The Exclusivity of Christianity

[Colt]

There may be overlap, but why is that meaningful? It's the differences between the two that matter. It is humanism that has shaped Western Christianity over the centuries since the Enlightenment and made the differences narrower. Today, Western Christians prefer democracy to the biblical model of government, often accept the sciences and things such as church-state separation, and recognize that slavery is immoral. They have also stopped hanging witches and conducting inquisitions. They didn't get that from their Bibles. The fact that the ancients decided that murder and theft were immoral does not make those moral systems of value today except perhaps from a historical perspective as examples of where we were compared to where we are.

A recurring theme in our discussions is you seeing value where I don't. My problem with your claim is that you don't explain what that value is except in broad, general terms that also don't actually describe the value, either. I say that I have not benefitted from myths and find no value in modern or ancient religious moral systems simply because of their method for deciding such things is received morals, which leaves them stuck in the past until a rational ethicists explains why such ideas are irrational, unkind, and how and why they can be improved.



I don't see a problem with my approach. We did something similar in the sciences, tossing out the failed predecessors of science such as creationism, astrology, and alchemy. They're based in failed principles as are received morals. My moral values don't draw from any religion or any other external source. They are all endogenous, all the result of applying reason to a compelling utilitarian moral intuition, just as all of science results from tossing out failed systems based in false beliefs believed by faith and starting from scratch. I did not build on the Christian system.



I'd say that it's like saying that now that I'm no longer a child and that therefore, childish thinking is no longer appropriate, which is why I updated it. And if I teach someone younger than me, I will not teach them what my childish mind mistakenly thought, although had I written those thoughts down as a child, somebody might value them as sage advice like they do scripture written in man's cultural infancy.



I don't find wisdom in religion or scripture. This is another area where I'm advised not to throw out the baby with the bath water, but then ask, "What baby?" and get nothing that sounds like it should be salvaged from religion after leaving it. I threw it all out a few decades back, and every change there was for the better. Nothing got worse and caused me to rethink my choices or reclaim something from religion that I had mistakenly deemed valueless. Au contraire. There's no there there, at least not for me nor millions of others who have learned to love outside of religion, although some give lip service to religion anyway, but also, cannot be specific about what's valuable there or in what way it is of value.

Incidentally, I attended a wedding at a Baptist church yesterday and heard a sermon. I'm sorry, but what a waste of time. The pastor said absolutely nothing worth hearing that one needs a Bible for. All of this nonsense about we should love one another because God loved us first, about marriage being a religious covenant and a creation of god, who is obviously real given how many cultures have some variation of marriage (as do many animal species). The couple were in their seventies, both long-time veterans of successful marriages that ended with a death, and this guy is telling the couple and the room about how to be successfully married, but it involved gods.

I'm sorry, but I see no value there, either. I wouldn't want that man alone with my children at all much less seek his counsel. I heard what he believes. It's not wisdom just because he's older. Unsurprisingly given his occupation, he defined love as the willingness to die for another. That's not even close to my definition, and it's not likely to be required of anybody who loves, including everybody in that room. I wouldn't die for my dogs, but I do love them, meaning that I protect them and think about what they need and like, sacrifice resources such as time and money on their behalf, and grieve their deaths.



You don't know that. You can't. If you could, I could. But none of us has unique sense organs or neural circuits, and therefore no privileged window on reality. Nobody has access to that knowledge, although many hold beliefs fervently that they call knowledge but cannot demonstrate to be correct - a deal breaker for the empiricist, who doesn't use such words in those ways.

If you ever receive the gift of the spirit birth, the birth of faith, then you will know! You will also humbly concede that “knowing” is inexplicable!

 

[F1fan]

If you ever receive the gift of the spirit birth, the birth of faith, then you will know!

I keep asking Christians who claim this sort of thing how they discern an actual spiritual experience from an imagined one. I don't get any answers that indicate there's any such effort made.

You will also humbly concede that “knowing” is inexplicable!

Yet Christians claim to know many things they can't explain how they actually know.

 

[CG Didymus]

I keep asking Christians who claim this sort of thing how they discern an actual spiritual experience from an imagined one. I don't get any answers that indicate there's any such effort made.

I know Christians that say they have felt the hand of God or heard God speaking to them or felt the Holy Spirit. Then there's those Christians that speak in tongues and get prophetic messages. Then there's Catholic Christians that have visions of Mary. But then there's Baha'is I know that have seen visions of Abdul Baha' and then there's Native people that have seen visions and have had spirit animals talk to them.

I can believe that to them, it was real. But it's funny how each sees what they expect to see or see a vision of someone that fits their beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, it has historical fact like any other religion, but the claims and beliefs Baha'i have don't have any more fact than any other religion. Baha'i rely on faith just as heavily as anyone else.

That's true.

 

[rational experiences]

How you know as humans alive living. To be truthfully aware.

All historic grown adults are always before you.

From origin bio form now human adults body are skeletal dusts. No theory single says legality.

I'm innocent I'm a baby...I'm not allowed to think for myself. Taught.

Advised.

I'm Indoctrinarted by continued same minded same reborn human DNA owners...who don't change their minds ever.

Even after life was nearly twice destroyed by humans science and technology.

Destroyer warnings.

Basic self aware human can ignore a huge list of the forced indoctrinations.

Use a few basic natural humans advices to say all human theists are lying.

As there is no theory about why we exist.

Human sex. We are all babies as we are returned human origin parents consciousness. Reliving in a babies human body our experience only that their consciousness had never experienced.

So we learn. Most dont as you keep being reborn the same DNA.

Sacrificed human babies learn. We aren't reborn same self again and again.

How I learnt. Why I learnt.

Basic human living advised condition not indoctrinated.

So if I ask myself how do you teach Indoctrinated theists. It's impossible.

Plenty of different forced strategies used before. All proven failed.

Reason exact...life is still lived in its self abusive human chosen structures.

Status looking back evidence says man destroys his design. Which first began as his cities...civil..is a tion.

Claim I'm not thinking living as any nation at all. It's all about Incentive life style.

First claim of a human...the theist and designer.

Second choice new design..science technology invention reactions.

Destroys cities first science design.

Theist.

I never owned star mass. It's the UFO entry causes only...nuclear change explosions attack.

I copied it but held it. I overpowered God Satan myself. A reactor.

Then I decided like the star to nuke the life ground position a nation.

I have hence acted out what a star taught me.

Says Inventor man.

My god is earths nuclear.

I proved to.myself I'm as evil as a star.

Taught.

Conditions Moses..Muhammad..Jesus bahuallah etc...
I lived as I wasn't the nation point of impact.

Scientific human knowledge.

So in fact I lied about being the victim as I survived.

Impact position hadn't. Ignored theisms of a humans self superiority claim.

Self Idolating a Direct destroyer human self warning.

 

[rational experiences]

How you know as humans alive living. To be truthfully aware.

All historic grown adults are always before you.

From origin bio form now human adults body are skeletal dusts. No theory single says legality.

I'm innocent I'm a baby...I'm not allowed to think for myself. Taught.

Advised.

I'm Indoctrinarted by continued same minded same reborn human DNA owners...who don't change their minds ever.

Even after life was nearly twice destroyed by humans science and technology.

Destroyer warnings.

Basic self aware human can ignore a huge list of the forced indoctrinations.

Use a few basic natural humans advices to say all human theists are lying.

As there is no theory about why we exist.

Human sex. We are all babies as we are returned human origin parents consciousness. Reliving in a babies human body our experience only that their consciousness had never experienced.

So we learn. Most dont as you keep being reborn the same DNA.

Sacrificed human babies learn. We aren't reborn same self again and again.

How I learnt. Why I learnt.

Basic human living advised condition not indoctrinated.

So if I ask myself how do you teach Indoctrinated theists. It's impossible.

Plenty of different forced strategies used before. All proven failed.

Reason exact...life is still lived in its self abusive human chosen structures.

Status looking back evidence says man destroys his design. Which first began as his cities...civil..is a tion.

Claim I'm not thinking living as any nation at all. It's all about Incentive life style.

First claim of a human...the theist and designer.

Second choice new design..science technology invention reactions.

Destroys cities first science design.

Theist.

I never owned star mass. It's the UFO entry causes only...nuclear change explosions attack.

I copied it but held it. I overpowered God Satan myself. A reactor.

Then I decided like the star to nuke the life ground position a nation.

I have hence acted out what a star taught me.

Says Inventor man.

My god is earths nuclear.

I proved to.myself I'm as evil as a star.

Taught.

Conditions Moses..Muhammad..Jesus bahuallah etc...
I lived as I wasn't the nation point of impact.

Scientific human knowledge.

So in fact I lied about being the victim as I survived.

Impact position hadn't. Ignored theisms of a humans self superiority claim.

Self Idolating a Direct destroyer human self warning.

Baby life.

A brother and sister mutual equal.

Cannot be argued about as superiority.

Men do.

Human historic abuse was man's choice.

Men abuse men...but abused all women.

Not mutual not equal.

Self superiority man claim I'm your god and I'm the nation's father. Meaning just about his owned man's baby DNA position...country I live in life changed.

My cell life changed my mind changed. I'm a Survivor.

Superior claim...I survived...the nation DNA human life hit hadn't.

Reason of notification brain prickled gas burning and heated flame water. Heard voices saw visions a bio human chemical experience always.

As you aren't the changing heavens state.

Theist I first thought upon by my head the circle thesis. I gave it a number.

Theme circle around my head symbolic meaning.

Second head...I now am rich man own silver gold jewels as man king. I wear my status Around my head.

Third head....brain prickled life sacrificed as greedy lying man as technology lied. Crown of thorns inference.

To bleed.

My cell bio chemicals changed. Bio cell leeched out perfumes. Then my cell released bled unnaturally.

Brain prickled man's life Sacrificed living.

 

[rational experiences]

Baby life.

A brother and sister mutual equal.

Cannot be argued about as superiority.

Men do.

Human historic abuse was man's choice.

Men abuse men...but abused all women.

Not mutual not equal.

Self superiority man claim I'm your god and I'm the nation's father. Meaning just about his owned man's baby DNA position...country I live in life changed.

My cell life changed my mind changed. I'm a Survivor.

Superior claim...I survived...the nation DNA human life hit hadn't.

Reason of notification brain prickled gas burning and heated flame water. Heard voices saw visions a bio human chemical experience always.

As you aren't the changing heavens state.

Theist I first thought upon by my head the circle thesis. I gave it a number.

Theme circle around my head symbolic meaning.

Second head...I now am rich man own silver gold jewels as man king. I wear my status Around my head.

Third head....brain prickled life sacrificed as greedy lying man as technology lied. Crown of thorns inference.

To bleed.

My cell bio chemicals changed. Bio cell leeched out perfumes. Then my cell released bled unnaturally.

Brain prickled man's life Sacrificed living.

Objective blame everyone else.

Including my origin father now spiritually a heavenly message only.

My father did it to me.

Baby mans life...my brother did it to me as the adult...not my father. My claim non sexual man adult did it.

Father's man origin was brother to our mother sister.

Brother sister first.

Didn't do science says memory. Both virgins once only. As father mother.

Humans baby always a virgin you can't be anything else. Adult sex now can't claim virgin status of first.

Baby man as an adult theist of science lied.

Baby man said his own father had chosen science. Baby man adult himself.

Why he self idolated as he is to blame for all historic human chosen wrongs.

Wise men said God with space womb natural law can never be wrong as evolution is only cooling. And cooling keeps mass stable not reactive.

As volcanic flow isn't reactive it's a cause effect. What is hell as theoried by lying men.

Earthquakes man of science confessed I caused. By trying by pressure earth mass change to arise the mountain mass.

As I theoried upon natural history falsely claiming I'm copying laws change.

I said I'm the carpenter who built tectonic change. A confession in science.

As earth was stable mass with a Heated cold core. In Infinite space balanced with suns mass body losses.

Evolution in cooling.

Reactive mass shifting had stopped he said.

Men looking at fixed reacting bodies expect them to shift claiming it would fill up the hole. Claiming it hasn't shifted yet.

Earth the sun and its heavens in laws isn't expected to shift its mass.

 

[Colt]

I keep asking Christians who claim this sort of thing how they discern an actual spiritual experience from an imagined one. I don't get any answers that indicate there's any such effort made.


Yet Christians claim to know many things they can't explain how they actually know.

I would answer you the same way. The spirit birth is a grace gift which leaves one with an inexplicable ability for discernment.

 

[rational experiences]

In man's memory I heard the voice that said he would not listen to father. Spiritual aware advice for all men.

You read the bible advice and it is told man was self Idolating as his consciousness changed. Yet he continued to self idolate.

Proving he didn't listen to consciousness.

Science a self contradiction.

Man says I add forward.

Man doesn't move forward his age number stays the same. Owned.

He then subtracts by multiples.

So then he minuses what had not previously been removed. When he physically causes removal.

He can't remove his age.

He began as sperm. As he doesn't own the woman's ova body.

Man cannot return to sperm. He cannot become a minus state.

His baby he said holy as it created his adult self. Human life.

So did you baby man create your father?

No...he didn't.

Basic advice what spiritual lying is.

Not using consciousness. Each new life. Instead only using indoctrinations.

So new humans in new experiences input new conscious awareness.

Yet many of the content of an experience as a human are similar.

However they are adult men.

The actual advice asks why then is one man considered holier than another...different cultures...different nations?

The experience says they weren't.

 

[F1fan]

I would answer you the same way. The spirit birth is a grace gift which leaves one with an inexplicable ability for discernment.

That's an extraordinary claim. Where is the evidence that it's true, and not just something some Christians create in their minds?

 

[F1fan]

I know Christians that say they have felt the hand of God or heard God speaking to them or felt the Holy Spirit. Then there's those Christians that speak in tongues and get prophetic messages. Then there's Catholic Christians that have visions of Mary. But then there's Baha'is I know that have seen visions of Abdul Baha' and then there's Native people that have seen visions and have had spirit animals talk to them.

I can believe that to them, it was real. But it's funny how each sees what they expect to see or see a vision of someone that fits their beliefs.

The pentecostals that speak in tongues is an interesting example. How is it only those types of Christians do this and no others? The Occam's Razor answer is that believers adopt and mimic learned behavior in that sect. Why isn't it the "power of the Lord"? Well it's odd how God influences different groups in different ways if it's "one true God" as most Christians claim. So many things are exclusive to various Christian sects.

 

[Colt]

That's an extraordinary claim. Where is the evidence that it's true, and not just something some Christians create in their minds?

You would have to have the experience yourself, then you would understand.

 

[viole]

One Lord, One Faith, One God: The Exclusivity of Christianity​

Open your Bible to Ephesians 4. And we have been in Ephesians 4 for a month, I think, but we finally have arrived at verses 4, 5, and 6. And this is a very, very important moment to stop and consider a far-reaching reality that is clearly indicated here. Let me read Ephesians 4:4, 5, and 6. “There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.” Here is the singularity of Christianity. Seven times, you have the word “one” repeated. This is a declaration of the exclusivity of the true faith, the true religion.

There is only one body: the church; one Spirit: the Holy Spirit; one hope: that of heaven for those in Christ. There’s only one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God. That should make it abundantly clear that there are no others, no others. But it seems to have somehow escaped this generation of so-called Christians and even so-called evangelicals, because in a recent survey an inexcusable display of ignorance was manifest.

Sixty-six percent of American Christians say many religions lead to eternal life—that’s two out of three. Fifty-two percent of evangelicals say many religions can lead to eternal life. Forty-eight percent of evangelicals said that God accepts the worship of all religious people. Now, let me correct that. One hundred percent of true Christians say no other religion can save. One hundred percent of true evangelicals say no other religion can save. One hundred percent of evangelicals say God rejects all worship other than that which is consistent with His divine revelation in Christ.

How do we get to a place where people declare they are Christians and evangelicals, and basically don’t even understand the most foundational reality of what is true religion? How does this happen? On the face, you might say they lack instruction, and you would probably be right. But even deeper than that, I think they lack courage, because the reason people cave in to say that other religions can give eternal life is so that they don’t wind up offending other people—because that’s hard to deal with.

But on the face of it, it’s impossible that Christianity is true and other religions are true. This is the basic law of reason called the law of noncontradiction. Just from a rational standpoint, the law of noncontradiction is, “A cannot be non-A at the same time in the same way.” Let me spread that out over Christian theology: If Yahweh is the one and only living and true God, there is no other god. If the Bible is the one true revealed revelation of God, there is no other revelation. If the Son of God is Jesus, who is alone Lord and alone King, there is no other lord. If Jesus Christ is the only Savior from sin and eternal judgment, there is no other savior. If sinners can be saved only by the gospel of Jesus Christ, then they can’t be saved by any other means. If people can only escape hell by trusting in the person and work of Christ, they cannot escape hell by any other avenue. If sinners will be in hell forever if they reject Christ, there is no other way for them to escape. If the sole work that saves sinners is the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, then no other work can save sinners. If the gospel is the only saving truth and all other claims are lies, if there is only one true religion, then all others are false. If there is only one true God, who is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ—the triune God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit—then there is no other God. So you get the idea.

All of those things that I postulated for you are Bible claims. I was just giving you what the Bible says: one God, one divine revelation, one Lord, one Savior, one gospel, one means of escaping hell. That’s what the Bible claims, and it is essentially that that is its greatest offense. And because it is such an offense, people cave in, and rather than be faithful to that gospel, they come up with ridiculous things like, “You can get to heaven by any religion.” A lie from the devil. Deuteronomy 4:35 says, “The Lord, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” That’s the exclusivity of the true God. Deuteronomy 4:39, “The Lord, He is God in heaven [alone] and on the earth below; there is no other.” First Kings 8, verse 60, “The Lord is God; there is no one else.”

To continue reading:
One Lord, One Faith, One God: The Exclusivity of Christianity

(Continued on next post)

If I made up a religion, I would make sure it is absolutely exclusive.

So, I am not sure what your point is.

Ciao

- viole

 

[F1fan]

You would have to have the experience yourself, then you would understand.

Have you noticed that critical thinkers don't have these types of religious experiences? Let's note that many who claim to have "spiritual experiences" don't exhibit any special knowledge, nor even changed behavior that would suggest they have become enlightened in away they didn't cause themselves? Some of these folks even maintain irrational claims like creationism and racist attitudes. That is reason to be skeptical of what they believe.

If there was a reliable method for humans to have the sort of experience that some Christians claim, as you do, why aren't you presenting it?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If I made up a religion, I would make sure it is absolutely exclusive.

So, I am not sure what your point is.

Ciao

- viole

So luckily, God given Revelations are universal, for everyone.

Thus your reply has hinted as to why they do come exclusive.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Have you noticed that critical thinkers

A few use this line on this Forum.

Critical thinking does not include the attempt to eliminate God.

Regards Tony

 

[Colt]

Have you noticed that critical thinkers don't have these types of religious experiences? Let's note that many who claim to have "spiritual experiences" don't exhibit any special knowledge, nor even changed behavior that would suggest they have become enlightened in away they didn't cause themselves? Some of these folks even maintain irrational claims like creationism and racist attitudes. That is reason to be skeptical of what they believe.

If there was a reliable method for humans to have the sort of experience that some Christians claim, as you do, why aren't you presenting it?

I'm a critical thinker and I have been born again of the spirit. It radically changed my life. I know many others who have had the same experience.

Have you ever noticed that non-believers often have big egos, take themselves very seriously and look down on people of faith?

 

[Trailblazer]

If I made up a religion, I would make sure it is absolutely exclusive.

So, I am not sure what your point is.

Ciao

- viole

What do you mean by that?
Why would you make up a religion that is exclusive?

 

[viole]

So luckily, God given Revelations are universal, for everyone.

Thus your reply has hinted as to why they do come exclusive.

Regards Tony

Yes, and that is also why they survived so long, and are much more famous. A sort of evolutionary adaptation applied to metaphysical beliefs.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

What do you mean by that?
Why would you make up a religion that is exclusive?

Simple, so that nobody gets the idea that the competition is as good, too.

the first thing, or at the second at worst, I would write in my Scripture is: there is no other God apart from me.

Simple marketing.

Ciao

- viole