The End is near...or is it?

[URAVIP2ME]

The same source says te earth is flat, 6,ooo years old, and the entire universe revolves around it, so you'll forgive us if we see that your source has zero credibility.

Isaiah [40v22] never wrote the earth is flat but circular which does not necessarily mean flat. Back then men could look up as see the sun and moon as a 'ball' not a pancake.

Genesis [2v4] sums up all of the creative days as a 'day' showing that the word day in Scripture has shades of meaning. There is no mention in Genesis of how long each creative day is, or even if each 'day' was of the same length of time. Jesus 1000-year day is a millennial-long day so to speak.
Remember the 7th day has No close mentioned. The 7th day was still on going in Paul's day according to Hebrews [4vs4-10].

The 'dark ages' weren't called dark for no reason. The Bible never taught the universe revolves around the earth. People were forbidden to own a Bible or even pages of the Bible so they were dependent on what the clergy class told them. Luke wrote [Acts 20vs29,30] that after first-century Christianity ended that wolf-like clergy [dressed in sheep's clothing] would fleece the flock. This would happen after the end of the first century when fake [weed] Christians would grow together with genuine [wheat] Christians until the harvest time or our time of separation when Jesus will separate peoples as Described at Matthew 25vs31,32.

So the zero-credibility source is Not the Bible but what the clergy of the churches of Christendom have taught instead of listening to the words that came out of Jesus mouth they put words, so to speak, in his mouth in order to often further their own agenda which is often not Scriptural but political.

 

[Revoltingest]

A revolting ode to the art of dynamic prediction

To urge repentance using fear,
they say the end is almost here.
But then they must
their date adjust
to float so that it's always near.

.

 

[justbehappy]

Like you said, people have thought since the beginning of Christianity that "the end is near." The only reason I can think that it is more likely today that it is near is because in today's day and age, there is a possibility of a man-made "end." AKA a nuclear war

 

[ἄθεος]

According to science there will be an end to our sun.
Does science always know what God as Creator has in store?
Psalm 119v90 says God established the earth and it abides.
Abides, according to Ecclesiastes 1v4, abides forever.
Psalm 78v69 says the earth is established forever.
Psalm 93v1; 1 Chronicles 16v30 the established earth can not be moved
Psalm 104v5 earth's foundations will not be removed forever.

What will 'end' according to Psalm [92v7] is the wicked on earth.
The earth stays; the wicked go- Proverbs 2vs21,22; 10v30.

God who created the sun can do what is necessary to maintain what is needed for the earth to continue, and for humble meek people to remain here as promised at Psalm 37vs11,29.

In the meantime, now is nearing the time, not for the end of earth, but for the end times of all badness on earth before Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill. In other words, these are the last days of badness on earth not the last days of earth.

Science has been observing other stars in the universe for centuries and has recorded various types in various parts of their life cycle. They use these observations to determine the age of our own sun and the solar system within which our planet is located. They have good reason to support their hypothesis that our sun will, in fact, turn into a red giant and either consume our Earth or force it far beyond our known habitable zone, eventually left to sit cold and dormant once that red giant likely becomes a dwarf. In either circumstance the Earth may remain in some form, but incapable of sheltering life and with no resemblance whatsoever of how it appears today. Our world, as we know it, will end and all life on it ("good" or "evil") will cease to exist.

And the Earth can move, will be moved, and has always been moving. It's not simply orbiting the sun, but is in an outer arm of the Milky Way orbiting the center of a galaxy which has also been moving, and is actually scheduled to collide with Andromeda in a few million years.

 

[ἄθεος]

Like you said, people have thought since the beginning of Christianity that "the end is near." The only reason I can think that it is more likely today that it is near is because in today's day and age, there is a possibility of a man-made "end." AKA a nuclear war

Part of the problem is that, to my knowledge, this inevitable "end" is never consistently defined and means different things to different people. This ambiguity allows for easy backpedaling and "re-scheduling", of sorts, whenever the expected end doesn't arrive.

I can't wait for the next excuse in 2013.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Science has been observing other stars in the universe for centuries and has recorded various types in various parts of their life cycle. They use these observations to determine the age of our own sun and the solar system within which our planet is located. They have good reason to support their hypothesis that our sun will, in fact, turn into a red giant and either consume our Earth or force it far beyond our known habitable zone, eventually left to sit cold and dormant once that red giant likely becomes a dwarf. In either circumstance the Earth may remain in some form, but incapable of sheltering life and with no resemblance whatsoever of how it appears today. Our world, as we know it, will end and all life on it ("good" or "evil") will cease to exist.
And the Earth can move, will be moved, and has always been moving. It's not simply orbiting the sun, but is in an outer arm of the Milky Way orbiting the center of a galaxy which has also been moving, and is actually scheduled to collide with Andromeda in a few million years.

According to Scripture Satan is now the god of this world today- 2 Cor 4v4.
Satan's 'godship' is temporary. Jesus will destroy Satan.-Hebrews 2v14 b.
Science does not know all there is to know because of Satan's influence.
According to Scripture God gifted the earth to mankind to enjoy forever.
God as Creator can keep his promised gift to us in a way that science today knows nothing about. If God wishes an old warn-out garment to be changed [Psalm 102v26] it will be changed. So according to Scripture God will keep his promise and the earth abides forever.- Ecc 1v4 b

We are so confident when we go to bed at night that the sun and earth will be here in the morning that mankind makes sure plans around that fact.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Oh my what is going to happen May 21st 2011. It will be day to remember to say the least.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Like you said, people have thought since the beginning of Christianity that "the end is near." The only reason I can think that it is more likely today that it is near is because in today's day and age, there is a possibility of a man-made "end." AKA a nuclear war

First of all, Jesus illustration of Luke [19vs11-15] shows that the end of all badness on earth would not occur early on. Jesus would first go away to a far country [heaven] for a while before taking action. -Isaiah 11v4.

Since God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth {Rev 11v18 B] then happily not nuclear war, but rather what is seen in world events today:
1) The attitudes and actions of people
[compare today's selfish distorted form of love described at 2nd Timothy 3 vs 1-5, 13 with the Christ-like love defined at 1st Cor 13 vs 4-6],
2) also bad religious circumstances such as religious terrorism that destabilizes society
3) and the political circumstances
4) All this coupled with God's people world wide proclaiming the good news of God's kingdom on a global scale as the solution to mankind's problems.
-Matt 24v14.

Political circumstances are at the point of Daniel [2v42].
In chapter two each metal of the huge image, describing the rise and fall of successive world powers, represents a metal or government coming down in value getting weaker and weaker until it reaches the feet, or until the nations are so fragmented and fragile like clay mixed with iron not sticking together. So weak that it can no longer stand up for itself.
We are at the point of the 'toe nails' when God's kingdom [vs44] described as a 'stone' [vs34,45] will strike the feet of the political image, or present day rulers 'kings' before it collapses and God's kingdom or royal government in the hands of Christ Jesus [7vs13,14] will be the only rulership left standing to reign over earth.

So the end is not the end of the earth but the end of all badness on earth.
We are at the end times of badness on earth, or time of the end for all badness on earth to end and Jesus to usher in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

 

[Duck]

On another forum that I frequent(non-religious) there was a discussion going on about the current events in the middle east,particularily regarding Israel. Anyway,quite a few of the posters believe this is end times prophecy manifesting itself. My question is this-Do the current events really correspond with end times prophecy as laid out in the Bible? I don't really care if you believe it's true or not, but if you have a good knowledge of the Bible and it's end times prophecy I'd like to hear from you.
As far as I can see, Christians since the time of Christ have believed that the end is near. Is there any reason to think that the current events are more indicative of end times than any other time in history? It's been a while since I read the Bible,but from what I recall there are still many things left undone for the prophecies to be considered fulfilled. I think sometimes people see doom and gloom around them and think it's unprecedented and must therefore indicate some sort of impending apocalypse,but so far I'm not convinced.

I can't really speak to christian prophecy, and perhaps due to the Heathen in me my response to the whole "the end is nigh" and what not is, '...and?' Really, what am I supposed to do about the twilight of the gods? Accept what is and deal with things as they come, flailing about trying to figure out if this is the end, or if this prophecy has been fulfilled or that is a waste of time carry on with your lives as if it weren't your precious end times. I will fight the bad guys on the side of the gods, even though we all know that Ragnarok is essentially a doomed effort. There are only a few to survive and carry on, and I am not slated to be among them, and neither are most of the gods. All know this, but to not strive would be worse, and all would fall. If as all the christians are wailing, we are living in the end times, the christians should be rejoicing, right? I mean isn't that what the end times for christianity is all about, Jesus, the Prince of Peace, coming back and going all WWF on the wicked, while the 'saved' cheer and laugh about the sinners roasting in fire, or at least bask in the glory of the lord or something?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I mean isn't that what the end times for christianity is all about, Jesus, the Prince of Peace, coming back and going all WWF on the wicked, while the 'saved' cheer and laugh about the sinners roasting in fire, or at least bask in the glory of the lord or something?

According to Isaiah [11v4]; Revelation [19vs11,14,15] Jesus does do away with those of Psalm 92v7 [wicked], and the sheep-like ones of Matthew [25v32] are saved or delivered from the end times of badness on earth when Jesus as Prince of Peace ushers in Peace on earth toward men of goodwill.
-Isa 9v7; Rev 7v14.

As far as roasting in fire: Often fire in Scripture is symbolic of destruction or annihilation. The fire of Matt [25v41] is symbolic of destruction of the Devil and not people. Jesus destroys Satan. - Hebrews 2v14 b.
The everlasting punishment for people [not demons] of Matt 25v46 is not fire but as 2nd Thess 1v9 connects such punishment with everlasting destruction.
Which is in harmony with the eternal destruction of those of Psalm [92v7].

No Scriptures say those sheep-like people are cheering.
After all they have worked hard warning people globally as Matt [24v14] says.
Rather, as Rev [7v17;21v4] says God wipes the tears away from their eyes.

 

[ἄθεος]

We are so confident when we go to bed at night that the sun and earth will be here in the morning that mankind makes sure plans around that fact.

I don't really understand the relevance. We're confident the Earth will be here in the morning (morning, of course, relative to our location on the globe) because, statistically, the chances are astronomical that it will be. But no rational adult, especially a scientist, should ever discount the possibility that our sun explodes earlier than expected or that our Earth will be wiped out by a massive comet. We make plans because the liklihood of our Earth remaining as we know it for many generations, if not millions of years, is a better bet. But that changing at any time is not impossible.

 

[AxisMundi]

Isaiah [40v22] never wrote the earth is flat but circular which does not necessarily mean flat. Back then men could look up as see the sun and moon as a 'ball' not a pancake.

Genesis [2v4] sums up all of the creative days as a 'day' showing that the word day in Scripture has shades of meaning. There is no mention in Genesis of how long each creative day is, or even if each 'day' was of the same length of time. Jesus 1000-year day is a millennial-long day so to speak.
Remember the 7th day has No close mentioned. The 7th day was still on going in Paul's day according to Hebrews [4vs4-10].

The 'dark ages' weren't called dark for no reason. The Bible never taught the universe revolves around the earth. People were forbidden to own a Bible or even pages of the Bible so they were dependent on what the clergy class told them. Luke wrote [Acts 20vs29,30] that after first-century Christianity ended that wolf-like clergy [dressed in sheep's clothing] would fleece the flock. This would happen after the end of the first century when fake [weed] Christians would grow together with genuine [wheat] Christians until the harvest time or our time of separation when Jesus will separate peoples as Described at Matthew 25vs31,32.

So the zero-credibility source is Not the Bible but what the clergy of the churches of Christendom have taught instead of listening to the words that came out of Jesus mouth they put words, so to speak, in his mouth in order to often further their own agenda which is often not Scriptural but political.

1. A circle is a two dimension figure. It is flat.

2. I never questioned the "day", knowing that you would introduce this strawman. The order of "creation" runs coutner to what we know. Genesis 1 states that the earth and universe were createsd at the same time, and the stars "created" long afterwards on the 4th day. It also claims that life started on the land, whcih we know to be false. It also states that water was here before the land, another mistake. Also, when one coutns generations lsited in your scripture, we arrive at an age of the earth odf app 6,000 years, this makes you mythical flood occuring at around 2200 BCE. We have writtings far older than that, and none mention so much as a prevailing damp. Also, the bible does indeed claim the earth does not move. It is "fixed in the firmament" and "immovable".

Throw in all the other mistakes, self-contradictions, and disproved myths, and we see that your scriptures do indeed lack any credibility whatsoever. From Adam and WEve to Flood & Noah's Ark, right up to the end.

3. Cite your source for your bible being outlawed for individual ownership.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

1. A circle is a two dimension figure. It is flat.

2. I never questioned the "day", knowing that you would introduce this strawman. The order of "creation" runs coutner to what we know. Genesis 1 states that the earth and universe were createsd at the same time, and the stars "created" long afterwards on the 4th day. It also claims that life started on the land, whcih we know to be false. It also states that water was here before the land, another mistake. Also, when one coutns generations lsited in your scripture, we arrive at an age of the earth odf app 6,000 years, this makes you mythical flood occuring at around 2200 BCE. We have writtings far older than that, and none mention so much as a prevailing damp. Also, the bible does indeed claim the earth does not move. It is "fixed in the firmament" and "immovable".

Throw in all the other mistakes, self-contradictions, and disproved myths, and we see that your scriptures do indeed lack any credibility whatsoever. From Adam and WEve to Flood & Noah's Ark, right up to the end.

3. Cite your source for your bible being outlawed for individual ownership.

History is a reliable source. Translators had to even risk life to translate the Bible in common language such as Peter Waldo. The Council of Toulouse in 1229 banned the possession of Scriptural books only allowing books of liturgy allowed in the dead language of Latin. The council of Narbonne also forbid the possession of any part of the Bible by laymen. In 1199 Pope Innocent III wrote the archbishop of Metz, Germany that the archbishop burned all the German-language Bibles that he could. In 1223 the synod of Tarragona, Spain demanded all books of the OT,NT be burned. In 1407 the synod of clergy in Oxford, England by Archbishop Thomas Arundal forbid translation into English or any other modern tongue. In 1431 England Bishop Stafford of Wells forbid translating Bibles into English and the owning of English translations.
Tomas de Torquemada led the Spanish Inquisition.
Spaniard Julian Hernandez along with others were burnt, twenty roasted upon spits. Why? Hernandez has smuggles Spanish-languages Bibles into Spain.
Michael Servetus was also burned alive.

Will Durant wrote The Age of Faith.
Margaret Deanesly wrote The Lollard Bible and other Medieval Biblical Versions.
John Foxe wrote The History of Christian Martyrdom.
Hans Eberhard Mayer, The Crusades, translated by John Gillingham.
Edith Firoozi; Ira N. Klein wrote the Universal History of the World
Joel Dorman Steele; Ester Baker steel wrote A Brief History of Ancient , Medieval, and Modern Peoples.
___________________________________________________________________

'Circle' has to do with the word horizon [chug;hhug]

Genesis 1v1 does Not mention the heavens coming before the earth. Heavens first and that is the correct chronological order.
The creative days are not meant to be dealing with matter or material but focus on arranging and preparing of the earth for mankind to inhabit the earth.

Where does it say the stars were created on the 4th creative day?
Doesn't it say 'rule' or 'rule over'? The already existing created stars were made to rule. It doesn't say they were created that day but 'made' to do something on that day. Made and create are two different words in Hebrew.
Even today we might say parents created a child but made that child sit in a chair.

Gen 1v21 mentions God created the whales or sea creatures. In the Hebrew the word waiyivra [from bara] is showing progressive action in that verse of day four. Human life started on land according to Gen 2v7.

Of course there are writings older than the Flood at least as far as on a non-perishable item, plus other artifacts used before the Flood.
How many nations and islands have a Flood account in their history?

We do not arrive at the age of the earth by counting generations.
We arrive at the age of people being on the already existing earth.
Because of the accuracy of microwaves [CMBR] we have the dating of the earth and not the dating of the people living on earth.

Genesis is about two accounts of creation from two different viewpoints:
The first describing creation of the heavens and earth and all in them.
Gen 1v1-2v4.
The second concentrates on the creation of the human race and what happened and what will happen.- Gen 2v5-4v26

 

[AxisMundi]

History is a reliable source. Translators had to even risk life to translate the Bible in common language such as Peter Waldo. The Council of Toulouse in 1229 banned the possession of Scriptural books only allowing books of liturgy allowed in the dead language of Latin. The council of Narbonne also forbid the possession of any part of the Bible by laymen. In 1199 Pope Innocent III wrote the archbishop of Metz, Germany that the archbishop burned all the German-language Bibles that he could. In 1223 the synod of Tarragona, Spain demanded all books of the OT,NT be burned. In 1407 the synod of clergy in Oxford, England by Archbishop Thomas Arundal forbid translation into English or any other modern tongue. In 1431 England Bishop Stafford of Wells forbid translating Bibles into English and the owning of English translations.
Tomas de Torquemada led the Spanish Inquisition.
Spaniard Julian Hernandez along with others were burnt, twenty roasted upon spits. Why? Hernandez has smuggles Spanish-languages Bibles into Spain.
Michael Servetus was also burned alive.

Will Durant wrote The Age of Faith.
Margaret Deanesly wrote The Lollard Bible and other Medieval Biblical Versions.
John Foxe wrote The History of Christian Martyrdom.
Hans Eberhard Mayer, The Crusades, translated by John Gillingham.
Edith Firoozi; Ira N. Klein wrote the Universal History of the World
Joel Dorman Steele; Ester Baker steel wrote A Brief History of Ancient , Medieval, and Modern Peoples.
___________________________________________________________________

'Circle' has to do with the word horizon [chug;hhug]

Genesis 1v1 does Not mention the heavens coming before the earth. Heavens first and that is the correct chronological order.
The creative days are not meant to be dealing with matter or material but focus on arranging and preparing of the earth for mankind to inhabit the earth.

Where does it say the stars were created on the 4th creative day?
Doesn't it say 'rule' or 'rule over'? The already existing created stars were made to rule. It doesn't say they were created that day but 'made' to do something on that day. Made and create are two different words in Hebrew.
Even today we might say parents created a child but made that child sit in a chair.

Gen 1v21 mentions God created the whales or sea creatures. In the Hebrew the word waiyivra [from bara] is showing progressive action in that verse of day four. Human life started on land according to Gen 2v7.

Of course there are writings older than the Flood at least as far as on a non-perishable item, plus other artifacts used before the Flood.
How many nations and islands have a Flood account in their history?

We do not arrive at the age of the earth by counting generations.
We arrive at the age of people being on the already existing earth.
Because of the accuracy of microwaves [CMBR] we have the dating of the earth and not the dating of the people living on earth.

Genesis is about two accounts of creation from two different viewpoints:
The first describing creation of the heavens and earth and all in them.
Gen 1v1-2v4.
The second concentrates on the creation of the human race and what happened and what will happen.- Gen 2v5-4v26

1. Links please. I don't have to do your homework for you, and to be frank, you do not have enough credibility to take your posts at word value. BTW, banning english translations isn't "banning the bible".

2. No, the circle refers to the planet, not the "horizon". There is also the matter of people on mountaintops being able to "see all of creation". Can't do that on a globe.

3. Nice attempt at apologetics, but you have failed. The bible is right there for everyone to read. It claims that the heavens, minus stars, and the earth were created together. It claims the stars "lights in the sky to seperate night and day" came about on day four. It claims the earth was covered in water before land appeared, it claims life began on the land. These, and the entire book, are bas ackwards.

4. Yes, many peoples ahve flood myths. Not suprising considering that a. Man was around at the end of the last great Ice Age and watched the sea levels change, and b. human beings have historically sought areas where there is abundant water, water that occasionally floods. There simply is no indications of any world wide deluge. No massive layers of fossil materials, no fossils on mountain tops that were not once bottoms of inland seas, no long breaks in writtings as a civilation rebuilt itself from the decendants of Noah, and there is the simple matter of there not being enough water ont he planet to completely inundate the surface.

5. I quite agree that we do not arrive at the age of the earth by counting generations, if "we" refers to science. The Bible, however, states the earth to be some 6,000 years old. This is done by counting the unbroken generations since Adam and Eve to Abraham as found in the scriptures. And again, evidence proves the myth of Adam and Eve to be pure fabrication. First, Minimal Population Viability would've seent he human race extinct within a few generations, and two, we have hard physical evidence showing the evolution of man.

On every level, in everything, the bible is a complete and utter Fail. It therefor has no authority, and certainly no credibility when claiming your god is the one and only and the creator of all things.

 

[Romeo Corbes]

Yes, the time is near. Why did I say that? Because God has poured 5 bowls of wrath,out of the 7, unto mankind. This was relayed to us by the Comforter through his bride. (Rev. 19-7-9. It will happen in our life time.

 

[Godobeyer]

On another forum that I frequent(non-religious) there was a discussion going on about the current events in the middle east,particularily regarding Israel. Anyway,quite a few of the posters believe this is end times prophecy manifesting itself. My question is this-Do the current events really correspond with end times prophecy as laid out in the Bible? I don't really care if you believe it's true or not, but if you have a good knowledge of the Bible and it's end times prophecy I'd like to hear from you.
As far as I can see, Christians since the time of Christ have believed that the end is near. Is there any reason to think that the current events are more indicative of end times than any other time in history? It's been a while since I read the Bible,but from what I recall there are still many things left undone for the prophecies to be considered fulfilled. I think sometimes people see doom and gloom around them and think it's unprecedented and must therefore indicate some sort of impending apocalypse,but so far I'm not convinced.

Yes ,The end is near , because majority (most) of minor the signs of the last day are already came .

[youtube]HTxZLB7qTS8[/youtube]
YouTube - 15 - Signs of the Last Day - The Proof That Islam Is The Truth - Abdur-Raheem Green

 

[England my lionheart]

The end is near , because most of minor the signs of the last day are already came .

[youtube]HTxZLB7qTS8[/youtube]
YouTube - 15 - Signs of the Last Day - The Proof That Islam Is The Truth - Abdur-Raheem Green

Abdur Raheem Green,a star of Peace TV,anyone who works alongside the ilustrious Zakir Naik must be right eh ,i thought the opening line was good though,Prophet Muhammeds death 1400 years ago was a sign of the end times so it must be soon

 

[Godobeyer]

Abdur Raheem Green,a star of Peace TV,anyone who works alongside the ilustrious Zakir Naik must be right eh ,i thought the opening line was good though,Prophet Muhammeds death 1400 years ago was a sign of the end times so it must be soon

You always critic Zakir Naik , but you did not critic his proofs (what he talking about) , because you stop there || , you don't have any argument , you just talking without proves or critic the contains , you need to critic the contains that present by these persons,,, but i know you could not because it's very hard to critic the truth .
I guess you are using this forum as chat room .

 

[England my lionheart]

You always critic Zakir Naik , but you did not critic his proofs (what he talking about) , because you stop there || , you don't have any argument , you just talking without proves or critic the contains , you need to critic the contains that present by these persons,,, but i know you could not because it's very hard to critic the truth .
I guess you are using this forum as chat room .

I hope you can understand why i critic Naik and Deedat,the topics you have posted have been posted many times and they always go the same way,circular reasoning,goal post moving,it invites criticism and redicule because they are wrong,sciencein the Qur'an,Mountains as Pegs etc etc presented as facts when at best they are matters of faith.

 

[Godobeyer]

I hope you can understand why i critic Naik and Deedat,the topics you have posted have been posted many times and they always go the same way,circular reasoning,goal post moving,it invites criticism and redicule because they are wrong,sciencein the Qur'an,Mountains as Pegs etc etc presented as facts when at best they are matters of faith.

I repeat , you did not critic their contain , i mean you did not critic what they said ,

i will give you an exmeple :
if i suppose i critic you i would said "England my lionheart" is redicule because he is wrong ," some one ask me where/why he is wrong ,
i would answer him , he is wrong becaue he is wrong enough , and not correct , and false .....etc

(notice in my eg , i did not critic your contain) i just critic you without reason ,
this is exactly what you did with Deedat and Naik , you just critic them without giving a proof .