the existence of god is a scientific fact

[TransmutingSoul]

Adolph Hitler transformed and changed entire civilisations and transformed the lives of billions of people.
Mao Zedong transformed and changed entire civilisations and transformed the lives of billions of people.

What's your point?

Not in the name of God they didn’t.

Also time is a telling factor. Faith given by God will always motivate people to live virtuous lives and will last thousands of years.

Worldly based ideals and a few that fall away from the pure teachings and practice their own, have no longevity in this world.

Regards Tony

 

[joe1776]

No, an example where a candidate was improperly denied the Randi prize.

No, I can't. Can you give me an example of a candidate who was given a fair chance to succeed and didn't?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How can my interpretation be a strawman when the two versions of your claims don't match? Which one have I misrepresented?

In the original you claimed "no reliable evidence." In the upgraded version of your claim you require publication in mainstream journals.If you'd like to say that you always intended "reliable evidence" to mean that publication in a mainstream journal was required, then we have a simple misunderstanding and we've wasted our time.

If publication in a mainstream journal isn't what you intended with your original claim, then you've been proved wrong.

You did not seem to understand the concept of reliable sources, I did not change, I explained further so that hopefully you could understand.

So far that concept appears to be beyond your ken.

 

[blü 2]

No, I can't.

Then you have no basis to criticize the point that @Subduction Zone made. The failure of any person to win the Randi prize stands as good evidence as to the lack of credibility of paranormal claims.

Can you give me an example of a candidate who was given a fair chance to succeed and didn't?

The procedure for testing is as set out in the link I gave you. I have no reason, and by your statement, neither have you, to think any of the tests were unfairly conducted.

 

[Thief]

Whut?

Your experiment is how you get your results.

yeah....
and the means of method should be held

but the existence of God cannot be tested in the physical

God is Spirit

you think you can test God?

 

[Thief]

The latter, obviously.

well then....
even if you could test for the existence of God....
you would be testing for the wrong item

 

[Subduction Zone]

yeah....
and the means of method should be held

but the existence of God cannot be tested in the physical

God is Spirit

you think you can test God?

The OP seems to think that is the case since he is the one that said that the existence of God is a scientific fact. Those that understand the sciences have pointed out that this is not the case. I do not know of any way that the existence of God can be tested. The good news for you is that the inability to test for God does not refute God. The bad news is that the inability to test for God does not confirm God. The sciences are mute on the existence or nonexistence of God.

 

[tayla]

If God can interact with the physical world, as some religious people have claimed, then theoretically, such a God should be testable/demonstrable/measurable in some way.

Yes, that is correct. These views of God are false.

 

[ecco]

That is correct. As God allows us to follow our heart. It can be a reward or the punishment.

To quote the Quran;

'There is no compulsion in religion'.

Regards Tony

That's really funny.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's really funny.

It was indeed

It is also true in faith, this is the end of a prayer revealed by the Bab, that shows what was offered, is a spiritual reality.

".... Indeed shouldst Thou desire to confer blessing upon a servant Thou wouldst blot out from the realm of his heart every mention or disposition except Thine Own mention; and shouldst Thou ordain evil for a servant by reason of that which his hands have unjustly wrought before Thy face, Thou wouldst test him with the benefits of this world and of the next that he might become preoccupied therewith and forget Thy remembrance." Bab

Regards Tony

 

[charlie sc]

That is correct. As God allows us to follow our heart. It can be a reward or the punishment.

To quote the Quran;

'There is no compulsion in religion'.

Regards Tony

Umm, maybe I shouldn't say anything, but your reply to me makes you sound like you're one fruit away from a fruit salad. First, if everyone were atheists, no one would attribute anything to god, and second, I'd think that's the last thing a needy god would want, since, apparently, we've understood god through needy prophets and their needy god. It would mean all the prophets are delusional or lairs, maybe both, if your reply is correct.

 

[charlie sc]

I'm optimistic because I think truth eventually emerges to defeat falsity.

Yeah, but when do you eventually give up? Does that line, for you, exist?

And while I can't prove it, I know from one extraordinary experience with each, that telepathy and precognition exist. This isn't a theory that I love. I know the truth.

At least you're intellectually honest to me. That's all I really care about.

 

[paarsurrey]

If someone suggests a cause that is not material, it is not testable by the scientific method.

The truthful G-d is attributive only, He is neither material not a spirit. All material things and the spirits are His creation. So, He is out of the Bounds of the science. Agree? Please

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Umm, maybe I shouldn't say anything, but your reply to me makes you sound like you're one fruit away from a fruit salad. First, if everyone were atheists, no one would attribute anything to god, and second, I'd think that's the last thing a needy god would want, since, apparently, we've understood god through needy prophets and their needy god. It would mean all the prophets are delusional or lairs, maybe both, if your reply is correct.

I am happy you see me as a fruit salad, what a wonderdul thing. A mixture of choice fruits, healthy, delectable and very desirable.

It would matter not to God if all the world did choose to be Athiest. God needs no creature to accept and there would always remain the Signs of God given to man, that is Gods Messengers. They would give their Message and as always take all that man gives back in return, good and bad.

Thus reward and punishment remains in our choices. The greatest of all punishment is to reject God and sustain disbelief in God's Messengers. One may think that they are safe and secure in a fleeting life and not in need of God, but that is not so, to which we will made aware and if not in this life, we will when we move on.

Regards Tony

 

[charlie sc]

I am happy you see me as a fruit salad, what a wonderdul thing. A mixture of choice fruits, healthy, delectable and very desirable.

Yeah...

Thus reward and punishment remains in our choices. The greatest of all punishment is to reject God and sustain disbelief in God's Messengers. One may think that they are safe and secure in a fleeting life and not in need of God, but that is not so, to which we will made aware and if not in this life, we will when we move on.

I always knew behind your peaceful and kind facade there's an undertone of spitefulness and smugness. At least Christians are able to say someone will burn in Hell with some conviction and malice. For you, and it seems my experience of Baha, it's far more hidden and malevolent, in my opinion. Even though Baha seem to ostensibly display some image of serenity, they don't find a problem in their god causing the extreme suffering of others for not believing. In fact, you seem to take pleasure from this idea.

Meh, no thanks.
Regards Charlesc

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You simply don't know what you're talking about.

http://www.deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm

Argument by URL.
And when clicked on, it's just an endless list of even more URL's.

If you have evidence, just post it. Preferably in your own words. Include a URL as a reference.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If they had claimed that there is no evidence accepted by mainstream journals, their claim would be true.

That's essentially what I said yes...

If there were valid evidence, it would be accepted by mainstream science.
But there isn't.

You won't find any from mainstream journals because there is a bias against psi research caused, in my opinion, by the fact that most scientists are philosophical materialists whose belief would be threatened.

Haaaa, here we go....
Accusations of conspiracy.

A year ago, about 100 scientists signed a petition to expose this bias but it won't change anything.

Really? ONE HUNDRED??

Wow!! Like really the full 0.00000001% of scientists out there ha?
Impressive!

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I always knew behind your peaceful and kind facade there's an undertone of spitefulness and smugness. At least Christians are able to say someone will burn in Hell with some conviction and malice. For you, and it seems my experience of Baha, it's far more hidden and malevolent, in my opinion. Even though Baha seem to ostensibly display some image of serenity, they don't find a problem in their god causing the extreme suffering of others for not believing. In fact, you seem to take pleasure from this idea.

Meh, no thanks.
Regards Charlesc

There is absolutely no spitefulness or smugness, it is just passing on what every Messenger of God has told us. That they have chosen suffering over kingship and ease of life is a lesson we can choose to understand, or ignore.

We have no idea of what a life in the spiritual world entails, there has only been glimpses given. Thus we have been told to forget God is Hell. Thus if one has chosen this path, the action is its punishment, even if they have the most comfortable and materially rewarding life possible. Also no problem if you choose not to accept that, one can know I am not here to judge them and their choices.

If one is happy that life without God is for them, then that is their choice. I wish everybody well and happy in life and all the best of choices.

Regards Tony

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Well from these studies we do not know the effect is even real, so far. And the science community in general does not believe it is real. That is plain.

So replication, along the lines you suggest, to get a stronger correlation, would seem to be research crying out to be done, by the advocates of it. The funding issue for research of this sort is pretty modest and I am in no doubt that some sympathetic philanthropist could easily be found, if funding were an issue.

Whenever people who like to accuse the scientific community of "conspiracy" as to why they don't "want to" publish their "research" start complaining about how they can't get any proper funding "because science conspiracy".... I always chuckle and then remind them that friggin Ken Ham managed to gather 100 MILLION dollars for his ridiculous Ark Encounter.

That's a MULTITUDE of budget that the vast majority of actual scientists can get for their actual legit research.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I think that psi researchers are already doing what they need to do. They have created their own journal

lol!

Sounds suspiciously like what creationists do.

Gradually, they will persuade more and more people that psi research is useful.

If you say so.
Call us when that happens.