/her life meaningful rather than just some empty void.

That mental state, is in fact, determined by the health and well-being of our brains. You need a healthy working non-depressed brain to create that healthy mental state in your life that perceives meaning. There is the difference between having the thought of meaning in your life as opposed to having the actual mental state (perception) of meaning in your life. Like I said, the perception of meaning in your life is a healthy, vibrant, and vigorous mental state. It is where your life does not seem like an empty void. It is where thoughts of meaning in your life are not just empty thoughts. But this mental state is almost impossible to achieve with many depressed people.

The optimal working of our brains determines how optimal of a perception we have in our lives. If your brain isn't working right, then you are not going to function well. That also applies to meaning in one's life. If your brain is all depressed and crippled by that depression, then your perception of meaning in your life is not going to work that well at all. You will now have nothing more than just an empty thought of meaning in your life. But the actual mental state that allows you to perceive meaning in your life will be greatly impaired.

Some people can maintain that mental perception somehow despite their depression. But different brains work differently. That perception can be preserved in one person such as how a stroke patient can still be able to fully move around despite damage to that brain region, but not remember very well. But it can be deficient in another person such as how a stroke patient not only loses their memory, but also is unable to move very well. It all depends on how well that function of the brain that allows us to perceive meaning is preserved.

 

[Kueid]

Life will still exist after death however I won't be part of it

How do you know that?

what your trying to describe falls outside of an objective definition to become subjective philosophy ?

What is the message here? Is this a question? I'm not trying anything and what I said didn't "fall" anywhere, if it is somewhere you "put" it.

 

[The Ardent Atheist]

I used to believe in the afterlife of eternal bliss and that I would live there after I die. Having this belief was an absolute psychological need for me that I desperately depended upon my whole life. Why? It is because most of us as human beings are hardwired for survival. The desire to live forever is hardwired into us. At least, that is, most of us. Some people are actually fine for whatever reason with the idea of dying forever.

This hardwired feature is stronger in some people and weaker in others. Unfortunately, in my case, it is very powerful. So upon losing my belief in the afterlife, it was completely devastating for me. I felt very strong feelings of suffocation mentally. Suffocation is a feeling that you need air. So a feeling of suffocation that is instead experienced mentally means that you have a psychological need for something (in this case, my need to live forever).

So me living forever is like the air I need to breathe. Having that taken away from me is like having a big pillow suffocating that life away from me. I am also in a state of depression. At this point, it is not a feeling of depression that is caused by any thought. Rather, it is the type of depression one would feel when they stop taking drugs that they desperately need. It is a psychological low since they can no longer get what they desperately need.

I feel that this desire to live keeps on kicking in, resulting in me experiencing those feelings of mental suffocation. I have no control over it. I am wondering if this will get better to the point of going away on its own. Will both this feeling of depression and this desire to live that is causing me so much turmoil pass on its own over time?

Hm.

Did you know that you experience death regularly? When you fall asleep, your mind ceases to exist (except during those brief periods when you dream). Think about it. Death has often been described as the sister of sleep.

The next time you're about to doze off, ponder the fact that you'll soon experience a temporary death for the next several hours. It doesn't seem so scary as you actually experience losing yourself to the nothingness of sleep. Heck, many people describe sleep as "comfortable."

Anyway, there was an ancient Chinese philosopher who wrote about death. His name and his exact words elude me, but he basically made the point that it's foolish to fear death because death is the natural flow of all things. Everyone who ever has been and ever will be awaits this fate of ours. You just have to go with the flow and trust that this is the natural order, if that makes sense. In other words, let nature take care of everything. Reality is what reality always has been and always will be, and nothing can change that. So peacefully embark upon the fate you share with all living things past, present and future.

It's all very zen when you get down to it.

But, really, just remember: You experience death every time you sleep.

 

[BSM1]

No matter what you believe or do, there will always be someone out there who contradicts you.

No there's not (sorry, I couldn't resist). You're right, imo, everyone has to find their own truth. However, it seems the truth of some people is trying to shoot holes in the truth of others.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

You're right, it is scary. Every day we may be brought so close to death. Eventually there'll come a day, for all of us, when we don't get so lucky. Everyone will have to meet the reaper one day, and we can welcome him with a warm smile and welcome him in when there's no other choice, or greet him with a hiss and fighting him desperately in a fight we can't win.

I'm not going to be arrogant and say I know what you're going through, but I honestly don't. I have these thoughts sometimes, we all do. They scare us all once in a while, and it's healthy. However, it sounds like these thoughts are haunting you and that is unhealthy. So like others have said, please seek professional counselling. I like to think of the mind as a lot of wires that is easy to understand on the base of it, but the inner workings need to be done by professionals.

But when I have come across thoughts about mortality, I remind myself that I only have to die once, and thinking about it just brings on the experience more than necessary. I remind myself that I will one day be dead, but right now I am alive, so it is none of my concern right now.

Living in the here and now makes it almost as if you will never have to experience death, because in death we don't notice. Everything in life is gone as if you never existed in the first place. At first it sounds unappealing but another way to think about it is: think of a family member you've never had. I've had 1 sister, but I've never had a second sister. So now I move my thought to questioning: How unfortunate is it that my second sister doesn't exist?

 

[martinfox23]

i believe that the ''afterlife'' is created by our will to live, all the willpower to live and to see our desire taking life. Maybe your afterlife will be different that someone else. What i truly believe is that the afterlife is all your desire taking life. I have nothing to backup that or to explain myself but i dont know how to describe it, if i tell myself that my ''life'' wont end after death, then it wont. Some may think i'm insane but its what keeps me from depression that my life has no meaning because it has one, i gave alot to people i love and in exchange they gave me precious things, ill that with me in the next step.

 

[Thief]

and welcome to the forum

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No there's not (sorry, I couldn't resist). You're right, imo, everyone has to find their own truth. However, it seems the truth of some people is trying to shoot holes in the truth of others.

@Quintessence and BSM1, was looking and seeing this conversation restarted. Let me ask, though. What about those who see their beliefs within the community of others? They don't see " I "... it's not "what do you believe and what do you value" their identity is different. When I ask my friend what does she believe, she tells me the belief of her Church and family not her as an individual.

Whether it is right or wrong, I can't say unless it makes harmful to her health. However, does it always have to be about what you believe? Can the OP see the advantage of a "community" belief (without analyzing.. that's different) where his beliefs are reflected off of others?

Quin, I notice that you mention "what do you believe"....so that makes me think that there is no other way to believe other than what comes from us. If we are in a community faith, which some religions are, would you agree with that type of thinking or does it make sense to you (this isn't more an either/or question. just wondering if you considered the "we" belief compared to the "you/I" belief) That and Western culture kinda plays a role in that.. so.

 

[martinfox23]

the community faith are pre-set beliefs like a connected network with all the people that believe in this particular stuff but the ''you'' as individual when you say: what do ''you'' believe feels stronger to me because its something you come up yourself or realise yourself, i used to be a christian but i realise that what i believe in isnt actually calling to me and that there was something else in my mind and it was what I truly believed in, knowning that made me feel good and accomplished. I'm not a christian anymore but if a religious person truly feel connected to what a religion says, i have no problems with that. if they aren't sure, like i used to, they maybe they are thinking of something else in their head that if they figure it out, might feel accomplished and clear. (Sorry for my english)

 

[BSM1]

@Quintessence and BSM1, was looking and seeing this conversation restarted. Let me ask, though. What about those who see their beliefs within the community of others? They don't see " I "... it's not "what do you believe and what do you value" their identity is different. When I ask my friend what does she believe, she tells me the belief of her Church and family not her as an individual.

Whether it is right or wrong, I can't say unless it makes harmful to her health. However, does it always have to be about what you believe? Can the OP see the advantage of a "community" belief (without analyzing.. that's different) where his beliefs are reflected off of others?

Quin, I notice that you mention "what do you believe"....so that makes me think that there is no other way to believe other than what comes from us. If we are in a community faith, which some religions are, would you agree with that type of thinking or does it make sense to you (this isn't more an either/or question. just wondering if you considered the "we" belief compared to the "you/I" belief) That and Western culture kinda plays a role in that.. so.

If I follow your question than yes, you can accept the truth of others as your truth, but this won't necessarily make it your truth. All of us carry our own truth inside. This is what I believe Yeshua meant when he said the"...kingdom of God is within you...". It's our task to discover and live that truth.