The evidence supporting "gender affirming care" is of very low reliability

[Heyo]

"it was generally thought there was no such thing as a female Norse warrior beforehand. It's possible this individual may have seen themselves as more of a man than a woman"

Certainly. However the skeleton told the story.

I know what your point was. That person probably lived as a man, was seen as a man, fought with the warriors, etc etc.
Everyone thought that until the skeleton told the story.

That Christianity influenced dogma of "no female warriors" in archaeology and history hasn't done the trades any good. Even now you perpetuate it by assuming that the warrior was trans which seems more acceptable than going against the dogma.
The Norse woman isn't the only one, we have examples from every culture we cared to look into and there are probably many more who haven't been DNA tested.
The simple truth is that the dogma is wrong. Female warriors aren't even that rare that it would have explained the dogma. Where ever we look without the bias, we find about 5% females.
/tangent

 

[Guitar's Cry]

However when it's a skeleton, gender is no longer relevant... females become males again via the skeleton.

You aren't wrong; a scientist is going to classify the skeleton according to what evidence there is to study.

But the skeleton is not the person. In the same way a scientist studying a female wolf isn't going to refer to the animal as a "woman," the scientist cannot classify a skeleton with the sexual characteristics of a female as "woman," where that term is more useful to describe the individual beyond what a skeleton can offer.

 

[Revoltingest]

Gender affirming care saved my eldest sibling's life.
The evidence shows that GAC considerably reduces suicidality and depression.

The biggest threat to trans people is the marginalization and demonization of their community, such as your varied anti-trans contributions I've seen in the last week or so since joining this forum.

It's rather convenient that those who actively seek to ostracize the trans community are the most concerned about their medical treatment.

Broadly speaking about the issue & many threads....
The field is new & burgeoning.
Trial & error abounds. There's much research to do.
The errors convince some that it shouldn't be done.
Most don't come out & say it. Instead, they present
info & arguments casting it in a negative light.
Your approach of countering negativity with positive
results is most useful.

 

[icehorse]

Broadly speaking about the issue & many threads....
The field is new & burgeoning.
Trial & error abounds. There's much research to do.
The errors convince some that it shouldn't be done.
Most don't come out & say it. Instead, they present
info & arguments casting it in a negative light.
Your approach of countering negativity with positive
results is most useful.

The way medicine is SUPPOSED to work, is that you test new protocols, which includes ALWAYS using control groups, before you make these new protocols available to the public.

The Dutch failed to do that. That wasn't just an "error", ffs.

As for using "positive results", really? Without a control group how can you say this is a scientific positive result? And since when has medicine been conducted using anecdotal evidence.

@libre - I'm happy that your family had a good result, that's sincere. But without control groups, you simply cannot know WHY you got those results.

 

[Revoltingest]

The way medicine is SUPPOSED to work, is that you test new protocols, which includes ALWAYS using control groups, before you make these new protocols available to the public.

Medicine often doesn't work they way you say
it's supposed to. Many procedures aren't evidence
based, eg...
Study Suggests Common Knee Surgery's Effect Is Purely Placebo
Analysis might happen later, after procedures
have been long in use.
It's an imperfect method, but it does lead to
progress sometimes.

 

[We Never Know]

Medicine often doesn't work they way you say
it's supposed to. Many procedures aren't evidence
based, eg...
Study Suggests Common Knee Surgery's Effect Is Purely Placebo
Analysis might happen later, after procedures
have been long in use.
It's an imperfect method, but it does lead to
progress sometimes.

The study you linked doesn't say if any, all or none had physical therapy after the laparoscopic surgery.
Usually it's a standard.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I know what your point was. That person probably lived as a man, was seen as a man, fought with the warriors, etc etc.
Everyone thought that until the skeleton told the story.

My point is that the skeleton doesn't tell the whole story alone. If we had found just the skeleton, all we would know is they were biologically female but it doesn't tell you who they were in life, which is at least just as important.

 

[We Never Know]

My point is that the skeleton doesn't tell the whole story alone. If we had found just the skeleton, all we would know is they were biologically female but it doesn't tell you who they were in life, which is at least just as important.

As I said... 'That person probably lived as a man, was seen as a man, fought with the warriors, etc etc.' ... Which is who they were in life.

 

[fantome profane]

As I said... 'That person probably lived as a man, was seen as a man, fought with the warriors, etc etc.' ... Which is who they were in life.

But what was their favourite colour?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"needed for clarity"

I was being clear.

No, you wasn't.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Your personal attacks are simply untrue. Please stop.

Did you even scan the links I provided? Are you aware that two of those links quote the head of GD care in Finland? I think she's more of an authority than you are. If you want to provide links newer than mine, I remain open to reading them.

Why provide when you have an established history of outright dismissal and denial?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But what was their favourite colour?

Blue! No, yellow!

 

[icehorse]

Why provide when you have an established history of outright dismissal and denial?

Project much?

Just for giggles, how about we stick to THIS thread?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Project much?

No, you dismiss others so much on the subject you even dismiss women who disagree with you and call them misogynist. You do it si much that find one item to support your crusade that when I point out I can bring up more sources than you want to focus on me mot having the same level of professional experience as the one person you brought up. Which is absolutely absurd and pathetic to hold me to that but not yoi because I do have more academic amd professional (and personal) experience with the subject than you'll ever have.

Just for giggles, how about we stick to THIS thread?

I'll stick to being pragmatic and continue considering your overall posting history regarding the subject.

 

[icehorse]

No, you dismiss others so much on the subject you even dismiss women who disagree with you and call them misogynist. You do it si much that find one item to support your crusade that when I point out I can bring up more sources than you want to focus on me mot having the same level of professional experience as the one person you brought up. Which is absolutely absurd and pathetic to hold me to that but not yoi because I do have more academic amd professional (and personal) experience with the subject than you'll ever have.

I'll stick to being pragmatic and continue considering your overall posting history regarding the subject.

Which you continue to misrepresent. And which I'm sure you will continue to misrepresent.

So THIS thread is about gender affirming care for kids. That's ALL it's about.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Which you continue to misrepresent. And which I'm sure you will continue to misrepresent.

So THIS thread is about gender affirming care for kids. That's ALL it's about.

Is that why you tried to dismiss me as not having equal experience as the person you cited?

 

[SkepticThinker]

A little reality that I read last week....

Take 50 women and 50 men and put them on a deserted island. Go back in a 100 years and there will be a thriving population.

Take 50 transwomen and 50 men and put them on a deserted island. Go back in a 100 years and there will be 100 male skeletons.

What the .... ??

 

[SkepticThinker]

"it was generally thought there was no such thing as a female Norse warrior beforehand. It's possible this individual may have seen themselves as more of a man than a woman"

Certainly. However the skeleton told the story.

Not the full story though, right?

 

[fantome profane]

A little reality that I read last week....

Take 50 women and 50 men and put them on a deserted island. Go back in a 100 years and there will be a thriving population.

Take 50 transwomen and 50 men and put them on a deserted island. Go back in a 100 years and there will be 100 male skeletons.

In either case you would be guilty of 100 counts of kidnapping and illegal imprisonment.



(and btw, it is extremely unlikely that you could find a deserted island that is capable of sustaining human life at all. There are still many deserted islands in the world, but they are deserted for a reason.)

 

[icehorse]

Two points:

1 - It's amazing how a simple thought experiment (100 skeletons) can be bent out of shape
2 - How does this tie back to weak evidence for gender affirming care?