The Exclusivity of Christianity

[PearlSeeker]

Yes, God spoke through His Son Jesus in the last days.
Christians are still waiting for Jesus to return, so they believe we are still living in the last days.

The meaning of the word “latter-day” refers to scriptural accounts of apostles and prophets that spoke of the “last days.” The time in which we now live is the “latter-days”; the days (or dispensation of time) just before the Second Coming of the Lord.Apr 19, 2022

What does the word "Latter-days" mean? - TempioDiRoma.org​

Baha'is believe that Christ has already returned, in the Person of Baha'u'llah, and as such, we are no longer living in the last days, we are living in the Age of Fulfillment. It is called that because it is the age if the fulfillment of all the Bible prophecies.

"In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son."​

Their own Bible refutes that claim that Jesus spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah was the Spirit of Truth who brought the "many things" that people in the days of Jesus could not bear.

"Christian faith cannot accept "revelations" that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfilment, as is the case in certain nonChristian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such "revelations".​

Can't get much more exclusive than that, or more arrogant. Christians have to be the best. There can be no comradery between Baha'is and Christians because Christians 'believe' they have 'the only way' to God. It really is inexcusable that they dismiss 67% of the world population and believe they alone have the one true revelation from God.

This furthers my point about The Exclusivity of Christianity. I thought it was mainly Protestants who believe that way, but it s good to know that Catholics are also on board.

Yes, Christians are still waiting for Jesus to return. But Christ won't return as another person (incarnation):

[Jesus:] And then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. (Mk 13)

For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day. (Lk 17)
​

Regarding "many things" Jesus had to say:

Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries. (CCC 66)
​

This could hardly be the age of the fulfillment - the world is not filled with righteousness and peace, there is death, suffering...

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, you did leave out a word from the verse. There is one Lord, Jesus Christ. So, treating this as a more common noun, and not a divine name which you would object to ( see for example Matthew 9:38 ) there is only one mediator, only one eternal ruler. That's from the Christian perspective. And, if I understand, the purpose of this thread is to address the Christian scripture which presents Jesus as exclusive. So, various verses/passages are being brought to see if they indeed describe Jesus as the exclusive, only mediator. There can only be one Lord, means yes Jesus is exclusive.

There is one Lord, the Lord God.

Jesus Christ is not the Lord, God is the Lord. I am curious why you would not know that since you are Jewish and it is all throughout the Old Testament that God is the Lord. Christians try to commandeer the title Lord and apply it to Jesus, but Jesus is not the Lord, only God is the Lord. In the Bible, Jesus was referred to as Lord out of respect to His divine station, and Baha'u'llah was also called the Lord of Hosts for the same reason.

“The fear of God is the shield that defendeth His Cause, the buckler that enableth His people to attain to victory. It is a standard that no man can abase, a force that no power can rival. By its aid, and by the leave of Him Who is the Lord of Hosts, they that have drawn nigh unto God have been able to subdue and conquer the citadels of the hearts of men.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 272

 

[dybmh]

There is one Lord, the Lord God.

Jesus Christ is not the Lord, God is the Lord. I am curious why you would not know that since you are Jewish and it is all throughout the Old Testament that God is the Lord. Christians try to commandeer the title Lord and apply it to Jesus, but Jesus is not the Lord, only God is the Lord. In the Bible, Jesus was referred to as Lord out of respect to His divine station, and Baha'u'llah was also called the Lord of Hosts for the same reason.

“The fear of God is the shield that defendeth His Cause, the buckler that enableth His people to attain to victory. It is a standard that no man can abase, a force that no power can rival. By its aid, and by the leave of Him Who is the Lord of Hosts, they that have drawn nigh unto God have been able to subdue and conquer the citadels of the hearts of men.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 272

Yes, I tried to make that clear. I said that I was reading the verse using "a common noun not a divine name". And I provided an example of the exact same word, exact same spelling, in the Greek, which is not referring to a divine name.

Ready to discuss the verse now? The word "Lord" is in there. It doesn't have to be referring to "The LORD". Of course, it could be. And if it does then that's the deal breaker right there. Jesus as "The LORD" is obviously going to far and away exceed anything Bahaullah has to offer. And that's why I specified and gave an bit of proof that the word for "Lord" is not always speaking of "The LORD".

Now, if you are saying there can be two "lords" and Bahaullah claims to be a "lord", the "lord of hosts", that doesn't work with this verse. the verse says there is only one.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, Christians are still waiting for Jesus to return. But Christ won't return as another person (incarnation):

Jesus will not return Himself, unless the Bible is in error, and if these straightforward Bible verses are in error, what reason do we have to believe that other Bible verses are not also in error?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

[Jesus:] And then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. (Mk 13)

Sure Jesus warned of false christs, because there have been many false christs, but that does not mean that Jesus was planning to return. When asked what would be the sign of His coming, how did Jesus answer? All Jesus said was to be careful that no man deceives you, because many men would come, claiming to be Christ. Jesus did not answer the question about the sign of His Coming, since Jesus never planned to return to earth, as noted in the verses above.

Matthew 24
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Baha'u'llah never claimed to be Christ, so He was not a false Christ. Baha'u'llah did not come in the name of Christ, He came with a new name, just as the Bible prophesied.

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12-13 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day. (Lk 17)

That prophecy, and many others, have already been fulfilled.

18. Lightning from the East

I now began an earnest search for clues that would tell me something about the place in which the Messiah would appear. Two interesting things came to light. For the first coming, Daniel had given the time and Micah had given the place. Daniel had prophesied exactly when the Messiah would appear the first time and when He would be slain. Micah had said of the place:“But thou, Bethlehem … out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel.” (Micah 5:2)

Daniel had also prophesied with even greater exactness the time of the second coming of the Messiah in 1844 (see p. 20). Therefore, I turned to Micah for a possible clue as to the place of His second appearance. I was richly rewarded. In Micah 7:7 and 12 I found:

“I will wait for the God of my salvation … In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria …” (Micah 7:7, 12)

The Assyrian Empire at one time covered the entire area in which both Daniel and Micah lived out their lives. Therefore, I chose to study those parts of the Empire, in which these two prophets traditionally lived and taught. To my surprise, I found that there were many other clues to follow as well. Gradually one led to another, until a definite picture began to emerge, and I knew at least in which direction to turn my gaze.

The book of Ezekiel spoke of a great Figure who would come in those days. He said:“And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east.” (Ezekiel 43:2)

This was clearly a reference to the second coming of Christ and not the first, for Jesus did not come from the way of the East, He came from north and west of Jerusalem. Isaiah in like manner spoke of the wondrous Figure who would come from the East. Isaiah said that it was God Himself Who had “… raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings.” (Isaiah 41:2) Even Christ Himself pointed to the direction from which He would appear in the day of His second coming. Speaking of that day, He said: “For as the lightning cometh out of the East … so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” (Matthew 24:27)

The Jewish Oracles, the Sibylline books, prophesied that the ‘King Messiah’ of the time of the end would come ‘from the sunrise’. (The Messianic Idea in Israel, J. G. Klausner, 1956, p. 376). Daniel had written his words of millennial prophecy while in the East. Infact, he was in Elam, a part of ancient Persia, when he foretold with such startling accuracy the exact time of both the first and the second comings of Christ. It was in the capital city of Persia, Shúshán, (Ancient Susa, Khúzistán, south-west Írán) that Daniel had the prophetic vision that revealed the year 1844 as the time for the return of the Messiah. Daniel not only gave the time 1844, but he also directed attention to the place, saying that ‘Elam’ (Persia) would be given as a place of ‘vision’ in the latter days (Daniel 8:2). The Prophet Jeremiah speaks of things that ‘shall come to pass in the latterdays’ and in the verse preceding this, he says: “And I will set my throne in Elam (Persia) … saith the Lord.” (Jeremiah 49:38). I came across a prophecy well known among the Arabs. Speaking of the time of the end, it said: “When the promised One appears, the ‘upholders of His faith shall be the people of Persia.’” (The Dawn-breakers, Nabíl, p. 49). All these prophecies clearly showed that the Messiah would come from the East, and they put a strong emphasis on the territory of Persia. It was something definite to go on. The circle was narrowing.

William Sears, Thief in the Night, pp. 73-75

Regarding "many things" Jesus had to say:

Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries. (CCC 66)​

Where did Jesus say that? Can you tell me what Bible chapter and verse that is stated in?

This could hardly be the age of the fulfillment - the world is not filled with righteousness and peace, there is death, suffering...

We are only 160 years into the Messianic Age that will last no less than 1000 years, so the Messianic Age prophecies have not all being fulfilled. They are in the 'process' of being fulfilled. For example:

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Baha'is believe that Baha’u’llah was the Prince of Peace and the Lord of hosts and that world peace will be established during His religious dispensation. Please note that the prophecy does not say 'when' peace will be established, but where it says there shall be no end to the peace that indicates that it won't happen all at once but rather it will unfold gradually. That is exactly what is happening right now. The same is true for the government. It says that there shall be 'no end' to the government which means it will begin and be established gradually and continue to develop over time. The government will be more developed in the future as the prophecy says (increase in government).

Baha’u’llah set up a 'system of government' and it has already been established among the Baha’is. The institutions of that government are fully operational, but still in their infancy. What we now refer to as Local Spiritual assemblies (LSAs) and will eventually evolve into what will be called Houses of Justice.

Where in the Bible does it say that world will instantly be filled with righteousness and peace and there will be an end to death and suffering the moment that Christ returns? Nowhere. How could that even happen? Is Jesus going to wave a magic wand? That is essentially what Christians believe, but their belief is based upon a misinterpretation of many Bible verses and wishful thinking.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, I tried to make that clear. I said that I was reading the verse using "a common noun not a divine name". And I provided an example of the exact same word, exact same spelling, in the Greek, which is not referring to a divine name.

View attachment 72293

Ready to discuss the verse now? The word "Lord" is in there.

Okay, thanks for clarifying the difference between Lord and The LORD.

Are you referring to this verse?

Matthew 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

It doesn't have to be referring to "The LORD". Of course, it could be. And if it does then that's the deal breaker right there. Jesus as "The LORD" is obviously going to far and away exceed anything Bahaullah has to offer. And that's why I specified and gave an bit of proof that the word for "Lord" is not always speaking of "The LORD".

So, if the word Lord is not referring to The LORD, what do you think it is referring to? Let's start there.

Now, if you are saying there can be two "lords" and Bahaullah claims to be a "lord", the "lord of hosts", that doesn't work with this verse. the verse says there is only one.

There is only one LORD, the LORD God.
Lord to me means a man who represents God and comes with a message from God.
What verse says there is only one Lord?

 

[rational experiences]

The heavens reasoning by a Humans living experience.

Star fall origin man of earth as the origins human only sciences as science had activated gods rock law broken. After ice age occurrence man knew one third held frozen planetoid stars fell before.

Archaeology says yes a lot of instant snap frozen in fusion as artefacts machine parts found.

He had overheated space between origin attack history of the sun to earth ending... he took away spaces frozen seal.

Told you he realised why sun stars now hit earth. Knew thesis of science had overcome spatial giant law.

So he told everyone the star that hit earth changing my spiritual consciousness. Was now into a Nasty man is not my fathers life. Stars attack had eradicated life nature and giant life. Twice.

It came back and returns.

Satan body.

Men think self safe saved don't live their brothers experience as Jesus or Baha'i. Its like Russia as blasted...in another nation.

The teaching. It's all false man's ideas.

It's not origin human life living conditions.
It's not father's original life consciousness either.

So teaching said father mother's heavens living records are the now deceased life. Memories.

They cannot bodily return into DNA biology by origin osmosis health. As sex by DNA interactive had stopped it.

As sex owns sin. Heavens never had sin.

So we can never healthily return to origin human heavens DNA water life. Man of science told everyone he had separated biology from it.

As I nearly died as a baby the heavens changing had supported my varied human psychic review history.

I virtually owned my own experience life removed given back... without being interfered interactively by historic science mans mind belief...theist of machine sciences.

Reasons of natural heavenly changing bodily.

Bio life is in science exact living biology human.

Our beginning human says we own no theistic human statement a humans beginning.

As the human the end as theism is a human actually.. so we own no end in theism either. As teaching relativity by a human is about wrong bad even evil human conscious thoughts.

Anyone trying to theory against us consciously agrees and agreed with life's destruction the warning...star sun satanisms only.

No man is God...as only god as mass was created in the space womb.

Was a legal argument ignored today as men enjoy arguing.

 

[soulsurvivor]

That's true, but the difference is that Muslims don't reject Jesus whereas Christians reject Muhammad.
Moreover, Christians believe that Jesus is unique because Jesus is God whereas Muslims believe Muhammad was only a Messenger of God, not even divine, and Muslims validate all the Messengers who preceded Muhammad.

Christianity is unique in its exclusivity of everyone who is not Jesus.

I believe that already happened.

If the following hadith is true then it has not happened yet. Also even if the Christ may be different from Jesus, that does not mean that Jesus himself will not return.
Hadith of Jesus praying behind Mahdi - Wikipedia . In this case the Mahdi will be the Christ.

 

[dybmh]

Okay, thanks for clarifying the difference between Lord and The LORD.

Are you referring to this verse?

Matthew 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

Dangit. I messed up. There's a couple of problems. First, the verse in Matthew doesn't have the exact same spelling. The last letter is different. I found other examples with the exact same spelling, but, none of that actually matters.

The earliest Greek manuscripts, I have just learned, used a system of differentiating between the common noun "lord" and the divine name "LORD" called "nomina sacra". "LORD" was usually written "ΚΣ" with a line over it. So, it doesn't matter if the words are spelled exactly the same in the current versions of Paul's letters. The versions we have now, capitalize the greek word for Lord in 1 Corinthians 8:6. The verses I have been comparing to that do not have the word for lord capitalized. This could be a modern addition, or, it could be reflecting the nomina sacra.

The earliest extant copies of Paul's letters are from around 200 CE. And I just checked, it is using the nomina sacra at least for Θεός / God. Obviously it isn't Paul's handwriting. So we don't really know how Paul wrote it. And so, we're kind of stuck with the age old question: did Paul believe Jesus was God or not? And comparing the spelling of the greek word for lord/master with the word used for "The LORD" isn't going to get us any closer to figuring that out.

So, if the word Lord is not referring to The LORD, what do you think it is referring to? Let's start there.

Honestly, I need to keep researching this before commenting more.

There is only one LORD, the LORD God.
Lord to me means a man who represents God and comes with a message from God.
What verse says there is only one Lord?

That's 1 Corinthians 8:6. It says, one Lord. It doesn't say only. I think saying "one Lord" implies "only". On the ther hand, if Paul wanted to say only, he could have. There's plenty of examples of him doing so. See here and scroll down; there's lots of examples from Paul's letters.

Strong's Greek: 3440. μόνον (monon) -- 67 Occurrences

 

[rational experiences]

Law.

First God in its womb position O earth rock pressures in space law.

O earth pressure exact.

O earth rebelled against cooling laws burst by volcanic mountain O top opened. Isn't about space pressures. It's about earths mass only not cooling.

All historic God in womb teachings where only spatial pressure void vacuum caused immaculate gases clear.

Sun put new mass density into heavens consuming through earths extreme clear God equated immaculate. God was with water with crystal mass on top of ground.

All origin earths immaculate laws instantly changed. Sun is evil. Not scientific whatsoever.

No laws about origin earth anymore don't believe in evil the sun as man's scientific teaching.

As after earth in attack space increased by newly opened void by masses removal ...so the sun planetoids became rock.

Isn't the same natural history.

So a volcano inside heavens now released only evil gases. Mountain law gone historic. CH that arose was once only immaculate.

As CHrist is now anti ignored.

You cannot be two laws as one body.

Ignored.

Only clear gas immaculate was correct.

It's sacrifice immaculate alight gases sits in mother's womb vacuum void. Nowhere else. Born inside space mother womb was the Sacrificed body... God's Inheritor. Notice not any condition whatsoever about man.

Ask why. Man's baby adult living was born by real sex in human womb. Lost his mind consciousness by star fall. Is the exact teaching stating using human sexual connotations as God science is not science. You lie.

The sacrifice God inheritance is womb position. Taught. You ignore. Space.

Now ask science how can a Body of Methane CH be termed holy?

Oh in bio life it's not holy. In gods terms its earths only holy spirit gases...science only not the living.

Also told directly it's not the living. Ignored.

Ignored taught relativity.

As to remove CH arose isn't Christ.

Relativity advice is after effects hurt life.... as it's a Teaching only after revelations and testimonials.

Ignored. Not used correctly first in theism. Told after why.

 

[rational experiences]

Dangit. I messed up. There's a couple of problems. First, the verse in Matthew doesn't have the exact same spelling. The last letter is different. I found other examples with the exact same spelling, but, none of that actually matters.

The earliest Greek manuscripts, I have just learned, used a system of differentiating between the common noun "lord" and the divine name "LORD" called "nomina sacra". "LORD" was usually written "ΚΣ" with a line over it. So, it doesn't matter if the words are spelled exactly the same in the current versions of Paul's letters. The versions we have now, capitalize the greek word for Lord in 1 Corinthians 8:6. The verses I have been comparing to that do not have the word for lord capitalized. This could be a modern addition, or, it could be reflecting the nomina sacra.

The earliest extant copies of Paul's letters are from around 200 CE. And I just checked, it is using the nomina sacra at least for Θεός / God. Obviously it isn't Paul's handwriting. So we don't really know how Paul wrote it. And so, we're kind of stuck with the age old question: did Paul believe Jesus was God or not? And comparing the spelling of the greek word for lord/master with the word used for "The LORD" isn't going to get us any closer to figuring that out.

Honestly, I need to keep researching this before commenting more.

That's 1 Corinthians 8:6. It says, one Lord. It doesn't say only. I think saying "one Lord" implies "only". On the ther hand, if Paul wanted to say only, he could have. There's plenty of examples of him doing so. See here and scroll down; there's lots of examples from Paul's letters.

Strong's Greek: 3440. μόνον (monon) -- 67 Occurrences

Civilisation design built first. I learnt why when chemical mind vision changed.

Gods earth mountains has old origin science model etched into Rock. You can see temple like bodies etched in stone and statues also everywhere on earth. In destroyed mountains mass.

Man's mind design to built cities first copying earths model. Came directly advised by gods earth mass.

Man losing his head Rome learnt that lesson.

Man father son history DNA was living conscious man on his earths nation.

Did theistic input to old model as henges...new temple pyramid science safe now. Learnt he had lied. Instant blow up.

Temples pyramid blew again. Of course earths mass isn't granite pressures or casement pyramid.

Men of science knew man of science model lied. Pressures.

So Rome the mind DNA nationality eventually gained burning star mass fall attacked was then hurt sacrificed. Many times.

So men today say by science you Rome are the mother abomination. Having already occurred. Were taught theists lied.

Not mother abomination now. It stopped.

But man learnt about losing his head by star fall.

Taught man didn't own star fall..nor the cause star fall. God space laws had.

As men on earth changed heated earths space relativity advice.

How men knew star mass returned wasn't science or used by science. As not practicing any science is when it hit. How it was learnt...by DNA owner on landed Inheritance.

Taught. Ignored all man's preached teachings that no man is God.

Lost mind head past advice.

So where you think now is where you get it returned original scene of crime.

Native father's warnings ignored as you think your DNA nation by mind is safe. Not origin land owner mind.

All about how a humans unnatural theist mind lied...not using consciousness who'd never change anything teaching.

 

[Trailblazer]

If the following hadith is true then it has not happened yet. Also even if the Christ may be different from Jesus, that does not mean that Jesus himself will not return.
Hadith of Jesus praying behind Mahdi - Wikipedia . In this case the Mahdi will be the Christ.

Jesus never said that He was going to return to this world.
Not only did Jesus say that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world, there is not one single verse in the New Testament where Jesus said He was going to return to this world.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

That means the return of Christ has to be referring to another man. Everyone is free to believe whatever they want to believe about who that man is or will be, and beliefs will vary depending upon what scriptures and verses they are reading.

 

[Trailblazer]

Honestly, I need to keep researching this before commenting more.

Please let me know what you find out.

That's 1 Corinthians 8:6. It says, one Lord. It doesn't say only. I think saying "one Lord" implies "only".

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Yes, I think it implies there is only one Lord Jesus Christ, and I don't think that adding only was necessary in this case.
My question is what Paul means by Lord, if he is implying that Jesus is God.

I also don't understand what he means by "of whom are all things, and we in him;" and "by whom are all things, and we by him." If it said "made" after things like some other verses in Cor. at least it would make sense, although I don't believe all things were made by Jesus, I believe all things were made by God. It makes no sense that anything was made by Jesus unless Jesus was God.

 

[rational experiences]

Did just a human as a man denoted in species. Is in medical science by comparing human bodies. Theorising as I own a penis?

Yes.

In science isn't God all things immaterial by theists terminology only...how I get Gods power?

Yes. Not sexual.

But relativity the body of god in science is mass flesh many types?

Yes.

So no man is God is first advice?

Yes.

Then the immaterial God of thought being man's terms. Was caused by. Star not science God? In heavens immaterial.

Yes.

Changed his mind where his head state was as man and then lied?

Yes.

As two heavens changes occurred. Change to its mass by star hit and burn. Vacuum void law of cold saved life? Spirit gas cold set alight sacrificed. Natural light already existed.

Yes.

So thinker a man says he him his ownership status I thought God myself in heavens is immaterial?

Yes.

Yet biology isnt immaterial.

He puts himself into being a God when he wasn't a God. Depicted as man body beasts heads...chemical mind had changed.

Why pictographs said he wasn't any god. He thought and acted like O earth claiming all jewels metals riches man owned. Not earth owned as the God.

Yes.

Why man acted as if he were God. Rich man designer built cities first. Evolution cooling gave him an evolved bio mind technical advice. After.

Man said evolution is science lied. As evolution supports now only..nowhere else.

As all reactions are past when no seal existed. No rock.

No reaction owned a future yet science predicts it as a future by machine he builds in his future?

Yes.

Eventually reactive machine blows up.

Proven many times as nuclear plants had to shut down by overheating our heavens that cool by huge reactive storms.

Men knew theoried how lightning was. activated.

No opening or shutting. Collapsed collisions.

Displaced lying man mind theistic pyramid visions were first. Not science first.

Pyramid channels widows owned wells opened shut as programmed for casement cooling. Tunnels. Still heard in memory. As it was above from tip blue ray used underground...hadn't come from out of space.

Is where men reviewed how the origin giant pyramid had been functioning first.

The ceiling of which as men knew collapsed on their head. As it blew up.

Ask why man after ice age heard man's science recorded speaking voice?

Satan cloud angel mass records. Cooled emerged a long time after all life combusted.

So whose image fell out of clouds?

Oh angels of Satan had only...not anything else.

Not the garden body...not animals ...nor man or woman it was Adam..satanic science double thesis. Phi causes...not phi.

As phi is just a circle measured as a number.

It was images of Satan angels that fell out.

Yes said satanic scientists we knew why we heard speakinig voices saw visions. Man's brain chemistry had changed. Earths cloud mass body had fallen. Yet still a human still a man as species type and scientist in person.

No man is God.

Future by scientists a reactive science caused predicted destruction the earth warning.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Equality with God is not so clear in the Bible but it is certain that the person who incarnated as Jesus was in the beginning the (only) co-Creator of the world. So God and he alone are above all creation (including all "messengers").

According to who? Certainly not according to Jesus.

According to the Bible (and Jesus in the Bible).

The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’ Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?” Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. (John 8)​

See also: Parable of the Wicked Husbandmen - Wikipedia

This part is true. His kingdom is in heaven, not on earth.

"Not of this world" means his kingdom operates in a different manner.

Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their superiors exercise authority over them. But it shall not be this way among you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be the slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.” (Mk 10)​

 

[rational experiences]

In the beginning the immaculate heavens clear owned no light.

Immaculate term is itself immaculate as immaculate.

Men who contest all self advice said...yet it still was created.

Yes that's right theist advice is never good enough.

So my wise brother said God is rock.

Rock held hell mass within.

So the body mass within is evil.

It burst forth but rock god was more powerful.

So evil became with space womb...lied. Womb never evil.

Do you realise why you man self changed your mind?

Oh oh he says I said my mind as man aware said God is rock owned evil inside its body.

I can't have that advice about a man as a God I don't own evil Inside my body.

I'm conscious I'm comparing.

If you understand the review of theist evil men is true.

Now if the mother human yours had evil inside her body it would be you man adult baby lying theist.

Yet you never agreed the only thinker wrong was man scientist.

Earth in space was a huge holy womb not of your discussion was your mistake.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Jesus will not return Himself, unless the Bible is in error, and if these straightforward Bible verses are in error, what reason do we have to believe that other Bible verses are not also in error?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Sure Jesus warned of false christs, because there have been many false christs, but that does not mean that Jesus was planning to return. When asked what would be the sign of His coming, how did Jesus answer? All Jesus said was to be careful that no man deceives you, because many men would come, claiming to be Christ. Jesus did not answer the question about the sign of His Coming, since Jesus never planned to return to earth, as noted in the verses above.

Matthew 24
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Baha'u'llah never claimed to be Christ, so He was not a false Christ. Baha'u'llah did not come in the name of Christ, He came with a new name, just as the Bible prophesied.

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12-13 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

That prophecy, and many others, have already been fulfilled.

18. Lightning from the East

I now began an earnest search for clues that would tell me something about the place in which the Messiah would appear. Two interesting things came to light. For the first coming, Daniel had given the time and Micah had given the place. Daniel had prophesied exactly when the Messiah would appear the first time and when He would be slain. Micah had said of the place:“But thou, Bethlehem … out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel.” (Micah 5:2)

Daniel had also prophesied with even greater exactness the time of the second coming of the Messiah in 1844 (see p. 20). Therefore, I turned to Micah for a possible clue as to the place of His second appearance. I was richly rewarded. In Micah 7:7 and 12 I found:

“I will wait for the God of my salvation … In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria …” (Micah 7:7, 12)

The Assyrian Empire at one time covered the entire area in which both Daniel and Micah lived out their lives. Therefore, I chose to study those parts of the Empire, in which these two prophets traditionally lived and taught. To my surprise, I found that there were many other clues to follow as well. Gradually one led to another, until a definite picture began to emerge, and I knew at least in which direction to turn my gaze.

The book of Ezekiel spoke of a great Figure who would come in those days. He said:“And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east.” (Ezekiel 43:2)

This was clearly a reference to the second coming of Christ and not the first, for Jesus did not come from the way of the East, He came from north and west of Jerusalem. Isaiah in like manner spoke of the wondrous Figure who would come from the East. Isaiah said that it was God Himself Who had “… raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings.” (Isaiah 41:2) Even Christ Himself pointed to the direction from which He would appear in the day of His second coming. Speaking of that day, He said: “For as the lightning cometh out of the East … so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” (Matthew 24:27)

The Jewish Oracles, the Sibylline books, prophesied that the ‘King Messiah’ of the time of the end would come ‘from the sunrise’. (The Messianic Idea in Israel, J. G. Klausner, 1956, p. 376). Daniel had written his words of millennial prophecy while in the East. Infact, he was in Elam, a part of ancient Persia, when he foretold with such startling accuracy the exact time of both the first and the second comings of Christ. It was in the capital city of Persia, Shúshán, (Ancient Susa, Khúzistán, south-west Írán) that Daniel had the prophetic vision that revealed the year 1844 as the time for the return of the Messiah. Daniel not only gave the time 1844, but he also directed attention to the place, saying that ‘Elam’ (Persia) would be given as a place of ‘vision’ in the latter days (Daniel 8:2). The Prophet Jeremiah speaks of things that ‘shall come to pass in the latterdays’ and in the verse preceding this, he says: “And I will set my throne in Elam (Persia) … saith the Lord.” (Jeremiah 49:38). I came across a prophecy well known among the Arabs. Speaking of the time of the end, it said: “When the promised One appears, the ‘upholders of His faith shall be the people of Persia.’” (The Dawn-breakers, Nabíl, p. 49). All these prophecies clearly showed that the Messiah would come from the East, and they put a strong emphasis on the territory of Persia. It was something definite to go on. The circle was narrowing.

William Sears, Thief in the Night, pp. 73-75

Where did Jesus say that? Can you tell me what Bible chapter and verse that is stated in?

We are only 160 years into the Messianic Age that will last no less than 1000 years, so the Messianic Age prophecies have not all being fulfilled. They are in the 'process' of being fulfilled. For example:

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Baha'is believe that Baha’u’llah was the Prince of Peace and the Lord of hosts and that world peace will be established during His religious dispensation. Please note that the prophecy does not say 'when' peace will be established, but where it says there shall be no end to the peace that indicates that it won't happen all at once but rather it will unfold gradually. That is exactly what is happening right now. The same is true for the government. It says that there shall be 'no end' to the government which means it will begin and be established gradually and continue to develop over time. The government will be more developed in the future as the prophecy says (increase in government).

Baha’u’llah set up a 'system of government' and it has already been established among the Baha’is. The institutions of that government are fully operational, but still in their infancy. What we now refer to as Local Spiritual assemblies (LSAs) and will eventually evolve into what will be called Houses of Justice.

Where in the Bible does it say that world will instantly be filled with righteousness and peace and there will be an end to death and suffering the moment that Christ returns? Nowhere. How could that even happen? Is Jesus going to wave a magic wand? That is essentially what Christians believe, but their belief is based upon a misinterpretation of many Bible verses and wishful thinking.

God raised Jesus "from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. (Eph 1)

Risen Christ appeared to apostles and ascended to Father in heaven. That he has finished his saving mission on earth and the world will temporary not see him is correct (John 17). No error in Bible verses here. For now he is present in Church as his "body". Jesus' last words (in Matthew): "And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

If something is in the process of getting fulfilled it means it isn't fulfilled yet. Baha'u'llah didn't change anything. Fulfillment was already in the process in the time when Jesus walked the earth and preached: "The kingdom of God has come near, " and "The kingdom of God is in your midst."

You said: Baha'u'llah never claimed to be Christ. Now I'm a little confused. Do you believe he is the second coming of Christ or not?

Jesus didn't just warn of false Christs. He also foretold his second coming and the manner of comming - he will not appear as a human born on earth again - instead he will come in "great glory". He will not be seen here or there but everywhere (like a lightning is seen far away). Great signs will be in the sky...

Where does Jesus say it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp full significance of his revelation (with the help of Holy Spirit)? It's in John 16:13: "... when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth." I know you have a different interpretation of this verse.

 

[soulsurvivor]

ot only did Jesus say that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world, there is not one single verse in the New Testament where Jesus said He was going to return to this world.

Sounds like you don't believe in this Hadith: Hadith of Jesus praying behind Mahdi - Wikipedia . But like you said everyone is free to believe what they want.

That means the return of Christ has to be referring to another man.

This is true. But Jesus will still come after the Christ and neither have shown up yet.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sounds like you don't believe in this Hadith: Hadith of Jesus praying behind Mahdi - Wikipedia .
Hadith of Jesus Praying Behind Mahdi (Persian: حدیث نماز خواندن عیسی به امامت مهدی) refers to a collection of hadith related to the prophecy that after Jesus (Isa) descends from heaven to join the Mahdi and his followers in the final days before the destruction of Earth, Jesus will decline the offer of the Mahdi to lead the Mahdi and company in salat (Islamic ritual prayer which Muslims perform five times a day) telling the Mahdi to lead. The Mahdi is an Islamic figure in Islamic eschatology, and salat is the Islamic practice of worship of God.

No, I don't believe that, since the Bible says in more than one verse that Jesus is never coming back to Earth.
Moreover, Hadith are a collection of traditions containing sayings of the prophet Muhammad but they are not scripture.

But like you said everyone is free to believe what they want.
This is true. But Jesus will still come after the Christ and neither have shown up yet.

You are free to 'believe' anything you want to believe, but I'd be careful not to state it as a fact unless you have proof to back it up. Jesus clearly said He would never return to this world. That is as close we can get to a fact.

(John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30)

 

[rational experiences]

The human man's theistic mind experience

You live you know everything you named as men.... you knew stars hit earth.

All other information not your ownership body or living. It's theism about other bodies all bodies.

You know you die.
You know as you live you live inside holy water inside ground heavens. As you walk around.

You learnt about Reactions...

Yet no beginning is exact.

So instead you said a zero.

A reaction causes an end. So it's not a zero.

Then you argue. I caused in a reaction an end as space nothing opens in a reaction. Yet it hadn't ended as nothing. So it's not Infinite womb.

It ended as remainders.

So the idea I took mass dust away on gods ground made it come across above...but then it leaves.

In law vacuum void puts the resources sacrificed body exact where it belonged. Out...to be sacrificed as light.

So as a star mass is burning men hoped that by the time it enters above a gas alight it would have left its own body.

Why they calculate wondering if a large body infinite mass will come and hit earth...light travel speed mass....about just spirit gases.

Otherwise a huge change explosions above to ground explosions ensue.

Laws said men are precise. We knew we changed them so we watched for incoming advices of danger.

So it isn't replacing anything. We never really wanted it returned.

As you cannot replace what men consumed out of earths mass. Only holes are left and not replaced mass.

Men thought as space caused rock stone twice then just energy should become rock again. It hadn't it's freed said science too.

Reasoned as space converted energy twice into rock...didn't do it a third time as the energy not rock was freed.

What he learnt.

Now we read the testimony it has revelations and advice. So the reader says as living it's only the thin king human not mind body man who left.....

My review men caused nothing holes in earth by thin king the sun had created earths mass.

The sun only consumed it.

Hence science was proven wrong.

Baha'i weren't scientists.

Science said to science don't be fooled by the advice sun star.

It isn't replacing anything.

Bahuallah left biology told you. So like mother father his biology was changed and had been damaged. Is ignored about position the living man.

The theist proved he believed sun mass was replaced. Freed energy isn't replaced either it's used to be light.

Teaching science is wrong was exact wisdom.

The con pretending you're not a man a scientist just a theist on earth the warning.

 

[CG Didymus]

Well, in theory, Luke 1:31-35 states that the son of Mary will have an eternal kingdom over Jacob and will be called the Son of God. Now, that doesn't really speak about mediation literally, but, the Son of God + eternal kingdom suggests that he will always and forever have an audience with God where he could plead a person's case.

Sorry if I've already asked this before, but how many "The Messiah's" are predicted in the Hebrew Bible? Christians go through a lot of creative interpreting just to get Jesus to come twice. With the Baha'i Faith, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah all have to be Messiah's that were predicted. With Baha'u'llah being the one that fulfills the prophecies that brings peace. One more thing, I've asked Baha'is this, but they don't give me an answer. How can Baha'u'llah be The Messiah when he never set foot in Jerusalem?