The Emerging World Religion

[Yoshua]

"Evil one" is a highly poetic and metaphorical term. You'll have to be more specific here.

If somebody don’t believe in the evil one, how can you be protected from the evil one? Jesus cast-out the evil one. That is reality.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

There is a passage in scripture which speaks to me always of this very thing, though I think many don't see it in this context. To quote from the King James version since it's poetry flows with the passage,

Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Do you hear what this says? The lily is not manipulated by God. It grows from within. And that organic reality, of life within flowing outward, arrays it in such beauty that no human effort can begin to rival. And how does God clothe the grass of the field? With a can a spray paint? No, by instilling within it all the necessary ingredient to grow from within and be 'clothed' with that glory which is God. And so it is with us. The message is to not toil, spin, seeking to control, to manipulate, to impose, to dictate, to threaten, to demand, to intimidate, to frighten with torture others to conform to some external standard, but to allow what is within the freedom to array oneself with that Beauty that is within it, naturally.

Windwalker,

Plants is not the same as human being. Plants grow by themselves. Man is created in the image of God, and not the plants. Therefore, a creation in his image is under His Creator. If a creation want to be above His Creator, therefore this Scripture is telling us about the similarity of his nature and spirit.

Note: I’m not telling that it is you (personally).

Isa. 14:12-14
12. "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!
13. For you have said in your heart: `I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north;
14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

Thanks

 

[psychoslice]

Hi Psycho,

Proof is felt by experiencing His love, his forgiveness, his loving-kindness, grace and mercy as accepting me as His children which I’m undeserving because of sin. The Holy Ghost was experienced by seeing and speaking the truth of Christ, for He reveals the truth about Him, and protected me from the evil one. It is not just an old book, but the true inspired word of Jesus Christ.

There are witness or proof coming from non-believer like the historian Josephus that Jesus truly exist.

Thanks

Yes but many people feel that very same experience no matter what religion or belief you have, some of what Josephus wrote has been proven to be forgery, can you imagine if there was a man that did all that the bible says, like there was an earthquake after Jesus died, and the graves open and many walked into the city preaching, my god everyone would have written about such a thing. Jesus if he did exist, would have been an ordinary Enlightened man, just as there was many of such men back then, and even today there are many. Just as the stories of the Buddha are just stories, the same with Jesus, but that doesn't mean we can't learn something from the stories.

 

[Yoshua]

Actually, I want to thank you for linking to that 1920's material from that American Theosophist author. I've always been perplexed as long as I've heard it from fundamentalists of the coming "One World Religion" they demonize. Where did they get that from? Now I think I see it finally. They're still arguing with someone's idea from the 1920s as if it were the big "boogie man" today. Where in the Bible does it talk about there being a "One World Religion"? The only thing that comes to mind is these early fundamentalists, which themselves were born in that exact same time era as that Theosophist author was born, took in their paranoid thinking of the workings of Satan in the world in reading authors such as her, and reading it into the Bible in passages of the Book of Revelation, superimposing their paranoia into its highly obscure texts.

In other words, is this whole "One World Religion" hysteria the continuation of a fear-mongering response of fundamentalism in the 1920s to the Theosophist ideals? How absolutely ironic and absurd, if so. I'm really curious to understand more what the source of this modern hysteria was. It would seem to fit with fundamentalist thinking to never question the basis for these beliefs that were conjured up by those who came before them! It's so ironic to me. Here we are in the year 2015, still trying to deal with a fight from 1920s over something so originally misinformed.

I'm not saying that you are a theosophist, it does not mean that if you are not a theosophist, your concepts and principles are totally different from other doctrines. Other beliefs are not exempt in the similarity with contemplative and emerging movement, I believed this has been discussed before with you. This is not a fear mongering, but more of eschatological as based with the Scriptures.

http://www.gotquestions.org/one-world-government.html
The Bible does not use the phrase “one-world government” or “one-world currency” in referring to the end times. It does, however, provide ample evidence to enable us to draw the conclusion that both will exist under the rule of the Antichrist in the last days.

In his apocalyptic vision in the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John sees the “beast,” also called the Antichrist, rising out of the sea having seven heads and ten horns (Revelation 13:1). Combining this vision with Daniel’s similar one (Daniel 7:16-24), we can conclude that some sort of world system will be inaugurated by the beast, the most powerful “horn,” who will defeat the other nine and will begin to wage war against Christians. The ten-nation confederacy is also seen in Daniel’s image of the statue in Daniel 2:41-42, where he pictures the final world government consisting of ten entities represented by the ten toes of the statue. Whoever the ten are and however they come to power, Scripture is clear that the beast will either destroy them or reduce their power to nothing more than figureheads. In the end, they will do his bidding......

Thanks

 

[Unification]

Hi Uni,

Yes. He can do whatever He wants. That is very true, but the thing is, did God is an evil God or a Holy God?

I believed He is a Holy God, for a Holy God does not lie because It is not His nature to lie but to love, and speak the truth.Yes. Obviously man tried their best to reach the higher knowledge. Isn’t it? Who we are to attain the higher knowledge, kundalini’s, Chi’s and powers that may contribute to add to the mortal body. There is only one that I knew who say that there is plenty of knowledge outside the Scriptures. It is in the book of Genesis and Isaiah, the serpent, Lucifer.

Gen. 3:4-5
4. And the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.
5. "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.''

Isa. 14:12-14
12. "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!
13. For you have said in your heart: `I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north;
14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

It is not about the book. If somebody memorized the Scriptures, it is not already in the book, but it is in the mind. Therefore, anything that is about the word of God is not always on the book. I firmly believed it is in the heart and mind knowing His word is more important. Knowing a lot of Scriptures in the book without the right application in righteousness are useless. It is the Word of God, and not the book.

Heb. 13:31
31. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Yes, all we do is put into action by our physical body. That is a physical power. For spiritual power, it is coming from God’s power, the Holy Spirit and no other power.

Thanks

Then we can agree that "God" cannot do whatever "God" wants because to lie, cheat, murder, steal, etc. would be to change and disregard "God's" own laws. A whole/holy "God" wouldn't change from a particular nature, and the human would be rather naive to reverence a "God" that cannot even obey their own laws. We see time and time again human's making excuses and trying to justify things by creating "God" in their own image, dogma's, doctrines, and by literal interpretation of "scripture." Makes more sense that it's the human that is lying about "God" and being "evil." The excuse that "God" can do whatever "God" wants would be a lie.

The serpent wasn't lying, the serpent spoke the truth. Nobody physically died, but internally died by conscious fracture and separation. But speaking the truth, snakes don't talk.. the man, woman, and serpent are the three thinking minds, not external characters.

Those Isa. passages are also speaking of internal processes.

Agreed, if someone's inner character and nature are sound within mind and heart, they already know the entire bible without knowing it.

If it makes you feel better, I'd rather call it a hidden energy/power within the blood, water, oil, and spinal fluid within the human being rather than the Christ, Chrism, Holy Spirit, Chi, or Kundalini. If Kundalini is actually revealed within someone, they are receiving the Holy Spirit. Exact same power. I don't suppose that Love would be a respector of persons or a respector of certain words and languages only. The words are meaningless, it would be the direct experience and transformation that would be important.

 

[Unification]

I'm not saying that you are a theosophist, it does not mean that if you are not a theosophist, your concepts and principles are totally different from other doctrines. Other beliefs are not exempt in the similarity with contemplative and emerging movement, I believed this has been discussed before with you. This is not a fear mongering, but more of eschatological as based with the Scriptures.

http://www.gotquestions.org/one-world-government.html
The Bible does not use the phrase “one-world government” or “one-world currency” in referring to the end times. It does, however, provide ample evidence to enable us to draw the conclusion that both will exist under the rule of the Antichrist in the last days.

In his apocalyptic vision in the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John sees the “beast,” also called the Antichrist, rising out of the sea having seven heads and ten horns (Revelation 13:1). Combining this vision with Daniel’s similar one (Daniel 7:16-24), we can conclude that some sort of world system will be inaugurated by the beast, the most powerful “horn,” who will defeat the other nine and will begin to wage war against Christians. The ten-nation confederacy is also seen in Daniel’s image of the statue in Daniel 2:41-42, where he pictures the final world government consisting of ten entities represented by the ten toes of the statue. Whoever the ten are and however they come to power, Scripture is clear that the beast will either destroy them or reduce their power to nothing more than figureheads. In the end, they will do his bidding......

Thanks

Apocalypse means "revealing."

Does that really sound "in spirit and in truth?" Are you in a crystal clear conscious frame?

The sea is consciousness. The beast is the ego of a human. The human's world(mind) is driven/ruled by the power/energy of the ego and their anti-Christ inner characteristics.

The beast/ego and the serpent/brain stem. The woman is the subconscious mind riding the ego.

The 24 elders are the 12 pairs of cranial nerves.

In Daniel, there is a North and South kingdom. The South has two cranial nerves. The North has ten cranial nerves. The brainstem has 10 cranial nerves coming off of it. Those are your 10 horns. Seven heads are the seven main parts(heads) of the brain(head.)

Your marriage of the Lamb is an inner Union and marriage when the North Unites with the South. When the ego is overcome and the conscious unites with the subconscious. By the coming/revealing of the Christ energy/power within the bloodstream that purifies and cleanses the mind.

 

[Windwalker]

Plants is not the same as human being. Plants grow by themselves. Man is created in the image of God, and not the plants. Therefore, a creation in his image is under His Creator.

Seriously? You don't follow Jesus' analogy? If there was no comparison of the lilies of the field to humans living their lives, then why did Jesus bring it up? Your surprising response here should be directed at Jesus since he is the one who brought it up in the first place. "No Jesus! Plants are not the same as human beings!". Nice one. This is why some people shouldn't be allowed to read the Bible.

Let me help you out here since you obviously are unable to understand metaphors (in which case most of the Bible is inaccessible to your mind, and why your interpretations all land out in the sea somewhere). Jesus obviously meant for us to consider the comparison between the way we live our lives and the plants of the field considering he said the following words, "Consider the lilies of the field". What is that comparison, but what I said, what Jesus said. "They neither toil nor spin". How they grow is organic in nature. They have within them already all the potentials to become beautiful. And so do we.

Does this negate the need for instruction, nurturing, and so forth of children? Of course not. Humans are social animals and must learn the rule of society in order to function with others whom they need. Let's not get too literal in Jesus' comparision here, lest you get some very strange theological ideas to add to the ones you already have. His analogy speaks to the divine which is inherently within the plant, and how all our human efforts to makes ourselves beautiful fall way short of our natural glory. So.... this is why the mystic, those who seek to get out of the way to allow that divine life that lives within us to shine forth, not worrying about making ourselves look like some standard set for us by the church, are following what Jesus taught here.

If a creation want to be above His Creator, therefore this Scripture is telling us about the similarity of his nature and spirit.

There is not one mystic I am aware of who wants to be above God. It's a stupid aspiration, considering God is the Absolute. If one can be "above" the Absolute, then it's not the Absolute to begin with! The mystic's desire instead is to be united with God. Get things straight first in your criticisms.

All the rest of you comparing the mystic with Lucifer who wanted to be above God is you arguing with someone who is not in the conversation. Not sure who that would be? A projection of yourself?

 

[Windwalker]

I'm not saying that you are a theosophist, it does not mean that if you are not a theosophist, your concepts and principles are totally different from other doctrines.

It doesn't necessarily mean that, true. I'm not arguing that because I'm not a theosophist I don't have anything in common with them. I'm arguing that from what you presented, virtually none of it fits what I believe. I read it, and next to nothing agrees with or even remotely sounds like what I believe. But yet, you present it as if it does! Why? Should I quote from the Bahai faith and argue with you about it, claiming you believe the same things? Why don't you deal with the actual person in front of you, rather than quoting something I don't agree with as if it speaks for me? Can't you do that? Is that too hard? I think it is.

Again, let me give you a link to what actually reflects in a very high-level manner what my views are. Deal with those, not this silliness from some group over 80 years ago. Start here: http://www.beliefnet.com/Wellness/2004/03/An-Integral-Spirituality.aspx Enough with this "One world religion" nonsense.

Other beliefs are not exempt in the similarity with contemplative and emerging movement, I believed this has been discussed before with you.

Of course not. Mysticism exists in all religions. But the link you posted has nothing to do with my beliefs, nor are they "mystical" beliefs either. They are theological speculations by someone in the Theosophist movement from the 1920s! They do not represent "mystics" as a whole. Strawman argument.

This is not a fear mongering, but more of eschatological as based with the Scriptures.

Yes it is fearmongering. It's paranoia reading the Bible and imagining all sorts of things that most rational scholars see as nonsense. The Book of Revelation is extremely cryptic and symbolic, and any fool with a wild, or paranoid imagination can interpret it in a zillion different and contradictory ways. You should do some actual study of how people have interpreted that book throughout the ages. It's like silly-putty. It can be made to fit anything you want it to, to demonize whatever group you want it to, just like you are doing here. You know that book barely made it into the books included in the canon of scripture? You really should do some study of it through modern scholarship, as opposed to relying on the thoughts of those jumping up and down in their rapture shoes waiting for the end of the world to whisk them away to their heavenly rewards. *sigh*

http://www.gotquestions.org/one-world-government.html
The Bible does not use the phrase “one-world government” or “one-world currency” in referring to the end times. It does, however, provide ample evidence to enable us to draw the conclusion that both will exist under the rule of the Antichrist in the last days.

First of all, it doesn't mention "one world religion". That's not there. Secondly, the entire book of Revelation was a coded message about Rome in the day of the author of the book, John of Patmos (not Gospel John's author). All this reinterpreting it to predict our current modern age is again, silly-putty Bible work at its most creative.

In his apocalyptic vision in the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John sees the “beast,” also called the Antichrist, rising out of the sea having seven heads and ten horns (Revelation 13:1).

Again, the author is not the Apostle John. The entire writing style and language is different than G. John. And yes, the seven heads are the seven hills of Rome which was in existence during the days of John of Patmos, which he was referring to. It's a purely modern imagination that tries to make it fit the EU (ten kings) and so forth. I'm very well familiar with all of this, and it's laughable.

 

[sojourner]

How can I give you a factual proof

You can't. It's that simple.

 

[sojourner]

How about the fact that God truly answers our prayers, change you and transforming you to a new creature as having born anew

These aren't facts; they're beliefs.

 

[sojourner]

If somebody don’t believe in the evil one, how can you be protected from the evil one

Maybe "protection from the 'Evil One'" isn't what's needed.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus cast-out the evil one. That is reality.

"Jesus cast out the 'Evil One'." That is mythology.

 

[Yoshua]

Yes but many people feel that very same experience no matter what religion or belief you have, some of what Josephus wrote has been proven to be forgery, can you imagine if there was a man that did all that the bible says, like there was an earthquake after Jesus died, and the graves open and many walked into the city preaching, my god everyone would have written about such a thing. Jesus if he did exist, would have been an ordinary Enlightened man, just as there was many of such men back then, and even today there are many. Just as the stories of the Buddha are just stories, the same with Jesus, but that doesn't mean we can't learn something from the stories.

Hi Psycho,

I believed that your mind has fed up with distorted information to prove that Jesus existed already. I cited Josephus to prove to that I’m not biased with my example. If I used the disciples of Jesus and Paul as my witness to Jesus existence, would you believe that? It can be seen in the Bible.

If there is Red Sea, Sea of Galilee, Mount Sinai, Jordan River and other places mentioned in the Bible that are existing, would it be a proof or evidence that those place really exists?

By the way, what is your source of information to prove that Jesus did not exist? Can you show it to me?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Then we can agree that "God" cannot do whatever "God" wants because to lie, cheat, murder, steal, etc. would be to change and disregard "God's" own laws. A whole/holy "God" wouldn't change from a particular nature, and the human would be rather naive to reverence a "God" that cannot even obey their own laws. We see time and time again human's making excuses and trying to justify things by creating "God" in their own image, dogma's, doctrines, and by literal interpretation of "scripture." Makes more sense that it's the human that is lying about "God" and being "evil." The excuse that "God" can do whatever "God" wants would be a lie.

Hi Uni,

So, if that is your logical concept about God can do whatever He want including to cheat, to lie, to kill etc.. It just like you are saying a fish can be place on the dry land. A fish will die if he does not live in the water. It is the nature of the fish to live in the water, Isn't it?

Same as God who is the Holy God, His nature is not to lie, but full of truth and love. . We don’t say God cannot do lying, but God’s nature is not to lie.

It is a long way to go regarding human making excuses, and creating God in their own image by literal interpretation of the Scriptures. I believed there should be a basis on detecting false doctrine and interpretation.

The serpent wasn't lying, the serpent spoke the truth. Nobody physically died, but internally died by conscious fracture and separation. But speaking the truth, snakes don't talk.. the man, woman, and serpent are the three thinking minds, not external characters.

If the serpent spoke the truth, why people did not become God? Did you become God? They're spiritually dead, but spiritually alive in Christ though sin separates us from God. The serpent is a separate character (obviously) stated in the book of Genesis.

Gen. 3:1-2
1. Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said, `You shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?''
2. And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden;

Those Isa. passages are also speaking of internal processes.

Agreed, if someone's inner character and nature are sound within mind and heart, they already know the entire bible without knowing it.

Those passages about the serpent (Lucifer) has anything to do with internal processes--as knowing the entire Bible. I don’t see anyone born knowing all the Scriptures already. Did you now someone who knows the Bible already?

If it makes you feel better, I'd rather call it a hidden energy/power within the blood, water, oil, and spinal fluid within the human being rather than the Christ, Chrism, Holy Spirit, Chi, or Kundalini. If Kundalini is actually revealed within someone, they are receiving the Holy Spirit. Exact same power. I don't suppose that Love would be a respector of persons or a respector of certain words and languages only. The words are meaningless, it would be the direct experience and transformation that would be important.

New Age used those terms like Chi and Kundalini as the same with Holy Spirit. Can you show me how they became the same in power and the same source or origin? Who adhere to Chi and Kundalinis?

What kind of transformation is important?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Apocalypse means "revealing."

Does that really sound "in spirit and in truth?" Are you in a crystal clear conscious frame?

The sea is consciousness. The beast is the ego of a human. The human's world(mind) is driven/ruled by the power/energy of the ego and their anti-Christ inner characteristics.

The beast/ego and the serpent/brain stem. The woman is the subconscious mind riding the ego.

The 24 elders are the 12 pairs of cranial nerves.

These principles and concepts are not Christianity of Christ’s truth. Absolutely!

In Daniel, there is a North and South kingdom. The South has two cranial nerves. The North has ten cranial nerves. The brainstem has 10 cranial nerves coming off of it. Those are your 10 horns. Seven heads are the seven main parts(heads) of the brain(head.)

Your marriage of the Lamb is an inner Union and marriage when the North Unites with the South. When the ego is overcome and the conscious unites with the subconscious. By the coming/revealing of the Christ energy/power within the bloodstream that purifies and cleanses the mind.

That seems a biblical interpretation that was injected with man-made doctrine.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

These aren't facts; they're beliefs.

Sure. That is my beliefs that has the truth of Christ. I don't formulate my own beliefs in my own experience without the basis of truth.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Maybe "protection from the 'Evil One'" isn't what's needed.

Therefore, you mean there is no evil existence, no evil and because of that you did not believe there is evil. Right?

Thanks

 

[psychoslice]

Hi Psycho,

I believed that your mind has fed up with distorted information to prove that Jesus existed already. I cited Josephus to prove to that I’m not biased with my example. If I used the disciples of Jesus and Paul as my witness to Jesus existence, would you believe that? It can be seen in the Bible.

If there is Red Sea, Sea of Galilee, Mount Sinai, Jordan River and other places mentioned in the Bible that are existing, would it be a proof or evidence that those place really exists?

By the way, what is your source of information to prove that Jesus did not exist? Can you show it to me?

Thanks

No, your the one who believes in Jesus, you have to prove that to me, and if you do believe in Jesus, was he the Jesus from the bible and did he do all that the bible says he did, like walking on water, turning water to win ?, we all know that these thing cannot happen and never did happen, well at least literally.

 

[Yoshua]

No, your the one who believes in Jesus, you have to prove that to me, and if you do believe in Jesus, was he the Jesus from the bible and did he do all that the bible says he did, like walking on water, turning water to win ?, we all know that these thing cannot happen and never did happen, well at least literally.

Hi Psycho,

When Jesus started His ministry with the disciples, He truly allowed Himself those miracles and supernatural things to happen so they will believe that He is God sent by the Father(God). The promises of God like the Holy Spirit was truly poured at the Pentecost, and until now that Holy Spirit is still the same Holy Spirit for all followers of Jesus Christ. Jesus warned them regarding counterfeit miracles, false prophets, heretic doctrine, and people who will claim as Christ including the deceiving signs and wonders.
This is the reason why we used the Scriptures as the statement witnessed by His Apostles/disciples. Truly when Jesus uttered He is the truth. He is the only one who professed that He is the truth and no other one.

Thanks

 

[psychoslice]

Hi Psycho,

When Jesus started His ministry with the disciples, He truly allowed Himself those miracles and supernatural things to happen so they will believe that He is God sent by the Father(God). The promises of God like the Holy Spirit was truly poured at the Pentecost, and until now that Holy Spirit is still the same Holy Spirit for all followers of Jesus Christ. Jesus warned them regarding counterfeit miracles, false prophets, heretic doctrine, and people who will claim as Christ including the deceiving signs and wonders.
This is the reason why we used the Scriptures as the statement witnessed by His Apostles/disciples. Truly when Jesus uttered He is the truth. He is the only one who professed that He is the truth and no other one.

Thanks

No I cannot agree with any of that, sorry but thanks.