the ethics of child brides -- modern slavery

[IndigoChild5559]

I was reading yesterday about a 14 year old indigenous girl who was sold for marriage down in Mexico. She had the audacity to run away before the ceremony, and the local law enforcement hunted her down and threw her in jail. According to the article, although this is illegal by federal law, it is still common place out in the country among the poor.

What is the fate of these girls? They are expected to take on the chores of the home. It's essentially a monetary deal for someone from whom one can get sex and labor. IOW this is slavery.

In recent years women have made progress against many of the old patriarchal abuses that oppressed us. But child marriage is something that is still quite common in the word.

And lest we think that it is different in the enlightened West, most Western countries and states allow for child marraige if the parents consent to it (read push it). Men who would be thrown into jail for statutory rape if they have sex with these girls are given the green light to the same behavior if they marry her. And the child who we concede is not old enough to consent to sex with an adult male is irrationally considered mature enough to consent to a lifelong committed relationship involving sex, children, etc. It makes no sense.

Folks, I shouldn't need to say this, but women are human beings too with all the rights that human beings have. Men would never be treated this way.

 

[Lain]

I was reading yesterday about a 14 year old indigenous girl who was sold for marriage down in Mexico. She had the audacity to run away before the ceremony, and the local law enforcement hunted her down and threw her in jail. According to the article, although this is illegal by federal law, it is still common place out in the country among the poor.

What is the fate of these girls? They are expected to take on the chores of the home. It's essentially a monetary deal for someone from whom one can get sex and labor. IOW this is slavery.

In recent years women have made progress against many of the old patriarchal abuses that oppressed us. But child marriage is something that is still quite common in the word.

And lest we think that it is different in the enlightened West, most Western countries and states allow for child marraige if the parents consent to it (read push it). Men who would be thrown into jail for statutory rape if they have sex with these girls are given the green light to the same behavior if they marry her. And the child who we concede is not old enough to consent to sex with an adult male is irrationally considered mature enough to consent to a lifelong committed relationship involving sex, children, etc. It makes no sense.

Folks, I shouldn't need to say this, but women are human beings too with all the rights that human beings have. Men would never be treated this way.

Indeed forcing someone to marry (which invalidates a marriage, so it really is just forcing a fornication on them) is unjust, although I would not consider all sub-18 or whatever age a state has selected marriages to be unjust. In my opinion at least.

 

[Vinayaka]

There is a lot of variation by culture with this. I would hesitate to make generalisations based on one's own world or religious view. In the western culture, marriage is considered as a time to be sexually active. In some cultures, what we call betrothal is also called marriage. So a pair of ten-year-olds can be married off (betrothal) but not consummate the marriage until much later.

It can also be seen as 'okay' for a 14 year old kid to be 'playing around' but not married. Any junior high school teacher knows this, certainly high school. The discrepancy, for whatever reason that's developed is that one can be ready to be sexually active, but not ready for marriage.

I'm not into judging another culture unless a detailed are clearly seen. That said, there is certainly abundant abusing around.

 

[Nakosis]

I was reading yesterday about a 14 year old indigenous girl who was sold for marriage down in Mexico. She had the audacity to run away before the ceremony, and the local law enforcement hunted her down and threw her in jail. According to the article, although this is illegal by federal law, it is still common place out in the country among the poor.

What is the fate of these girls? They are expected to take on the chores of the home. It's essentially a monetary deal for someone from whom one can get sex and labor. IOW this is slavery.

In recent years women have made progress against many of the old patriarchal abuses that oppressed us. But child marriage is something that is still quite common in the word.

And lest we think that it is different in the enlightened West, most Western countries and states allow for child marraige if the parents consent to it (read push it). Men who would be thrown into jail for statutory rape if they have sex with these girls are given the green light to the same behavior if they marry her. And the child who we concede is not old enough to consent to sex with an adult male is irrationally considered mature enough to consent to a lifelong committed relationship involving sex, children, etc. It makes no sense.

Folks, I shouldn't need to say this, but women are human beings too with all the rights that human beings have. Men would never be treated this way.

I don't think someone should be obligated to a marriage contract unless they have the legal authority to consent to it.

 

[sun rise]

women are human beings too with all the rights that human beings have.

And it's way way WAY past the time for that to be universally honored and enforced when necessary.

 

[Shadow11]

You have to wonder about a man who wants to marry a child especially an older one - if your sexually attracted to children they are a pedophile and likely will be raping children the rest of their lives.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

What a strange thread: ethics of child brides and slavery? As the OP states, "women are human beings too with all the rights that human beings have. Men would never be treated this way."

Why not? Why should condone females being forced into conjugal relationships, and not males? Why allow a man to force a young girl to sleep with him, and then be offended when a woman forces a young boy to sleep with her?

As far as I am aware (as a Humanist) humans come in a couple of sexes (with variations), any number of physical, linguistic, religious variations -- but each and every one is in my view a human with the right, when they reach majority, to decide how they wish to live, and before they reach majority, to the protection of their parents, guardians, or in the absence of those, the state.

No exceptions. Every exception is deeply unethical.

 

[epronovost]

If this can help inform the conversation, the UN considers child marriage as a form of slavery. 5 victim out of 6 is a girl. The overwhelming majority of boys forced into marriage also marry a teenage bride. While a majority of teenage bride marry adult men. Poverty, lack of access to education, sexist culture and religious fundamentalism are the main factors of risks for such a practice.

 

[Revoltingest]

Folks, I shouldn't need to say this, but women are human beings too with all the rights that human beings have. Men would never be treated this way.

Life ain't always a bowl of cherries for us guys either.
You never had to consider leaving the country to
avoid being forced to kill commies in Vietnam.
What's wrong is wrong...regardless of gender.

 

[Leahpolitan_icecream]

Life ain't always a bowl of cherries for us guys either.
You never had to consider leaving the country to
avoid being forced to kill commies in Vietnam.
What's wrong is wrong...regardless of gender.

It is clear as day that women have life worse under men all the time

Men feel an instatiable need to pipe up when womens issues are spoken of to talk about their problems and say they have it bad too, go fix them

 

[JustGeorge]

It is clear as day that women have life worse under men all the time

Men feel an instatiable need to pipe up when womens issues are spoken of to talk about their problems and say they have it bad too, go fix them

I'm a woman.

If a drunken mostly nude woman tries to get into my car and claim I stole her phone(this happened to my husband), no one will likely suspect me of rape. Not so if I was male...

I'm not saying women don't have their own problems, and honestly, more widespread problems, as some areas of the world have high numbers of women who are treated like garbage. However, I don't understand why we have to lament how bad our issues are while flipping men in general the bird, like they're all responsible for it. In my experience, women can oppress other women, too.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is clear as day that women have life worse under men all the time

Men feel an instatiable need to pipe up when womens issues are spoken of to talk about their problems and say they have it bad too, go fix them

Where you see groups, I see individuals, ie, it
all depends upon which women & which men
under which circumstances.
Guys who died after being drafted into a useless
war they opposed are worse off than women who
had the liberty to continue their lives as they wished.
Oh, another problem...20 times as many men are
killed by cops here compared to women.

If you want to be always the victim, & make men
always the perps, you can expect objection to that
prejudice.

 

[Leahpolitan_icecream]

I'm a woman.

If a drunken mostly nude woman tries to get into my car and claim I stole her phone(this happened to my husband), no one will likely suspect me of rape. Not so if I was male...

I'm not saying women don't have their own problems, and honestly, more widespread problems, as some areas of the world have high numbers of women who are treated like garbage. However, I don't understand why we have to lament how bad our issues are while flipping men in general the bird, like they're all responsible for it. In my experience, women can oppress other women, too.

People suspect men more because they are usually right about them, your husband is fine but it's not often

Most good men are not really good just tolerable because the average is bad

It is not about lament, and women begin to oppress other women originally and firstly due to men it is a survival tactic

Every one of them I ever saw is responsible for it

 

[Revoltingest]

People suspect men more because they are usually right about them, your husband is fine but it's not often...

And black men are the worst.
If women weren't so slutty, they wouldn't have such trouble.

Blaming individuals for a group they're assigned to is fun, eh.

 

[Leahpolitan_icecream]

Where you see groups, I see individuals, ie, it
all depends upon which women & which men
under which circumstances.
Guys who died after being drafted into a useless
war they opposed are worse off than women who
had the liberty to continue their lives as they wished.
Oh, another problem...20 times as many men are
killed by cops here compared to women.

If you want to be always the victim, & make men
always the perps, you can expect objection to that
prejudice.

They fight wars because of violence
They keep women out of them because they saw they are weak and treat them like children
They die by police because of violence

These are self made problems, they **** on the bed now lie in it, but they don't they also drag everyone else into it

There should be no draft

 

[Revoltingest]

They fight wars because of violence
They keep women out of them because they saw they are weak and treat them like children
They die by police because of violence

These are self made problems, they **** on the bed now lie in it, but they don't they also drag everyone else into it

There should be no draft

It seems that you blame all men for violence endured.
Must be nice to be female...no responsibility for any wrongs.

 

[JustGeorge]

People suspect men more because they are usually right about them, your husband is fine but it's not often

Most good men are not really good just tolerable because the average is bad

It is not about lament, and women begin to oppress other women originally and firstly due to men it is a survival tactic

Every one of them I ever saw is responsible for it

I disagree. I have had the pleasure of sharing my life with many men, in all different relationships(husband, sons, friends, uncles, cousins... hell, I'll even recognize Dad as a pretty upstanding guy, even if we had a frustrating past).

Dirtbags come in both genders, and while I have met dirtbag men, I've met a lot of dirtbag women, too.

 

[Lain]

They fight wars because of violence
They keep women out of them because they saw they are weak and treat them like children
They die by police because of violence

These are self made problems, they **** on the bed now lie in it, but they don't they also drag everyone else into it

There should be no draft

Are you a radfem? That is the only ideology (that I know of) in which these statements actually make any sense.

 

[epronovost]

It seems that you blame all men for violence endured.

To be fair though, the draft, the Vietnam war were all male led policies. They are choices of men that impact negatively and tragically other men. Such is not the case for child marriage which overwhelmingly impacts girls and overwhelmingly under the dictates of men. Forced marriage is overwhelmingly gender based violence while wars, in general, are not (though some practice in wars like the systematic massacres of boys and civilian young men in some armed conflict or mass rapes are).

Men are, sadly, overwhelmingly responsible for violence that befall other men (and women). While women do sometime direct violence toward one another or men, it's only exceptionally institutional violence (right there I could not name you a case of institutional violence directed by women against men or other women though there is probably at least one instance of such a thing). In terms of personal/incidental violence, men are responsible for about 90% of murders (their main victim being other men), grievous assault (again, men are mostly the victims of such acts too) and it's even worst for rapes (where, uniquely, women and children are the main victims). Violent professions are dominated by men and men within those profession have a significantly higher tendency to use force (rightfully or not) than the minority of women who do practice them too. If you really want to have a conversation on violence, you will inevitably have to address the issue of masculinity as violence as a social phenomenon is overwhelmingly masculine with mostly masculine victims. Though that's a much broader subject than forced marriage though there are indeed male victims of such crimes.

 

[Harel13]

I'm lost on the point of this thread. What is it that you want to debate?