The empty tomb

[waitasec]

The idea that you can prove whether or not there were a couple of guards placed at a tomb 2000
years later is just nonsense

the idea of a resurrection occurring is just as nonsensical...

 

[allright]

the idea of a resurrection occurring is just as nonsensical...

"the cross is foolishness to those who are pershing, but to those of us who are being saved it is the power of God"

"Behold you scoffers, scoff and perish for I will do a deed in your days you will never believe should someone tell it to you"

 

[allright]

The tomb was empty cause those who changed the bible to say that Christ was crucified forgot one important thing. If he died, then there would be a body or a burial site at least. But there was no body or burial site because he did not die on the cross, but Allah (SWT) gave them his likeness to do their evil deeds, and took the real Christ up into the heavens. So when they came to find the body of Christ, the likeness which was given to them had already disappeared.

1 If the Bible was changed tell me exactly which parts where changed
2 Tell me exactly word for word what these parts originally said
3 Show me one ancient copy or partial copy of the Bible that show these parts that were changed as you claim they were originally

 

[Agnostic75]

I provided a detailed, two part opening post. Since the beginning of this thread, no one has provided anywhere near a detailed rebuttal of the opening post.

 

[McBell]

"the cross is foolishness to those who are pershing, but to those of us who are being saved it is the power of God"

"Behold you scoffers, scoff and perish for I will do a deed in your days you will never believe should someone tell it to you"

Interesting how you avoid addressing the point by reinforcing the point.

 

[Agnostic75]

For those Christians who do not have any interest in Christian apologetics, and prefer instead to preach, I started this thread in order to discuss Christian apologetics. Consider the following:

Christian apologetics (from Greek ἀπολογία, "speaking in defense") is a field of Christian theology that aims to present a rational basis for the Christian faith, defend the faith against objections, and expose the perceived flaws of other world views. Christian apologetics has taken many forms over the centuries, starting with Paul the Apostle, including writers such as Origen and Augustine of Hippo, and continuing currently with the modern Christian community through the efforts of many authors in various Christian traditions such as G.K.Chesterton and C. S. Lewis. Apologists have based their defense of Christianity on historical evidence, philosophical arguments, scientific investigation, and arguments from other disciplines. Christian polemic is a term used for apologetics which primarily criticizes or attacks other belief systems.

Christians who use Christian apologetics attempt to use common sense, logic, and reason regarding discussing, as the article says, "historical evidence, philosophical arguments, scientific investigation, and arguments from other disciplines." Now why are so many Christians interested in Christian apologetics (such as CARM, the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry), not just in preaching? Well, because they know that their main intended audience are non-Christian, and that the vast majority of that audience are not interested in preaching. They also know that their non-Christian debate opponents can very easily find lots of preaching in many places other than at public discussion forums.

There is also the issue of courtesy, and proper etiquette. If a person starts a thread with the intention of discussing evidence, and some people start preaching, that is not proper, especially since most of what Christians quote is already widely known by non-Christians, many of whom were former Christians. Imagine what would happen if a lot of people from different religions showed up in the same thread, and all that everyone did was preach about their own religion, and refused to discuss the topic of the thread. Quite soon, most people would lose interest in the thread.

There is also the issue that Christians who want to preach can easily start as many threads of their own as they wish and preach all that they want to. Of course, they will not have much of an audience.

 

[waitasec]

"the cross is foolishness to those who are pershing, but to those of us who are being saved it is the power of God"

"Behold you scoffers, scoff and perish for I will do a deed in your days you will never believe should someone tell it to you"

oh i see a self defeating passive aggressive tactic... congratulations :clap

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Here is what I said in the opening post:

"Even assuming for the sake of argument that Jesus was buried in Joseph of Arimathea’s tomb, that guards were posted at the tomb, that the body was not stolen or moved, and that the tomb was found empty three days later, without sufficient evidence that Jesus made post-resurrection appearances, a plausible case can be made that Jesus rose from the dead, and ascended directly into heaven without making any appearances."

Please not "for the sake of argument." I was only catering to conservative Christians a little in order to show that an empty tomb, and guards at the tomb, is not very useful evidence without subsequent evidence regarding Jesus' post-resurrection appearances.

I was just adding a chuckle

 

[Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala]

The Quran is the word of God and in it lies the truth about the bible for those who are willing to reflect and those who are not too full of pride and for those who want to learn and accept that we are all created by the same God and that God is not just for the whites, blacks, asians or coloureds.

 

[McBell]

The Quran is the word of God and in it lies the truth about the bible for those who are willing to reflect and those who are not too full of pride and for those who want to learn and accept that we are all created by the same God and that God is not just for the whites, blacks, asians or coloureds.

interestingly enough, the exact same thing can be said when you replace the word "Quran" with the word "Bible".
Or "Vedas".

what makes it interesting is the fact that even when you replace the words, you have the exact same amount of validity in the statement.

 

[Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala]

There are too many contradictions in the bible and this is proof that it was changed. Also the bible was written by men (the 12 disciples) and the Quran is written by God. If you think that the vedas is right, then go pray to a statue and see if it can bring the dead back to life.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

There are too many contradictions in the bible and this is proof that it was changed. Also the bible was written by men (the 12 disciples) and the Quran is written by God. If you think that the vedas is right, then go pray to a statue and see if it can bring the dead back to life.

Nobody's ever brought anyone dead back to life. So, still a level playing field.

Unless we're talking about doctors.

 

[Nabeel Akhalwaya Motala]

Lazarus was brought back to life after he died.

 

[Agnostic75]

Lazarus was brought back to life after he died.

This thread is about the guards at the tomb. If you wish to discuss Lazarus, please start a new thread.

 

[Thief]

There is also the issue that Christians who want to preach can easily start as many threads of their own as they wish and preach all that they want to. Of course, they will not have much of an audience.

And you would be doing the same, for motivation other than attention?

Perhaps you would say again the cause for your posting?
Why do you care if there were guards at the stone of the tomb?....or not?

 

[Agnostic75]

And you would be doing the same, for motivation other than attention?

No, I would not be doing the same since my detailed, two part opening post deals with Bible apologetics, not with preaching.

Perhaps you would say again the cause for your posting?

Why do you care if there were guards at the stone of the tomb?.......or not?

First of all, if guards were not posted at the tomb, that is reasonable proof that the Bible is not inerrant. Second, many conservative Christians make a big deal out of the empty tomb. If guards were not posted at the tomb, that obviously makes the empty tomb much less credible as evidence.

 

[Thief]

No, I would not be doing the same since my detailed, two part opening post deals with Bible apologetics, not with preaching.

First of all, if guards were not posted at the tomb, that is reasonable proof that the Bible is not inerrant. Second, many conservative Christians make a big deal out of the empty tomb. If guards were not posted at the tomb, that obviously makes the empty tomb much less credible as evidence.

And accepting that guards were there....would be a mistake?
I have no problem with guards at the tomb.
As noted in scripture there was cause to do so.

Asleep at the post?...probably.
Bribed to keep their mouths shut?...probably.

Life after death?....hope so.

 

[Agnostic75]

And accepting that guards were there....would be a mistake? As noted in scripture there was cause to do so.

No, there was not cause to do so, for the many reasons that I stated in my detailed two part opening post. Do you wish to discuss the opening post in detail or not? That only way that you can have a chance to successfully refute my arguments is to discuss them. If you are not interested in Christian apologetics, and your only evidence that guards were posted at the tomb is faith, just say so.

Do you believe that a global flood occurred? If so, we can discuss that issue at the Evolution/Creation forum.

 

[Agnostic75]

Of course, both of you are assuming that Jesus' corpse was in fact put in the tomb to begin with.

No, I do not actually make that assumption. I only made it for the sake of argument for purposes of this thread so that there can be common ground for some discussions. There is not sufficient historical evidence that Jesus was put in Joseph of Arimathaea's tomb.

 

[outhouse]

There are too many contradictions in the bible and this is proof that it was changed. Also the bible was written by men (the 12 disciples) and the Quran is written by God. If you think that the vedas is right, then go pray to a statue and see if it can bring the dead back to life.

I never the knew the abrahamic god was even literate.

Im positive he has never written a word on paper or papyrus.