The Downfall of the Left

[The Emperor of Mankind]

VOLUNTEER TO HELP ELECT DEMOCRATS?

No thank you.
How about posing the statement "Volunteer to
help elect Republicans" ?

I've never seen such junvenile, panty wetting, whining, over an election.

Then clearly you don't remember the reaction from the right when Obama got elected and during his Presidency. You think this what's happening now is bad? People were openly calling for states to secede.

 

[Mister Emu]

Sorry, I sometimes forget what qualifies as Left in my own country.

Well, no one is ever going to vote for a real left or right in America.

 

[Carl W.]

What's wrong with succeeding?
OH! secede!
There are always fringe idjits everywhere.
Look at the ticked off protesters.
Marching their feet off only makes for a media frenzy.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Libertarians are diehards? Not sure if that is a compliment or a jab.

In a way, it's actually a compliment. I don't lump you into everything I said either. . . I do that for the lurkers who need to hear this side of things. After all, this isn't exactly a fact-based kind of thread, it's an Op-ed thread. I'm going to play with those parameters.

But in keeping with the OP, Trump's behavior is creating quite a few diehards against him, including myself. Two months ago, I was ready to give him a chance, assuming the weight of the office would temper him.

But his divide and conquer tactics against the media, and Spicer's Press Conference yesterday was the last straw on a very heavy mule.

It's getting scary for millions of Americans, including many that voted for him and realize they screwed up.

I think the fact that yo can't seem to help yourself in creating thread after thread about the left's behavior and their potential impact on the future, as opposed to the actual president's behavior and impact, does speaks volumes. . . I gotta believe that you're worried too.

 

[Neo Deist]

I think you are doing a huge disservice to the peaceful protests by lumping it all together. All three of these things are separate issues with separate demographics with separate messages.

You know that I have spoken about respecting the peaceful protesters, and standing up for their right to do what they are doing. I have separated them from the criminal element.

How can you ask someone who genuinely believes in something to remain silent for the sake of future political value? You can't do it. It was a historic demonstration which may or may not have effects in the future. We will have to see. To simple say this is the "downfall of the left" is silly. Many proclaimed that Obama was the downfall of the right, that was a silly statement now, just as I feel that this is a silly statement now.

But people aren't going to list the different factions from the Left on the next election day. They are simply going to remember it as the Left.

 

[Quetzal]

You know that I have spoken about respecting the peaceful protesters, and standing up for their right to do what they are doing. I have separated them from the criminal element.

Oh okay, my fault. I thought you were lumping them together. Thanks for clarification.

But people aren't going to list the different factions from the Left on the next election day. They are simply going to remember it as the Left.

I suppose that is a possibility. But do you think this is going to be a thing during the next election cycle? I am not convinced. We will see, I suppose. Question, when you refer to the "left", are you meaning the DNC? I assume you are referring the political party representing the left instead of the progressive ideals that make up the left. But I thought I would ask.

 

[Neo Deist]

I gotta believe that you're worried too.

I'm not. If the crap hits the fan, my family will survive. Retreat to the woods, live off the land, and watch the sun come up tomorrow.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Given the staggering numbers in the protests, the largest presidential protest since Nixon, and international involvement from lots of different political spectrums, this isn't a 'left' issue. This is an everyone issue. Clinton voters were there, Stein voters were there, Bernie fans were there, Johnson fans were there. I wouldn't be surprised if disgruntled Republicans were there too.

And it was one of the most peaceful protests in history. The ratio of violence to peaceful protestors was so low that the Trump supporter focus on the very few cases is patently disingenuous.

These people include moderates, not some left fringe. Don't understate the range, size and sincerity of these protests, or give in to smear campaigns against the protesting public.

 

[David1967]

Then clearly you don't remember the reaction from the right when Obama got elected and during his Presidency. You think this what's happening now is bad? People were openly calling for states to secede.

You are correct. I personally know people who were very sore losers that said horrible things about president Obama. However, I don't recall riots, looting and setting the streets on fire.

 

[Neo Deist]

Oh okay, my fault. I thought you were lumping them together. Thanks for clarification.


I suppose that is a possibility. But do you think this is going to be a thing during the next election cycle? I am not convinced. We will see, I suppose. Question, when you refer to the "left", are you meaning the DNC? I assume you are referring the political party representing the left instead of the progressive ideals that make up the left. But I thought I would ask.

Yes, the DNC. The ideals and issues are a separate issue, and I agree with many of them (such as it is with Libertarians). But the swing voters are going to think Democrat = Protesters, and the images pulled up will be of smashed windows, burning cars and violence.

There is an old military tactic that comes to mind. If you want to win the battle, have the enemy fight among themselves first. You know that...you're a historian.

 

[Quetzal]

However, I don't recall riots, looting and setting the streets on fire.

And for what it is worth, many on the left do not condone those actions, either. I do not believe those folks represent the issues being brought to the forefront this weekend.

 

[Nietzsche]

As to ignoring reality, I will say it: Trump is an egomaniac. He is so concerned with his image and having everyone love Him, and when that doesn't happen he gets bent out of shape. He needs to stop worrying about Twitter and focus on the country.

That is all I wanted. Now that we've accepted both sides are made up almost entirely of shameful people who really ought to be taken behind a woodshed and beaten to death with a shovel, we can move forwards.

 

[Quetzal]

Yes, the DNC. The ideals and issues are a separate issue, and I agree with many of them (such as it is with Libertarians). But the swing voters are going to think Democrat = Protesters, and the images pulled up will be of smashed windows, burning cars and violence.

In which case, I might agree. The DNC needs to redefine themselves or they are in danger of losing a lot. The DNC has a lot of internal rebuilding that needs to happen. Else, they will lose voters like you said. We will see. I hope they make some changes.

 

[bobhikes]

Many people may not realize it right now, but the protests, the violence, the chants of "not my president," etc., are only going to hurt the Democratic Party in the long run. Moderates and swing voters are looking at that behavior and they will associate it with the Left. When future elections roll around, those same swing voters may think twice before aligning themselves with the Left because of it.

To the protesters, it may seem like they are standing up for a cause they believe in. Ultimately, they are driving a wedge between the Left and everyone else. Politically, they are their own worst enemy.

As a moderate I am not surprised its is what the democrats do. They have protests and marches and big parties to raise money. As a moderate what Trump does is going to decide my next vote. I don't speculate about what is going to happen, I will judge based on what happens.

 

[David1967]

And for what it is worth, many on the left do not condone those actions, either. I do not believe those folks represent the issues being brought to the forefront this weekend.

I agree. I would like to see a productive discussion between the sensible people of both the left and right. The people destroying things don't want dialogue.

 

[Quetzal]

I agree. I would like to see a productive discussion between the sensible people of both the left and right. The people destroying things don't want dialogue.

Me too, brother.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Many people may not realize it right now, but the protests, the violence, the chants of "not my president," etc., are only going to hurt the Democratic Party in the long run. Moderates and swing voters are looking at that behavior and they will associate it with the Left. When future elections roll around, those same swing voters may think twice before aligning themselves with the Left because of it.

To the protesters, it may seem like they are standing up for a cause they believe in. Ultimately, they are driving a wedge between the Left and everyone else. Politically, they are their own worst enemy.

Take my opinion with a large dose (not just a grain) of salt...I'm not American.
I try very hard to be a swinging voter here in Oz. A centrist, if you will. I was raised very much left in terms of Australian politics, due to trade unionism rather than any great social leftism, and so perhaps there is a very different dynamic here to the US in terms of a 'typical' left voter profile.

But I thought something of my habits might be important to note.
One of the reasons I AM a centrist is that I think both sides of the fence have idiot fringe elements that are so obsessed with their personal ideologies they've moved well past having any care for society as a whole.

In American terms, I'd be trying to actively discount red-neck gun freaks who are one step away from succession, as well as extreme leftists who think of the world solely in terms of class enemies.

I'd need to actively do this, since the media would commonly be trying to feed me both of these narratives as real and meaningful. But most Dem voters and most Republicans are not part of these extremist viewpoints. Most are worried about their jobs, their safety, their taxes, their kids.

So actually, these demonstrations wouldn't make me discount the left. Nor would the idiotic (in my view) things that some Republican Senators say make me automatically discount the right. Both are flawed, and neither are EVER going to be close to perfect, or close to representing me. Instead, I'd try to convince myself to listen to the next candidate, to try and judge the likelihood that what they say represents what they do, and try to force myself to make a decision based on that, deliberately swallowing down some of the baggage we all carry in order to do so (in my case including the fact that my parents would NEVER vote right).

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Going back 28 years from the last election gets 2.

1992 dem, 1996 dem, 2000 dem, 2004 rep, 2008 dem, 2012, dem, 2016 dem. It is currently 2017 and in the last 28 years we have had 1 election that republicans won the popular vote.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

And for what it is worth, many on the left do not condone those actions, either. I do not believe those folks represent the issues being brought to the forefront this weekend.

I also do not condone those actions. In the last few days, millions have protested around the world.

I was at a hotel this morning and I watched Fox News for about 30 minutes. I don't have cable normally. They buried the lead in that half hour, which was the women's march. Not mentioned even once.

But twice, in two separate stories, they showed video of a few fires and broken windows from Friday, and explained ow those few got arrested, and what criminal charged would be pending, et cetera.

The actions of a few hundred measured against millions around the world who protested peacefully. . . That's how to spin.

Right wing media is pushing this story hard, which explains the constant attention to it here on RF too.

 

[Quetzal]

I also do not condone those actions. In the last few days, millions have protested around the world.

I was at a hotel this morning and I watched Fox News for about 30 minutes. I don't have cable normally.

They buried the lead in that half hour, which was the women's march. Not mentioned even once.

But twice, they showed video of a few fires and broken windows from Friday, and explained ow those few got arrested, and what criminal charged would
be pending.

The actions of a few hundred measured against millions around the world who protested peacefully.

Right wing media is pushing this story hard, which explains the constant attention to it here on RF too.

A peaceful protest does not sell headlines.