The "Doctrine of no self/soul"?

[zenzero]

Friend Ymir,

None of this responds to my point though, Zenzero. Surely there is something worthy in Zenzero that the Whole could benefit from or do you imagine the whole to be complete already... or do you think the point of existence is to fade into the background radiation?

One can only take out the picture from the background or the background from the picture only when the mind perceives.
Perception starts with the existence of the mind as separate entity. Only then does the mind focus on some point of a picture to take that as the foreground and rest as background BUT that is incorrect as both depend on each other and cannot be segregated.
Likewise being a part of the whole has no separate entity to prove anything. What needs to be proven is out there already proven. Evolution is the nature of the whole, expansion of consciousness is also part of that and being a part of that *whole* all these happen by default.

Love & rgds

 

[koan]

In science, they say now that the "Big Bang," is actually an outpouring. Scientists have now been able to trace the origin back to a central point. They also say, this central point is smaller then the head of a pin, in fact so small, that this is the closest analagy they use. Scientist, also say the universe is complete. Nothing can be added and nothing taken away, though things are changable. So what happens to ones "life spark", when one dies, when nothing may be added or taken away and there is only change possible? Science is begining to understand Buddhism without intent.

 

[zenzero]

Friend koan,

Science is begining to understand Buddhism without intent.
__________________

To share with that:
Science is nothing but our own *mind* and buddhism is the *no-mind*
all labels for an understanding!

Love & rgds

 

[joea]

None of this responds to my point though, Zenzero. Surely there is something worthy in Zenzero that the Whole could benefit from or do you imagine the whole to be complete already... or do you think the point of existence is to fade into the background radiation?

Friend YmirGF,
The whole is already perfect; But perfection is yet to be attained. The 8 Bulls (pictures) of Taosit were ending on eight. When Kakuan repainted the Bulls, he added 2 more pictures which became the 10 Bulls of Zen. Kakuan saw that the eighth Bull of Tao, ended on EMPTINESS, NOTHINGNESS. Kakuan was not satisfy because he knew, one can go beyond emptiness....To go beyond emptiness therfore, is hidden in the last 2 Bulls he added.

My understanding on the last 2 Bulls is yet to be understood. I'm still learning this.

 

[YmirGF]

My understanding on the last 2 Bulls is yet to be understood. I'm still learning this.

Perhaps that is why a few here think I am full of bull.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

Personal understanding:

NOTHINGNESS is complete.
There is nothing beyond *Nothingness*
A cycle starts and ends at *nothingness*.
The last 2 bulls only depicts the start of another cycle of forms but this time as consciousness a form out of that *nothingness*, enlightening whatever comes in its aura.

Love & rgds

 

[YmirGF]

Friends,

Personal understanding:

NOTHINGNESS is complete.
There is nothing beyond *Nothingness*
A cycle starts and ends at *nothingness*.
The last 2 bulls only depicts the start of another cycle of forms but this time as consciousness a form out of that *nothingness*, enlightening whatever comes in its aura.

Love & rgds

Well, though I don't claim to be enlightened, I am pretty sure I know nothing - but I do know it very well.

 

[koan]

I thought the last two pictures, was about Suchness?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Ymir,

but I do know it very well.

It is good that atleast *you* know; personally am still to find that *knower*.
* You *, are surely streets ahead!
Best wishes!

Love & rgds

 

[Willamena]

Suchness/noumena rocks.

/interjection

 

[zenzero]

Friend koan,

I thought the last two pictures, was about Suchness?

Suchness of what?

Suchness of the whole, to which one has merged. The knower and the known are one as a *whole*.

Love & rgds

 

[Willamena]

Wholeness/oneness rocks!

/interjection

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In science, they say now that the "Big Bang," is actually an outpouring. Scientists have now been able to trace the origin back to a central point. They also say, this central point is smaller then the head of a pin, in fact so small, that this is the closest analagy they use. Scientist, also say the universe is complete. Nothing can be added and nothing taken away, though things are changable. So what happens to ones "life spark", when one dies, when nothing may be added or taken away and there is only change possible? Science is begining to understand Buddhism without intent.

'Life's spark' can go out, so to speak, like a light bulb disconnected from its source.

According to Genesis [2v7] Adam did not become alive, or have life's spark, until God breathed the breath of life into Adam's lifeless body.
Then, after receiving the breath of life, then Adam became a living soul.
At death Adam became a dead soul with no more spark of life in him.

Even in the spirit realm the angelic creation can loose their life's spark in destruction. Jesus, according to Hebrews [2v14b], will destroy Satan.

So things are changeable. Only those in heaven and earth [spirit or human creation] can forever retain life's spark when obedient to God as ruler.
[Matt 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6]

 

[Engyo]

Willamena -

Why do I keep stubbing my toes on your "rocks"?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Willamena,

Wholeness/oneness rocks!

Understanding the word *rocks!*
*rocks* are also called *stones*.
When one takes marijuana we say the person is *stoned* it actually means the person is like a rock his mind has stilled similarly the word *buddh* has two meanings. One as an *statue* and the other *awakened one* both are called *buddh*.
The word rock/stone/buddh means the same with varying levels of perceptions

Love & rgds

 

[Ben Dhyan]

This concept of the One Mind of Huang Po is meant to represent non-duality and thus can be considered as no mind by the conceptual mind. As such, numbers, words, symbols, thoughts, knowledge, descriptions, etc., will not in all eternity bring consciousness to the its realization.

All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. This mind, which is without beginning, is unborn and indestructible. It is not of any colour and has neither form or appearance. It does not belong to the categories of things which exist or do not exist, nor can it be thought of as in terms of time, past or future. It can't be described by any words or numbers for it transcends all limits, measures, names, traces, and comparisons. It is that which you see before you -- begin to reason about it and you fall into error. It is like a boundless void which can't be fathomed or measured. - Huang Po

 

[koan]

It appears to me Zenzero, that you may be hung up on emptiness. The idea of suchness/ Thusness, is like you say, The knower and the known are Whole. However it's the expression in life that matters. Everything as it is.

 

[joea]

If the 8 bulls of Tao ended on Emptiness, why then Kakuan added two more?

 

[DreadFish]

If the 8 bulls of Tao ended on Emptiness, why then Kakuan added two more?

Im not an authority, but it seems to me that the 9th one just completes the circle (almost literally) : "The search for enlightenment has come full circle. The world goes on regardless of what changes occurred. It is the nature of all phenomenon." And the 10th one just takes bodhisattva into the picture, I guess adding the importance of that aspect.

 

[joea]

Im not an authority, but it seems to me that the 9th one just completes the circle (almost literally) : "The search for enlightenment has come full circle. The world goes on regardless of what changes occurred. It is the nature of all phenomenon." And the 10th one just takes bodhisattva into the picture, I guess adding the importance of that aspect.

Absolutely. One comes back to the market place to help others, the bodhisattva as you say.