The Emerging World Religion

[Windwalker]

I agree that Jesus taught us to love our enemies, but LOVE but no means includes compromising truth.

Sure it does, when one arrogantly assumes their own ideas are the truth and all others must agree with them. That's not love, but pride. Love respects other points of view, rather than judging and condemning them. Love is not haughty.

Actually, humans have always had an interest and fascination with mysticism or what the scriptures at times refer to as mystery religions.

Chapter and verse please. But again, how do you describe mysticism? Playing around with ouija boards, seances, and the like? What I describe as mysticism scripture does speak about, but in the positive sense, experiencing the presence of God, both within us and without us. That's the heart of all true religious experience.

Your definition or practice of mysticism is just one avenue, but it comes in many variations.

Please illuminate us. What variations? Any that pertain to what I accept?

You may be correct that many are not willing to commit to the disciplines you practice, but that does not mean mysticism is not accepted in its various shapes and form on a broad scale.

So, you're saying something that most people have no experience in appeals to them? How? That's like saying everyone loves ice cream, even though they have no idea what it tastes like.

I see that it is becoming ever more accepted on a global scale and will culminate with a world leader who embraces such a spiritual mindset ultimately resulting in a one world spirituality which at first will be voluntary and then mandatory.

Wow, there a lot of mish-mash in this. How in the hell does one make mystical experience mandatory? It's like yelling at someone you MUST experience love! Do it now, or die! Ridiculous. Secondly, a "one world spirituality" is not at all the same thing as a "one world religion". You've just jumped to another ship here. All all people in all religions human? Yes. Do all humans have access to the same spiritual ground? Yes! But that is very, very different than all being the same religion.

It is one thing for the Creator to return, as the scriptures indicate He will, to rule the world bringing peace and unity with His truth and wisdom. It is an entirely different and dangerous situation to have a one world system and spirituality imposed on everyone based on humanistic wisdom.

Again, how in the hell do you impose spirituality on someone? You can impose religion. Oh yes, and that is exactly what you want to see happen. Hence it is you who advocate a one world religion. But that all people Love? Why wouldn't you want that?

 

[Windwalker]

You can say you're not new age because that terminology is no longer used, but the thoughts, ideas, and spirituality you espouse is no different than the new agers, even the word faith preachers and so many others who are basically promoting the same spiritual mysticism with just a few tweaks here and there.

My thoughts and ideas are radically different than everything I read in that article. They are not even in the same galaxy as those. You show me point for point how what I believe was expressed in that Theosophist article from the 1920s. I guarantee you I can show you how very little of it I agree with or fit my views. When I say I am not New Age, you better believe it. You have more in common with New Age than I do, and I can back that up.

It seems to me you want to label me because what I say eludes you, but you may as well just say I'm an Amazonian Shaman with a bone in my nose, which is as much a wild stab in the dark as calling me New Age is. If you want some help understanding a little more acurately how I approach these things, start here http://www.beliefnet.com/Wellness/2004/03/An-Integral-Spirituality.aspx Talk to those things in that link, and you can have an actual discussion with me about my views.

 

[InChrist]

What I find particularly bizarre about this topic in tying it to mysticism is to say that the mysticism's goal is to make a new religion, a "one world religion" on top of it. Nothing could be further from the truth. What lies at the heart of the mystical experience is the ultimate transcending of one's own religion, in fact the transcending all religions. It is the exact opposite of forming a new religion.

Well, I think the reality is that it may not be the goal of the mystic to make a "new religion " and it may not likely be called a religion, but rather a higher form of
'spirituality" Just as you and many now desire, something which transcends religion. A one world religion certainly may not be on your list of goals. But it is the goal and has always been the goal of satan. He just gets ignorant humans to participate in his desired agenda by appealing to them in a way that draws them into his program.

 

[Windwalker]

Well, I think the reality is that it may not be the goal of the mystic to make a "new religion " and it may not likely be called a religion, but rather a higher form of 'spirituality"

Yes. Exactly like Jesus advocated.

Just as you and many now desire, something which transcends religion. A one world religion certainly may not be on your list of goals. But it is the goal and has always been the goal of satan.

Really? Where exactly is that stated in the Bible? But lets be very clear here, you explicitly want a one world religion, yours. Should I assume you are in league with Lucifer on his goal of world domination?

He just gets ignorant humans to participate in his desired agenda by appealing to them in a way that draws them into his program.

Forgive me, but you wonder why I say this sounds so "conspiracy theory" like? Dark, devicious hidden agenda to deceive, and so forth.

But don't worry, I'm not ignorant of others manipulations. That's why I'm not a fundamentalist. That is why I keep my mind clear and balanced, centered and grounded through meditation disciplines. It keeps me from just buying another person's promises of truth by dazzling me with a miracle trick here or there. It keeps me from being gullible.

 

[Robert.Evans]

So called scripture doesn't mean its true or literal, how can you prove the holy ghost, or Jesus, words from an old book means nothing without proof.

The Saviour is the proof, with or without "u". Clever eh.

 

[InChrist]

They are thought and idea are radically different than everything I read in that article. They are not even in the same galaxy as those. You show me point for point how what I believe was expressed in that Theosophist article from the 1920s. I guarantee you I can show you how very little of it I agree with or fit my views. When I say I am not New Age, you better believe it. You have more in common with New Age than I do, and I can back that up. It seems to me you want to label me because what I say eludes you, but you may as well just say I'm an Amazonian Shaman, which is as much a stab in the dark as calling me New Age is. If you want some help understanding a little more acurately how I approach these things, start here http://www.beliefnet.com/Wellness/2004/03/An-Integral-Spirituality.aspx

When I referred to the new age I was not referring to the article, simply new age spirituality in general. Thanks for the link. I am very familiar with the aberrant teachings of Ken Wilber. His integral spirituality of Christianity, Buddhism, Islam to Taoism, Paganism and Neoplatonism would have perfectly fit in with new age spirituality and will fit perfectly in with the coming global spirituality.

 

[Windwalker]

When I referred to the new age I was not referring to the article, simply new age spirituality in general. Thanks for the link. I am very familiar with the aberrant teachings of Ken Wilber. His integral spirituality of Christianity, Buddhism, Islam to Taoism, Paganism and Neoplatonism would have perfectly fit in with new age spirituality and will fit perfectly in with the coming global spirituality.

Aberrant? The fact you say he fits in with New Age, shows me you have no idea what he teaches. Again, you have more in common with New Age than were Integral is at. Let's not forget, New Age embraces Jesus too.

But even so.... even if Wilber is "New Age", which he absolutely is not, let's start with how it is bad and/or dangerous, rather than just slapping a label on it mindlessly and assuming that means something. I wish New Age was Integral. I'd be happy to call myself that then. So how is it actually wrong? I guarantee what is in that article Yoshua linked to falls about 6 billion light years short of what Wilber teaches. Let's deal with the facts, shall we? I tire of you simply calling something New Age like it's a bad word and running away from actually deal with the facts before you.

Here's the reality, you want a one world religion. You despise mysticism because it embraces universal love. That's seems to me to be a huge problem with your religious ideas.

 

[InChrist]

Yes. Exactly like Jesus advocated.

I don't know why you keep using the name of Jesus when you outright deny His unique position as the Christ and God in the flesh.

Really? Where exactly is that stated in the Bible? But lets be very clear here, you explicitly want a one world religion, yours. Should I assume you are in league with Lucifer on his goal of world domination?

Why do you care what the Bible says? You don't accept it as God's Word.
No, I desire to see the return of the only trustworthy One to take His rightful place to rule the earth with His truth, peace, justice,and love. The goal of world domination by Lucifer will be just that, domination (through an evil and possessed man) who has convinced those on earth to believe self is God. Just like you do.

Forgive me, but you wonder why I say this sounds so "conspiracy theory" like? Dark, devicious hidden agenda to deceive, and so forth.

But don't worry, I'm not ignorant of others manipulations. That's why I'm not a fundamentalist. That is why I keep my mind clear and balanced, centered and grounded through meditation disciplines. It keeps me from just buying another person's promises of truth by dazzling me with a miracle trick here or there. It keeps me from being gullible.

Let's hope you're not gullible.

 

[InChrist]

Aberrant? The fact you say he fits in with New Age, shows me you have no idea what he teaches. Again, you have more in common with New Age than were Integral is at. Let's not forget, New Age embraces Jesus too.

Not the biblical Jesus.

Here's the reality, you want a one world religion.

No, I do not want a one world religion. I want a world in loving relationship under God the Creator.

You despise mysticism because it embraces universal love. That's seems to me to be a huge problem with your religious ideas.

I have to go now, but this idea that mysticism embraces universal love is something I may want to address later, if I have a chance.

 

[Windwalker]

I don't know why you keep using the name of Jesus when you outright deny His unique position as the Christ and God in the flesh.

I don't know why you keeping using the name of Jesus when what you say outright denies his position of love? I am allowed to have a different theology than you are, BTW. But to take a message of love and turn it into a message of world domination, well..... that's a horse of different color altogether.

Why do you care what the Bible says? You don't accept it as God's Word.

You do, and I'm pointing out what it says to you. Why don't you listen to it then, if you accept it as a direct dictation of God? Sounds to me like a type of rebellion against what you believe is authoritative to you. I point it out to you, and you shoot the messenger instead.

No, I desire to see the return of the only trustworthy One to take His rightful place to rule the earth with His truth, peace, justice,and love.

And everyone will finally believe the way you do. He will have saved you from having to place love beyond your ideas of truth! You know, peace does not come through being right.

The goal of world domination by Lucifer will be just that, domination (through an evil and possessed man) who has convinced those on earth to believe self is God. Just like you do.

Nonsense. You don't know what I believe. I believe everyone is God, not me personally. I think that's what you believe, considering how you place in yourself in the Throne of Judgement over all others.

Let's hope you're not gullible.

I would hope the same for you....

 

[Windwalker]

Not the biblical Jesus.

You mean your version of Jesus? I personally do not accept your version of Jesus as biblical. It doesn't teach love as the central message.

No, I do not want a one world religion. I want a world in loving relationship under God the Creator.

What about all the other religions then? What of them? Gone, out of here, destroyed, etc? Be honest.....

I have to go now, but this idea that mysticism embraces universal love is something I may want to address later, if I have a chance.

I'd love to hear you attempt to say it does not. That should be interesting.

 

[sojourner]

Hi Sojourner,

If it is not the Bible as the "revealed truth," what do you think the "revealed truth" that God has given to man?

Thanks

I don't think the "revealed truth" is boxed as simply as that.

 

[sojourner]

You have created or accepted belief in some kind of nebulous, vague, incoherent god that has no inherent Being or distinct Self, a god of your imagination which allows you to be in control and freedom to do whatever you think is okay.

Bingo! God isn't "a being." God is Being, itself. Yes, the God-concept is rather nebulous, because we don't have God out here in front of ourselves to label, to define, to perceive in total. the God concept is largely of the imagination, and that concept gives me the freedom to be who I am created to be -- and, yes, that is OK.

 

[sojourner]

I believe that freedom is very important to the biblical God, so much so that His creation of human beings made in His image had to include freewill. Nevertheless, our choices made apart from God's wisdom lead to self-destruction. So it is not about "control", although God as Creator is certainly in control, it is about coming to the realization that the best choice, the choice which frees us from our sin and self destructive direction,is to response to our Creator with complete trust and submission to His will for us, which is perfect in eternal wisdom and love

Way too simplistic, formulaic, and two-dimensional to be an adequate grounding for how the universe works theologically.

 

[sojourner]

Yes, God (Jesus) is in control of all things and God is external:

"The Holy Spirit, in giving us this inspired passage of Scripture, now explains that all things (both visible and invisible) in the entire universe were created through this same Jesus, the Eternal Word. We may think of the universe and its intricate design as being conceived in the mind of the Father then spoken into existence by the Son (who makes the invisible, visible). The Holy Spirit is the One who energizes and supplies life to the creation, not only at the time of creation but also moment by moment after that.
We are also told that all things were created for Jesus. He is "the heir of all things." That means that we are house guests in Someone Else's universe. There is a future accountability to be given by all of us---history is headed somewhere and at the end of road stands Jesus to whom all power and authority has already been given:
Jesus said, "The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself, and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment." (John 5:22-29)

One of the key words in the Colossians passage above ("...and in Christ all things hold together") is the Greek word sunistemi which means "to stand-together," "to be compacted together," "to cohere," "to be constituted with."

Lambert Dolphin? Srrsly? He's about as credible as either an exegete or a theologian as Bozo the Clown.

 

[psychoslice]

The Saviour is the proof, with or without "u". Clever eh.

Ha, easily said.

 

[Yoshua]

So called scripture doesn't mean its true or literal, how can you prove the holy ghost, or Jesus, words from an old book means nothing without proof.

Hi Psycho,

Proof is felt by experiencing His love, his forgiveness, his loving-kindness, grace and mercy as accepting me as His children which I’m undeserving because of sin. The Holy Ghost was experienced by seeing and speaking the truth of Christ, for He reveals the truth about Him, and protected me from the evil one. It is not just an old book, but the true inspired word of Jesus Christ.

There are witness or proof coming from non-believer like the historian Josephus that Jesus truly exist.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

By having a still mind and not thinking of what you think things are and should be.

You just said "God" cannot do many things yourself. I suppose according to what you wrote, it's possible for "God" to lie if "with God all things are possible" and "he" can do whatever he wants and change outside of a particular nature.

Hi Uni,

Yes. He can do whatever He wants. That is very true, but the thing is, did God is an evil God or a Holy God?

I believed He is a Holy God, for a Holy God does not lie because It is not His nature to lie but to love, and speak the truth.

Why would anyone want "knowledge of" "God" rather than to know? Great lie.. that one cannot have knowledge of "God" outside of scriptures. The scriptures even say there is plenty outside of them.

Yes. Obviously man tried their best to reach the higher knowledge. Isn’t it? Who we are to attain the higher knowledge, kundalini’s, Chi’s and powers that may contribute to add to the mortal body. There is only one that I knew who say that there is plenty of knowledge outside the Scriptures. It is in the book of Genesis and Isaiah, the serpent, Lucifer.

Gen. 3:4-5
4. And the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.
5. "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.''

Isa. 14:12-14
12. "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!
13. For you have said in your heart: `I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north;
14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

Many of contradictions. How could "God" be "God" if "God" is incapable of teaching anyone outside of scriptures? According to you, yet another thing "God" cannot do.

You would be saying, "God" can't and doesn't have the power/capability to be revealed without a book.

It is not about the book. If somebody memorized the Scriptures, it is not already in the book, but it is in the mind. Therefore, anything that is about the word of God is not always on the book. I firmly believed it is in the heart and mind knowing His word is more important. Knowing a lot of Scriptures in the book without the right application in righteousness are useless. It is the Word of God, and not the book.

Heb. 13:31
31. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Yes, self help can be misleading in ways. There is a power within someone. Because something rests within someone doesn't make it "self-power." Im not sure you know what is work(action) and what isn't. Following is work, changing ones mind is work. Reading is work. Apparently the self has to do many things.

Yes, all we do is put into action by our physical body. That is a physical power. For spiritual power, it is coming from God’s power, the Holy Spirit and no other power.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

If the evil one is external to you, then there is nothing evil and internal to cast out.

How is something cast out that is external to someone?

It seems that I don’t get your point here. If there is no evil, yes what will we cast-out? That is logical. I believed that the evil can reside in the physical body, that is internal. Therefore, casting them out is letting the evil one to go away from the body of the victim.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

1) The bible is proof of nothing.
2) Prove factually that God exists.
3) Prove fatually that they're not the same thing.

Whenever you ask for factual proof where spiritual matters are concerned, you're asking for the wrong thing. And if you're asking for factual proof, then you don't understand spirituality enough to have a dog in this fight.

Hi Sojourner,

How can I give you a factual proof, if we already gone through a long pages for Contemplative thread with my supporting Scriptures. What’s the use of giving you a fact without believing with supporting Scriptures?

How about the fact that God truly answers our prayers, change you and transforming you to a new creature as having born anew. Casting out evil in the name of Christ, truly there is a powerful God that exist.

Thanks