the existence of god is a scientific fact

[TagliatelliMonster]

With my six year-old daughter sending from one room and me in another, she sent and I received visions of playing cards that allowed me to correctly identify 13 cards in a row before my daughter tired of the game and quit sending.

My daughter didn't see the visions in my head; my wife, standing behind my daughter saw the correct choices but she couldn't see the visions in my head.
There was no way I could prove to anyone that I hadn't simply guessed 13 cards in a row although the odds of doing that are something like 18 million to one.

In a scientific test, there would be no way to prove that I hadn't trained my daughter to cheat because the researchers couldn't see the visions in my head.

Doing 13 cards was very difficult. It was hard to distinguish spades and clubs and hearts and diamonds. Face cards were tough to distinguish. Counting the spots between a five and a six or a 7 and 8 was't easy.

52 cards in a row would be near impossible unless the sender and receiver had an especially strong connection.

The Zener cards are used in experiments. There are five cards, easily distinguishable. They would have been a snap for me and my daughter. But it isn't enough that a pair score well. The experiment has to be conducted in such a way that it is all done automatically (no other humans involved to eliminate the transference of data).

Someday, when an advanced f MRI can see the cards transmitted to the receiver's brain, telepathy will be accepted by mainstream science.

1. argument by anecdote

2. things much more improbably then 1 in 18 million happen every day

3. repeat your experiment under controlled conditions, with supervision and proper documentation, and achieve the same result a couple times in a row. Until then, your claim is on par with alien abduction.

 

[charlie sc]

There is absolutely no spitefulness or smugness, it is just passing on what every Messenger of God has told us. That they have chosen suffering over kingship and ease of life is a lesson we can choose to understand, or ignore.

We have no idea of what a life in the spiritual world entails, there has only been glimpses given. Thus we have been told to forget God is Hell. Thus if one has chosen this path, the action is its punishment, even if they have the most comfortable and materially rewarding life possible. Also no problem if you choose not to accept that, one can know I am not here to judge them and their choices.

If one is happy that life without God is for them, then that is their choice. I wish everybody well and happy in life and all the best of choices.

Regards Tony

Yeah, so how do you feel about a god that causes the suffering of those because they did not believe in it?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

yeah....
and the means of method should be held

but the existence of God cannot be tested in the physical

God is Spirit

you think you can test God?

Bummer.

You know what else you can't test?
EVERY SINGLE unfalsifiable claim.

Like this one: did you know there is an undetectable extra-dimensional 7-headed dragon following you around everywhere you go?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yeah, so how do you feel about a god that causes the suffering of those because they did not believe in it?

I think we cause a lot of our own suffering.

I see it is allowed, as it teaches us our part in this world is but a fleeting moment in time, it is the matrix of our spiritual existance.

There is a wisdom in suffering that we will not know until we pass from this life into our spiritual existance. An example is our birth into this world. A result of the act of Love, a life is created and then a mother suffers much pain to give birth, but a bond is created and a mothers selfless Love results.

All suffering, as a result of injustice or a series of unfortunate events I see is recompensed in our life to come.

All God's Mesengers have allowed men to dominate over and persecute them, the Scriptures testify to what has been done to them. They are the first to live a life in tune with the Message they give.

Regards Tony

 

[joe1776]

Then you have no basis to criticize the point that @Subduction Zone made. The failure of any person to win the Randi prize stands as good evidence as to the lack of credibility of paranormal claims. The procedure for testing is as set out in the link I gave you. I have no reason, and by your statement, neither have you, to think any of the tests were unfairly conducted.

In my last post to you I asked: Can you give me an example of a candidate who was given a fair chance to succeed and didn't? Since you ducked the question, it's fair to presume that you don't personally have any more evidence than I do on this topic. That being the case, I offer these two facts in evidence:

(1) James Randi made his living for many years as a stage magician skilled in the art of deception;

(2) Whether the applicant passed or failed the test was not determined by an independent arbiter which means that the decision on whether the prize would be paid was solely in the hands of Randi or his representative.

On those two facts alone, a fairly intelligent person with an unbiased mind would have cause to doubt that the prize was a legitimate offer. I recognize your intelligence, so I conclude that you don't doubt it because your mind is biased.

 

[joe1776]

1. argument by anecdote

2. things much more improbably then 1 in 18 million happen every day

3. repeat your experiment under controlled conditions, with supervision and proper documentation, and achieve the same result a couple times in a row. Until then, your claim is on par with alien abduction.

If I had guessed 13 cards in a row, your point that it could have been a rare coincidence would be valid. But I wasn't guessing. I saw images of the cards from another room. So, your point misses the mark.

I wasn't interested in documenting the experience because I don't care whether anyone believes me. The only reason you're hearing about it is because it explains my opinions on the research involved with telepathy.

 

[joe1776]

lol!

Sounds suspiciously like what creationists do.



If you say so.
Call us when that happens.

This is debate. Do you have an actual argument to make?

 

[joe1776]

lol!

Sounds suspiciously like what creationists do.



If you say so.
Call us when that happens.

Still no actual argument to make?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

If I had guessed 13 cards in a row, your point that it could have been a rare coincidence would be valid. But I wasn't guessing. I saw images of the cards from another room.

I wasn't interested in documenting the experience because I don't care whether anyone believes me. The only reason you're hearing about it is because it explains my opinions on the research involved with telepathy.

Do you not think it would be extremely, EXTREMELY beneficial to humanity for you to demonstrate that this phenomenon you experienced happened?

If I was able to do what you did, I would be straight to the nearest scientist to set up a controlled demonstration of what I could do. You could literally revolutionize human thinking about how the mind works and what it is capable of, and open up an entirely new field of credible scientific inquiry which could result in discoveries of techniques that could vastly improve - and perhaps even save - lives around the globe.

Why haven't you done that?

 

[joe1776]

Do you not think it would be extremely, EXTREMELY beneficial to humanity for you to demonstrate that this phenomenon you experienced happened?

If I was able to do what you did, I would be straight to the nearest scientist to set up a controlled demonstration of what I could do. You could literally revolutionize human thinking about how the mind works and what it is capable of, and open up an entirely new field of credible scientific inquiry which could result in discoveries of techniques that could vastly improve - and perhaps even save - lives around the globe.

Why haven't you done that?

At the time, documenting the experience never occurred to me. Now, on reflection, I still wouldn't do it.

The key to proving telepathy to the satisfaction of mainstream science will be the invention of an advanced fMRI capable of seeing the visions in the receiver's brains because otherwise the controls on psi experiments are so high that two subjects, sender and receiver, identifying cards with remarkable results has already been done and the results trashed (Rhine at Duke, 1950). The methods couldn't pass the intense scrutiny. Ultimately, the autoganzfeld tests, which eliminates the involvement of staff was invented. Now positive results are challenged on the math, etc.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

At the time, documenting the experience never occurred to me. Now, on reflection, I still wouldn't do it.

The key to proving telepathy to the satisfaction of mainstream science will be the invention of an advanced fMRI capable of seeing the visions in the receiver's brains because otherwise the controls on psi experiments are so high that two subjects, sender and receiver, identifying cards with remarkable results has already been done and the results trashed (Rhine at Duke, 1950). The methods couldn't pass the intense scrutiny. Ultimately, the autoganzfeld tests, which eliminates the involvement of staff was invented. Now positive results are challenged on the math, etc.

These are just excuses. Your ability could literally change the world, and if you're able to do it reliably under reasonable experimental conditions then you have an obligation to try and do so. Why not try? You're not going to change anybody's mind by refusing to demonstrate what you can do - all you're going to do is prove to more people that such abilities don't exist, and potentially rob the world of an entire field of potential research which could forever alter human history and advancement. You'd be perhaps one of the most famous and notable people in the entire history of science, if not the world.

So, once again, why not do it?

 

[joe1776]

These are just excuses. Your ability could literally change the world, and if you're able to do it reliably under reasonable experimental conditions then you have an obligation to try and do so. Why not try? You're not going to change anybody's mind by refusing to demonstrate what you can do - all you're going to do is prove to more people that such abilities don't exist, and potentially rob the world of an entire field of potential research which could forever alter human history and advancement. You'd be perhaps one of the most famous and notable people in the entire history of science, if not the world.

So, once again, why not do it?

Face it. Your attempt at an argument is a loser. Your stubbornness isn't going to save it.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Face it. You attempt at an argument is a loser. Your stubbornness isn't going to save it.

What's wrong with you? You've just claimed to have an ability that would potentially change human history if demonstrated under reasonable experimental conditions, and the only reasons you've given for not demonstrating it is "other people tried and failed".

Why are you afraid to test what you claim under scientific conditions? Is your story actually true?

 

[charlie sc]

Why are you afraid to test what you claim under scientific conditions? Is your story actually true?

From what I recall from his story, in the other thread, it’s not replicable. It was a one time event.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

From what I recall from his story, in the other thread, it’s not replicable. It was a one time event.

From what they've written in this thread, they conducted the whole thing at the suggestion of another poster and seemed to talk as if reproducing the results would be fairly easy:

With my six year-old daughter sending from one room and me in another, she sent and I received visions of playing cards that allowed me to correctly identify 13 cards in a row before my daughter tired of the game and quit sending.

My daughter didn't see the visions in my head; my wife, standing behind my daughter saw the correct choices but she couldn't see the visions in my head.
There was no way I could prove to anyone that I hadn't simply guessed 13 cards in a row although the odds of doing that are something like 18 million to one.

In a scientific test, there would be no way to prove that I hadn't trained my daughter to cheat because the researchers couldn't see the visions in my head.

Doing 13 cards was very difficult. It was hard to distinguish spades and clubs and hearts and diamonds. Face cards were tough to distinguish. Counting the spots between a five and a six or a 7 and 8 was't easy.

52 cards in a row would be near impossible unless the sender and receiver had an especially strong connection.

The Zener cards are used in experiments. There are five cards, easily distinguishable. They would have been a snap for me and my daughter. But it isn't enough that a pair score well. The experiment has to be conducted in such a way that it is all done automatically (no other humans involved to eliminate the transference of data).

Someday, when an advanced f MRI can see the cards transmitted to the receiver's brain, telepathy will be accepted by mainstream science.

 

[joe1776]

From what I recall from his story, in the other thread, it’s not replicable. It was a one time event.

I don't know that we can't do it aqain. My daughter's an adult now and we've talked about it trying it again but never have. I've been told that children make good senders but I have no idea if that's true or not.

However, I've read several times that closely related people, especially identical twins, are more likely to have a telepathic connection.

 

[KT Shamim]

Ok, so it seems to this point that what you are saying is that an intelligence of some type is behind the universe.



Where does all this come from? Maybe this intelligence doesn't care about human beings at all. Maybe there was such an intelligence which no longer exists. Even if one was to accept the likelihood of the existence of such an intelligence, doesn't mean man has any additional knowledge about the nature of this intelligence.

Yes ... maybe ... and fundamentally based on a strong sense of gratitutde it is our duty that if our Creator and Sustainer does possibly exist we must search for Him and make the effort to find Him and thank Him.

The effort part ... ungrateful humans mostly.

 

[Thief]

I do not know of any way that the existence of God can be tested.

and likewise.....your denial

 

[Audie]

These are just excuses. Your ability could literally change the world, and if you're able to do it reliably under reasonable experimental conditions then you have an obligation to try and do so. Why not try? You're not going to change anybody's mind by refusing to demonstrate what you can do - all you're going to do is prove to more people that such abilities don't exist, and potentially rob the world of an entire field of potential research which could forever alter human history and advancement. You'd be perhaps one of the most famous and notable people in the entire history of science, if not the world.

So, once again, why not do it?

This so reminds me of a thing on "Coast to Coast"
with this guy who was a military / CIA trained remote
viewer.

So Art Bell asks him if he could find Bin Laden. the guy
says sure. Art of course asks, "Well, why dont you tell
the army where to find him then?"

The Viewer says, "I don't know why they
have not asked me to."

 

[Audie]

and likewise.....your denial

Why why WHY must you deny Batboy?