The end of the Fossil Fuel era is upon us so what are we going to do next-?

[Guy Threepwood]

Say what? Energy bills and the cost of living were ridiculously extortionate long before green subsidies showed up.

It hasn't hit us as hard as many places, Spain's electricity bills are among the highest in Europe, having risen 60 percent between 2006 and 2012- having massive green subsidies, and that still doesn't keep up with the debt those subsidies are creating.


But it's not just green industry subsidies, we've been paying for environmental bans, fines, regulations for decades.

We have millions of years of solar energy, already collected and stored in vast quantities beneath our feet. It's free market value would be a tiny fraction of what we pay for it.

 

[Valjean]

It hasn't hit us as hard as many places, Spain's electricity bills are among the highest in Europe, having risen 60 percent between 2006 and 2012- having massive green subsidies, and that still doesn't keep up with the debt those subsidies are creating.


But it's not just green industry subsidies, we've been paying for environmental bans, fines, regulations for decades.

We have millions of years of solar energy, already collected and stored in vast quantities beneath our feet. It's free market value would be a tiny fraction of what we pay for it.

Are you including externalities in that free market value?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Are you including externalities in that free market value?

No, good point, if you include the enhanced growth and drought resistance of plants that is achieved by the recycling of CO2 into the atmos, it pays for itself!

Also technically any warming that might be caused, in turn decreases the amount of energy needed for heating (which is vastly higher than energy required for cooling)
though the amount of heat trapped in the troposphere by 1 or 2 extra molecules of CO2 in 10000 of air, has an infinitesimal effect on temps at the surface

i.e. even if fossil fuel wasn't supporting standards of living worldwide, simply burning it would still have a worthwhile environmental benefit

 

[Valjean]

No, good point, if you include the enhanced growth and drought resistance of plants that is achieved by the recycling of CO2 into the atmos, it pays for itself!

Also technically any warming that might be caused, in turn decreases the amount of energy needed for heating (which is vastly higher than energy required for cooling)
though the amount of heat trapped in the troposphere by 1 or 2 extra molecules of CO2 in 10000 of air, has an infinitesimal effect on temps at the surface

i.e. even if fossil fuel wasn't supporting standards of living worldwide, simply burning it would still have a worthwhile environmental benefit

You're ignoring the ecological impact of fossil fuel generated greenhouse gasses, to say nothing of the health problems from particulates, heavy metals, acid rain, &c. Stimulating plant growth won't cut it.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

You're ignoring the ecological impact of fossil fuel generated greenhouse gasses, to say nothing of the health problems from particulates, heavy metals, acid rain, &c. Stimulating plant growth won't cut it.

Its called photosynthesis, significantly enhanced by CO2 no government funded computer sims required to demonstrate this, its an utterly unambiguous direct, testable, repeatable scientific observation

any speculations on negative impacts of a couple extra molecules CO2 in 10000 of air..., rely 100% on hypothetical computer simulated feedback loops, which have failed to demonstrate any predictive ability whatsoever.



Particulates yes, depending on what they are- I think we do have some real environmental concerns to deal with, global warming ain't one of them, it's an extremely lucrative distraction

 

[metis]

any speculations on negative impacts of a couple extra molecules CO2 in 10000 of air..., rely 100% on hypothetical computer simulated feedback loops, which have failed to demonstrate any predictive ability whatsoever.

So, do you think that almost all these scientists worldwide that specialize in studying climate are ignorant, or almost all dishonest, or do you think it's both?

 

[Thief]

did anyone mention?...switch grass

 

[metis]

did anyone mention?...switch grass

Hey, I couldn't care less what you smoke.

 

[Thief]

Hey, I couldn't care less what you smoke.

no silly....

this item looks like any run of 'weed' you might see as you burn your gasoline rolling down the highway
in your fossil fuel, air sucking taxation vehicle.

planted by the acre.....1300gals of fuel
such is switch grass

the problem is farm land sufficient to fuel what we Americans do
like sitting in traffic for hours going to work in congested freeways

I have heard....it takes 2hrs to go 5miles....in Chicago

 

[Guy Threepwood]

no silly....

this item looks like any run of 'weed' you might see as you burn your gasoline rolling down the highway
in your fossil fuel, air sucking taxation vehicle.

planted by the acre.....1300gals of fuel
such is switch grass

the problem is farm land sufficient to fuel what we Americans do
like sitting in traffic for hours going to work in congested freeways

I have heard....it takes 2hrs to go 5miles....in Chicago

I used to have a 15 mile commute to the loop ( downtown Chicago) which often took 2 hours one way, sometimes 3 coming back on a Friday night.

Not a productive use of time, but I usually enjoyed it- probably the best alone/ relaxing time I ever got- I even took detours to make it longer sometimes!

 

[metis]

no silly....

this item looks like any run of 'weed' you might see as you burn your gasoline rolling down the highway
in your fossil fuel, air sucking taxation vehicle.

planted by the acre.....1300gals of fuel
such is switch grass

the problem is farm land sufficient to fuel what we Americans do
like sitting in traffic for hours going to work in congested freeways

I have heard....it takes 2hrs to go 5miles....in Chicago

I planted some switch grass in my backyard a couple of decades ago, but it eventually died. Heck, if I had known I coulda put it into my gas tank, I woulda, but how could I have put it all in that little hole that goes into the tank? I'm so confused.

 

[Thief]

I used to have a 15 mile commute to the loop ( downtown Chicago) which often took 2 hours one way, sometimes 3 coming back on a Friday night.

Not a productive use of time, but I usually enjoyed it- probably the best alone/ relaxing time I ever got- I even took detours to make it longer sometimes!

what if everyone rode bicycles for fifteen miles?

oh yeah.....the board room would smell different....

 

[metis]

I have heard....it takes 2hrs to go 5miles....in Chicago

Probably. Our youngest daughter lived there for three years and we used to visit her regularly, and I finally had enough with driving there and in it, so I told her we're flying in from now on and she's picking us up at the airport.

Compared to driving in Chicago, here in the Detroit area it feels like we're the Jetsons.

 

[Thief]

Probably. Our youngest daughter lived there for three years and we used to visit her regularly, and I finally had enough with driving there and in it, so I told her we're flying in from now on and she's picking us up at the airport.

Compared to driving in Chicago, here in the Detroit area it feels like we're the Jetsons.

I work in one small town and drive home on the weekend....110miles.....one way
it takes less than two hours

i cannot imagine sitting in a vehicle for two hrs to cover 15miles

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I work in one small town and drive home on the weekend....110miles.....one way
it takes less than two hours

i cannot imagine sitting in a vehicle for two hrs to cover 15miles

Nice, yes driving in the country is definitely more pleasant, and so are the drivers!

 

[metis]

I work in one small town and drive home on the weekend....110miles.....one way
it takes less than two hours

i cannot imagine sitting in a vehicle for two hrs to cover 15miles

We also have a place in da U.P. whereas we live from May through September, and it's a lot like you say above. Even though the Detroit area is relatively easy to get around, it's nuts compared to our place up north, and it takes me a bit to adjust to the traffic.

 

[Thief]

if the current scheme of fossil fuel use should fail....
I would have to quit my job for that one last trip home
never to return to labor

I suspect a size-able portion of our economy (workers) will do likewise

got switch grass?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

You're ignoring the ecological impact of fossil fuel generated greenhouse gasses, to say nothing of the health problems from particulates, heavy metals, acid rain, &c. Stimulating plant growth won't cut it.

Don't forget increasing ocean acidity.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Don't forget increasing ocean acidity.

oceans are alkaline, what else do they have you afraid of?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

oceans are alkaline, what else do they have you afraid of?

They are indeed. However the result of oceanic CO2-absorption is an increase in ocean acidity. Admittedly, yes, this is projected to occur over a long period of time - this link from the Australian Government should clue people in on how long this is projected to take.