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The EDL
- Thread starter Roadrider
- Start date
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
EDL are thugs.
But, to merely dismiss them as loons like the British politicians have done is dangerously short-sighted.
The EDL grow in big, diverse, and working class areas.
They are a symptom of a multicultural system that is dangerously broken and is not being remedied. They're also growing -- regardless of one's feelings on them. They're growing because they perceive their concerns as being ignored, because the system isn't working, because government inactivity with hate preachers, and also because of a lack of integration.
They generalize Muslims, making out that the majority of Muslims are extremist and Islamist enablers due to a perceived lack of response from the moderate Muslim community -- not realizing that the lack of response is because the Media aren't interested in facts, but sensationalism. While there are unfortunately some Muslims who will not say a thing against other Muslims due to a misplaced sense of loyalty and the idea a Muslim shouldn't speak ill of the actions of another Muslim, most are open about their opinions on this matter.
The EDL were born out of frustration, and until their frustrations are quenched, they will continue to exist, if not grow.
I don't have any idea of how to stop their growth. I would like to say with education and meeting Muslims, but I think both groups would be on the defensive. At the same time, if it ends badly... familiarity can frequently breed contempt.
But, to merely dismiss them as loons like the British politicians have done is dangerously short-sighted.
The EDL grow in big, diverse, and working class areas.
They are a symptom of a multicultural system that is dangerously broken and is not being remedied. They're also growing -- regardless of one's feelings on them. They're growing because they perceive their concerns as being ignored, because the system isn't working, because government inactivity with hate preachers, and also because of a lack of integration.
They generalize Muslims, making out that the majority of Muslims are extremist and Islamist enablers due to a perceived lack of response from the moderate Muslim community -- not realizing that the lack of response is because the Media aren't interested in facts, but sensationalism. While there are unfortunately some Muslims who will not say a thing against other Muslims due to a misplaced sense of loyalty and the idea a Muslim shouldn't speak ill of the actions of another Muslim, most are open about their opinions on this matter.
The EDL were born out of frustration, and until their frustrations are quenched, they will continue to exist, if not grow.
I don't have any idea of how to stop their growth. I would like to say with education and meeting Muslims, but I think both groups would be on the defensive. At the same time, if it ends badly... familiarity can frequently breed contempt.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
The problem is that he's from the EDL and says some true stuff.
To realise what he's talking about one has to see Undercover mosque.
Its a few years old but nothing has changed, it only got worse.
[youtube]njRKaX0ORuI[/youtube]
Dispatches - Undercover Mosque - The Return - YouTube
To realise what he's talking about one has to see Undercover mosque.
Its a few years old but nothing has changed, it only got worse.
[youtube]njRKaX0ORuI[/youtube]
Dispatches - Undercover Mosque - The Return - YouTube
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
I totally forgot about Undercover Mosque. Kudos.
That is indeed seriously worrying.
Assad91
Shi'ah Ali
And in Saudi speak, "Kaffir" is Christians, Jews, Pagans, Sufis, Shias, Anyone Muslim who disagrees.
Not all Muslims are indoctrinated. Of course, it is hard as the Saudi influence is the greatest influence in the west. BUt not all fall into the trap, mostly reverts do. But that is being fixed. At least in America. Look at Suhaib Webb and Hamza Yusuf. Imam Suhaib of the Boston Islamic Society is not Wahabi. Neither is Hamza Yusuf, who is a sufi maliki scholar and Imam with his own college (Zaytuna College) with the goal to produce American Imams who are moderate.
Maybe because furind that times, and on wards, Wahabis have been killing Sufis and destorying sufi shrines
Blame the governments. They love KSA and allow KSA to spread its ideology.
Falvlun posted a very relevant article in another thread today, Assad.
This, I feel, is the main challenge of the matter: while there is certainly a lack of good will and desire of acceptance of Muslims, the sad truth is that Muslims are if anything much worse at managing their own radicals or even in admitting that they do exist and must be challenged in no unclear terms.
This, I feel, is the main challenge of the matter: while there is certainly a lack of good will and desire of acceptance of Muslims, the sad truth is that Muslims are if anything much worse at managing their own radicals or even in admitting that they do exist and must be challenged in no unclear terms.
apophenia
Well-Known Member
Assad91, I see you replied while I was editing and then decided to delete my post and rewrite it.
I know there are lots of good muslims. I have no wish to offend them or make them less happy.
It is very hard to work out the best response to this.
apophenia
Well-Known Member
There is surely something strange going on, and I have as much criticism of western governments as I do of radical muslims.
Suffice it to say I think that westerners get subjected to a lot of brainwash too. And I think it is loose affiliations of billionaires who have the power, more so than the governments.
I would not be at all surprised to see Bush, Obama (despite his relative poverty), Rupert Murdoch and Saudi princes discussing the fate of the world over a few whiskies and lines of cocaine.
Assad91
Shi'ah Ali
Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised either
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
Personally, I find the fact that we even have the term "Moderate Muslim" as if it's some sort of deviation from a regular "Muslim" to be worrying.
I dunno about you, but I've personally never heard anyone else use the term "Moderate Christian", "Moderate Atheist" etc.
I dunno about you, but I've personally never heard anyone else use the term "Moderate Christian", "Moderate Atheist" etc.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Typical attitude. Always blame the British. What a joke. No wonder multiculturalism doesn't work, the expectations are always on the existing inhabitants to make more of an effort to integrate others.
Reality: if you move to a country it is your responsibility to integrate.
Assad91
Shi'ah Ali
Comprehension problem? :sarcastic Because that is not what I was saying at all.
I wonder to what extent peaceful Muslims are taking strong & proactive steps to report, rein
in, & otherwise vigorously oppose the violent crazies of their faith. After all, they're in the
best position to know of & stop the carnage. It would be great if the EDL didn't have compelling
reasons to exist.
Note: I do not criticize anyone for doing to little, since I don't know how much is being done.
in, & otherwise vigorously oppose the violent crazies of their faith. After all, they're in the
best position to know of & stop the carnage. It would be great if the EDL didn't have compelling
reasons to exist.
Note: I do not criticize anyone for doing to little, since I don't know how much is being done.
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darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
You did effectively blame the BBC for British being bigots.
Its the problem of muslims not doing enough to showcase their true religion.
Don't blame the BBC.
Roadrider
Member
Some hacker group that claims to be "anonymous" appears to have an ongoing battle with them recently publishing donors and senior officers names in an attempt to intimidate anyone who is in or supports the EDL, doesn't sound like the EDL will be pressured or bullied and that their support in England is not limited only to the white working class. Here is another video:
EDL The media lies - YouTube
EDL The media lies - YouTube
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
What amuses me is how racist they are portrayed.
A lot of what I see is national pride. You don't have to be white working class to have national pride. They are going the right way about things by incorporating every race and religion into their organisation. That way idiots who want to dismiss them as racists and white supremacists actually have to come up with a better argument.