The Divinity of Christ

[djhwoodwerks]

We approach the Almighty God in prayer, thru the Mediator, Jesus, which is why prayers are said to God "in the name of Jesus", as Jesus is the 'way' sinful humans can be heard by God. He mediates for us .

According to your teachers, Jesus isn't the mediator of the rank and file witness, He's only the mediator of the elite, the 144,000 anointed. So how do the rank and file get to God? They can't, because they don't have a mediator.

*** ws chap. 1 pp. 10-11 par. 16 The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide ***
Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members. This spiritual nation is like a little flock of Jehovah’s sheeplike ones.—Romans 9:6; Revelation 7:4.

The 'slave' is the rank and file witness' mediator, not Jesus, and Jesus said no one gets to the Father but by "Him", so where does that leave you?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Hebrews 3:1-7 tells us that Jesus is the Apostle and High Priest to our God, as Moses was. Moses mediated the Law covenant, and Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant.

Again, Jesus is not the rank and files mediator, and the rank and file are not part of the New Covenant, so where does that leave them? They have mere men as their mediator.

*** w12 3/1 p. 17 How Should We Remember Jesus’ Death? ***
Through the new covenant, Jehovah makes blessings available to many by means of a few. Those in the covenant are few, a mere 144,000. Through them, millions from all nations will be blessed with everlasting life in an earthly paradise. Some who are in the new covenant serve Jehovah on earth today. They alone properly partake of the bread and the wine because the cup “means the new covenant.”—Read Luke 12:32; Revelation 14:1, 3.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant.

Correct! Not men, Jesus is the mediator. If Jesus isn't your mediator, you cannot get to God!

 

[Muffled]

(quote)
Hi
The firstborn of all creation by God, was not known by the name 'Jesus' until his human birth.
He is called 'Michael' the Archangel, in his prehuman existence.

I don't believe the Bible ever says that Michael is not human (our definition) nor does it say he ever dies. So how could he have a rebirth if he never dies?

 

[Muffled]

If that is true, then the Bible is inaccurate about Jesus being the first born of all creation, it was Michael.

The Bible doesn't tell us if Michael was born or created. Jesus is both and the only one the Bible lists being both.

 

[Muffled]

Correct! Not men, Jesus is the mediator. If Jesus isn't your mediator, you cannot get to God!

I believe that is not so. I got to God without Jesus. However I did not get to the New Covenant without Jesus.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Jesus is both and the only one the Bible lists being both.

Where does the Bible list Jesus as being both?

I believe that is not so. I got to God without Jesus. However I did not get to the New Covenant without Jesus.

John 14:6 (ESV Strong's) 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I'm afraid you didn't, unless you're claiming Jesus was lying.

I did not get to the New Covenant without Jesus.

Are you a rank and file witness? I don't know if you're a witness or not, some are afraid to put that they are. If so, you're not part of the New Covenant.

 

[Repox]

(quote)
Hi repox
Couple of questions: Can God die?

The Bible says no, God is Eternal, and cannot die.

Did Jesus die? Yes, and God resurrected him from the death condition. Acts 2:32

Who did Jesus claim to be? John 10:36 He said that he was 'the Son of God'. see also Luke 1:32

Just something to think about..

peace

No, God cannot die, He is eternal. God's human body (Jesus) died but His spiritual form returned to heaven. The four gospels are in error, Jesus was God. I have researched it. What you find is the four gospel stories about Jesus are mostly fiction, you don't find those stories in prior gospels. I have repeated this several times, but no one pays attention. Those are ideas for you to think about.

 

[Daisies4me]

The body of Jesus died and was buried, His Spirit went and proclaimed the Gospel to the "spirits in prison". Which was the whole world that was destroyed in Noah's day.

1 Peter 3:18-20 (ESV Strong's) 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah.

So yes, when we die, our flesh is incapable of activity, it knows nothing at all, but our spirit lives on!

(quote)

Hi Dj
again, let's look into what the Scriptures say on the matter. What do you read at Ezekiel 18:4?

When a person dies, he ceases to exist. Death is the opposite of life. You, the person are a 'soul'. The soul is not separate from the breath of life, or spirit that keeps the body alive. Solomon wrote that "the dead know nothing at all". in Ecclesiastes 9:5,6, &10. He went on to say that there is 'no work, nor planning, nor knowledge nor wisdom in the grave'. Similarly, Psalm 146:4 states that when a man dies, "his thoughts do perish". We are mortal, and do not survive the death of the body. The life we enjoy is likened to the flame of a candle--when the flame is put out, it does not GO anywhere--it is simply gone. It no longer exists.
Genesis 2:16-17 tells us that God warned Adam against sinning, and told Adam what would happen if he did sin. nothing was mentioned about Adam remaining alive in another form, or going somewhere else to remain alive, was it?
No. God distinctly told Adam, 'you will surely die', did he not?
The lie that people teach actually calls God a liar--false doctrine says that Adam didn't really 'die', but lived on somewhere... not what God said at all, is it?
Please consider these Biblical points, concerning what happens to people when they die.
may you have peace

 

[djhwoodwerks]

(quote)

Hi Dj
again, let's look into what the Scriptures say on the matter. What do you read at Ezekiel 18:4?

When a person dies, he ceases to exist. Death is the opposite of life. You, the person are a 'soul'. The soul is not separate from the breath of life, or spirit that keeps the body alive. Solomon wrote that "the dead know nothing at all". in Ecclesiastes 9:5,6, &10. He went on to say that there is 'no work, nor planning, nor knowledge nor wisdom in the grave'. Similarly, Psalm 146:4 states that when a man dies, "his thoughts do perish". We are mortal, and do not survive the death of the body. The life we enjoy is likened to the flame of a candle--when the flame is put out, it does not GO anywhere--it is simply gone. It no longer exists.
Genesis 2:16-17 tells us that God warned Adam against sinning, and told Adam what would happen if he did sin. nothing was mentioned about Adam remaining alive in another form, or going somewhere else to remain alive, was it?
No. God distinctly told Adam, 'you will surely die', did he not?
The lie that people teach actually calls God a liar--false doctrine says that Adam didn't really 'die', but lived on somewhere... not what God said at all, is it?
Please consider these Biblical points, concerning what happens to people when they die.
may you have peace

This is all fine and dandy, but, let's look at what the Apostles said about Jesus,

1 Peter 3:18-19 (ESV Strong's) 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison.

Yes, Jesus' body died, but His spirit was made alive and He went to proclaim to the spirits in prison. Why do witnesses use the Old Testament to try and devalue the New Testament? How do you think Jesus went to proclaim to the "prisoners" if He or no one else existed? If they all were dead and gone, where and how did Jesus proclaim to them? I'm under the New Covenant, so I go by the New Testament. I'm guessing you're a rank and file witness who is not under the New Covenant, that's why you resort to the Old Testament.

 

[Daisies4me]

No, God cannot die, He is eternal. God's human body (Jesus) died but His spiritual form returned to heaven. The four gospels are in error, Jesus was God. I have researched it. What you find is the four gospel stories about Jesus are mostly fiction, you don't find those stories in prior gospels. I have repeated this several times, but no one pays attention. Those are ideas for you to think about.

(quote)

Hi repox
God was not ever a man. God Almighty would never be in a form 'created lower than the angels', as man was. He sent forth his Only Begotten Son, Jesus into the world of mankind, as John 3:16 clearly states.
(who) God loved the world of mankind so much, that He (Jehovah the Almighty, who ALONE is the Most High over all the earth, (Ps. 83:18) is the one doing the SENDING. right?

(Jesus) The one God SENT FORTH into the world, remained faithful to God to the death, in order to provide the RANSOM price to God, for the sin and death sentence on all of Adam's offspring, who were born in sin, so that they may live again in the promised resurrection to life again, DUE TO the paid Ransom price by Jesus. read Romans 5:12. The Law Covenant required the repayment for sin to be 'like for like', i.e., the same 'amount' , or the equal to what was lost much be repaid. No sinful human could buy back the life of a perfect human, which Adam was, until he sinned. therefore no other human could pay the required Ransom. Which is why God opted to send HIS Son to earth, to be born a human not tainted by the sin of Adam, but also having God as his Father, as Adam did, so the EQUAL Amount owed could thereby be paid via the perfect human life of Jesus, who had no sin, and remained faithful to the death, thereby providing the sacrificial amount required by God and the Law of Moses.

Now do you understand what the ransom price was, and what was required by God under the Mosaic Law, to pay the debt 'once for all time' on behalf of all of mankind?
see Mark 10:45, 1John 2:2, Hebrews 5:9 , 1 John 4:9-10, Romans 5:7-8.

the 'gospels' are matthew, mark, luke and John. they are all true. They are Inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, reproving, and setting things straight. Do not be deceived into thinking that they are anything other than letters to us from God Almighty, the One who is a Spirit, as per John 4:24, the One who sent Jesus forth, John 7:28, the One who sent Jesus forth as 'His representative' into the world, according to Jesus' own words at John 16:27.

I hope this helps in your search for Bible understanding.

take care

 

[Daisies4me]

This is all fine and dandy, but, let's look at what the Apostles said about Jesus,

1 Peter 3:18-19 (ESV Strong's) 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison.

(quote)

Hi -- I think you will find that while in the memorial tomb, Jesus did nothing. He was dead. Until God resurrected him.

The Bible says that Jesus “preached to the spirits in prison.” (1 Pet. 3:19) What does this mean?
The apostle Peter identifies these spirits as those who had “once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days.” (1 Pet. 3:20) Clearly, Peter was referring to spirit creatures who chose to join Satan’s rebellion. Jude mentions the angels who “did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place,” saying that God “has reserved [them] with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.”—Jude 6.
In what way were spirit creatures disobedient in Noah’s day? Before the Deluge, these wicked spirits materialized in human form—something that God had not purposed for them. (Gen. 6:2, 4) Furthermore, those angels who had sex with women were practicing a perversion. God did not create spirit creatures to engage in sexual relations with women. (Gen. 5:2) ...These wicked, disobedient angels will be destroyed in God’s due time. For now, as Jude notes, they are in a condition of “dense darkness”—a spiritual prison, so to speak. ~excerpts from www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130615/disobedient-angels/

When and how did Jesus preach to these “spirits in prison”? Peter writes that this occurred after Jesus was “made alive in the spirit.” (1 Pet. 3:18, 19) Note, too, that Peter says that Jesus “preached.” Peter’s use of the past tense suggests that the preaching occurred before Peter wrote his first letter. It seems, then, that sometime after his resurrection, Jesus made a proclamation to the wicked spirits regarding the fully justified punishment they are due to receive. It was not a preaching that held out any hope for them. It was a preaching of judgment. (Jonah 1:1, 2) Once Jesus had demonstrated his faith and loyalty to death and then was resurrected—proving that the Devil indeed had no hold on him—Jesus had the basis for making such a condemnatory proclamation.—John 14:30; 16:8-11.

In the future, Jesus will bind and throw into the abyss both Satan and those angels. (Luke 8:30, 31; Rev. 20:1-3) Until that time, these disobedient spirits are in a condition of dense spiritual darkness, and their final destruction is certain.—Rev. 20:7-10.
(quote)

Yes, Jesus' body died, but His spirit was made alive and He went to proclaim to the spirits in prison. Why do witnesses use the Old Testament to try and devalue the New Testament? How do you think Jesus went to proclaim to the "prisoners" if He or no one else existed? If they all were dead and gone, where and how did Jesus proclaim to them? I'm under the New Covenant, so I go by the New Testament. I'm guessing you're a rank and file witness who is not under the New Covenant, that's why you resort to the Old Testament.

(quote)
The entire Bible is beneficial, none of it is obsolete, but all 66 books are important if we are to learn from God who provided it for all who seek Him in truth. The New Covenant was instituted by Jesus on the night of His execution, and all who obey Him and follow Jesus as God's anointed King and Head of the Christian Congregation, honor the teachings of Jesus as the one who fulfilled the Mosaic Law and instituted the new covenant for a kingdom as Mediator and High Priest.
We have the Hebrew Scriptures, and the Christian Greek Scriptures, all of which are beneficial for all things, and are Inspired of God. Those who are chosen to rule with Christ in the heavenly Kingdom partake of the emblems, and the rest attend and observe the service annually 'in memory' of the sacrifice Jesus made on our behalf, as the other flock of God's people who will 'reside upon the earth' under the guidance of the King and his associate Kings as per God's provision for restoring the planet earth to a paradise of peace that will remain forever. Psalm 37:9-11, & 29. Revelation 21:3-4, Matthew 5:5
This is what Jesus taught us to pray for at Matthew 6:9-10.
peace

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The firstborn of all creation by God, was not known by the name 'Jesus' until his human birth.
He is called 'Michael' the Archangel, in his prehuman existence.

It was to Jesus whom Jehovah spoke when He said "let us make man".
Proverbs chapter 8 : 22-31 show Jesus' prehuman existence in the heavenly realm with God while the creation process was going on, with Jesus being God's 'Master Worker'.

(Jesus) The one God SENT FORTH into the world,

I guess you don't see the confusion in those posts, do you?

Jesus WAS NOT known as Jesus until He was born.

It was to Jesus whom Jehovah spoke when He said, "let us make man".

Jesus, the One God sent forth.

If Jesus WAS NOT known as Jesus before His birth, how could God have spoke to Jesus or send Him forth? It was Michael who God spoke to, it was Michael whom God sent forth.

 

[Repox]

(quote)

Hi repox
God was not ever a man. God Almighty would never be in a form 'created lower than the angels', as man was. He sent forth his Only Begotten Son, Jesus into the world of mankind, as John 3:16 clearly states.
(who) God loved the world of mankind so much, that He (Jehovah the Almighty, who ALONE is the Most High over all the earth, (Ps. 83:18) is the one doing the SENDING. right?

(Jesus) The one God SENT FORTH into the world, remained faithful to God to the death, in order to provide the RANSOM price to God, for the sin and death sentence on all of Adam's offspring, who were born in sin, so that they may live again in the promised resurrection to life again, DUE TO the paid Ransom price by Jesus. read Romans 5:12. The Law Covenant required the repayment for sin to be 'like for like', i.e., the same 'amount' , or the equal to what was lost much be repaid. No sinful human could buy back the life of a perfect human, which Adam was, until he sinned. therefore no other human could pay the required Ransom. Which is why God opted to send HIS Son to earth, to be born a human not tainted by the sin of Adam, but also having God as his Father, as Adam did, so the EQUAL Amount owed could thereby be paid via the perfect human life of Jesus, who had no sin, and remained faithful to the death, thereby providing the sacrificial amount required by God and the Law of Moses.

Now do you understand what the ransom price was, and what was required by God under the Mosaic Law, to pay the debt 'once for all time' on behalf of all of mankind?
see Mark 10:45, 1John 2:2, Hebrews 5:9 , 1 John 4:9-10, Romans 5:7-8.

the 'gospels' are matthew, mark, luke and John. they are all true. They are Inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, reproving, and setting things straight. Do not be deceived into thinking that they are anything other than letters to us from God Almighty, the One who is a Spirit, as per John 4:24, the One who sent Jesus forth, John 7:28, the One who sent Jesus forth as 'His representative' into the world, according to Jesus' own words at John 16:27.

I hope this helps in your search for Bible understanding.

take care

Thanks, but I have a special understanding of the Bible which doesn't conform to most believers ideas, but it is works for me. I believe Jesus was God and not the son of God. Mostly, the OT has the correct perspective. The NT is in error because it proposes Jesus was the son of God, not God. God came into the world to give testimony to his chosen people. Things went crazy, so, after Jesus was murdered, they invented son of God sacrificial lamb stories. It can't get any better, just believe in Jesus and you will be saved. I don't think it is true. Back then, followers couldn't accept the truth about Jesus being God.

 

[Daisies4me]

I guess you don't see the confusion in those posts, do you
(quote)
Hi
no confusion, really. as humans, we know of Jesus from his human name that God gave him. But he also has been known by other names/titles. Not unusual in Bible records . Maybe you know that Israel is the new name that God gave to Jacob? Or that Abraham was originally called Abram? they are still the same person, aren't they? the scriptures foretold the promised Messiah's arrival. That the one called 'Jesus' (as it is now spoken in English translation) by his parents upon his birth was decided by God, not his human parents, if you read the account. He was also to be called 'the Son of God'. NOT GOD, but The SON of God.
He was also known as the archangel, and as 'the carpenter's son' by some, or the 'Nazarene' due to his family residing in Nazareth for a time, indicating his place of orign, as you may be called the 'american' if you traveled to other nations. But it would still be you, right?
and in reality, no one knows for sure what the pronunciation of the name was at the time of his life as a human on earth. it certainly was not as we call him in English, 'Jesus'. The English language didn't exist at that time.

peace to you
(quote)

Jesus WAS NOT known as Jesus until He was born.

It was to Jesus whom Jehovah spoke when He said, "let us make man".

Jesus, the One God sent forth.

If Jesus WAS NOT known as Jesus before His birth, how could God have spoke to Jesus or send Him forth? It was Michael who God spoke to, it was Michael whom God sent forth.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

He was also to be called 'the Son of God'. NOT GOD, but The SON of God.

He was also to be called, "everlasting Father". How can the Son be the "everlasting Father"?

Isaiah 9:6 (ESV Strong's) 6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

He was also known as the archangel,

Only to your org He was, not in the Scriptures He wasn't.

 

[Daisies4me]

This is all fine and dandy, but, let's look at what the Apostles said about Jesus,

1 Peter 3:18-19 (ESV Strong's) 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison.

(quote)

Hi-- it is true that Jesus was resurrected from the death condition by God as a spirit creature, otherwise, Jesus could not have ascended into the heavenly realm of God. why? Because neither flesh nor blood can enter into the heavens. Man is made for the earth, and the earth for the man. please see Psalms 116:15.
it was never intended to reside anywhere other than on the earth, which is why Adam was created from the earth itself. Then Adam rebelled against God, and worshipped Satan instead.
So when God resurrected Jesus, it was as a spirit creature. He used materialized human bodies before ascending to the heavens, so that his disciples would understand that he had been resurrected. Remember, they didn't recognize him when he walked along the road with them, they took him for the gardener....
But when he ascended, his body was hidden from view by a cloud, and no one literally saw him enter into the spirit realm. Then he passed judgment on the wicked spirit creatures residing in the heavenly realm.
He could not do it while he was dead, nor when he was in human form. only after God resurrected him in the form of a spirit creature that would be able to enter the spirit realm. And as God's Anointed King, he then had the power to pass judgment on the wicked spirit creatures, and he 'sat down at the right hand of God' in the heavens to await the time of the cleansing of the heavens, and then the final cleansing of the earth, which is very near.
and that explains the scripture, when you reason on other factors clearly stated in the Bible, it becomes more clear.

(quote)

Yes, Jesus' body died, but His spirit was made alive and He went to proclaim to the spirits in prison. Why do witnesses use the Old Testament to try and devalue the New Testament? How do you think Jesus went to proclaim to the "prisoners" if He or no one else existed? If they all were dead and gone, where and how did Jesus proclaim to them? I'm under the New Covenant, so I go by the New Testament. I'm guessing you're a rank and file witness who is not under the New Covenant, that's why you resort to the Old Testament.

 

[Daisies4me]

He was also to be called, "everlasting Father". How can the Son be the "everlasting Father"?

Isaiah 9:6 (ESV Strong's) 6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

(quote)

Isaiah 9:6 is not a stand alone verse, please consider some additional information needed to understand its meaning:
Since God took Jesus’ life from heaven and put it inside the woman Mary, Jesus did not get any sin from Adam. That is why Jesus was a perfect man. (Luke 1:30-35)
That is also why an angel said to the shepherds when Jesus was born: “There was born to you today a Savior.” (Luke 2:11)
But to be our Savior, what did the baby Jesus first need to do?— He needed to grow up and become a full-grown man, just like Adam. Then Jesus could become ‘the second Adam.’

Jesus, our Savior, will also become our “Eternal Father.” He is called that in the Bible. (Isaiah 9:6, 7) Yes, the perfect Jesus can become our father instead of Adam, who became imperfect when he sinned. That way we can choose to have ‘the second Adam’ as our father. Of course, Jesus himself is a Son of Jehovah God.
Effectually, Jesus 'repurchased' those who put faith in him and the Ransom Sacrifice for sin, and became our 'Father' by the repurchasing and saving us from the eternal death sentence that Adam brought upon us.

Hope this helps.
(quote)

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Hi-- it is true that Jesus was resurrected from the death condition by God as a spirit creature,

John 2:19-22 (ESV Strong's) 19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.

Jesus told them "HE" would raise His "BODY". When He resurrected His "BODY" the disciples remembered that He had said "HE" would raise His "BODY". He wasn't resurrected to some "spirit creature".