The Existential Threat of Ignorance and Stupidity in America

[Revoltingest]

And they invented....

Go (game) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even earlier. The Japanese basically took the game and made it their own in the 16th century. They had professional players then and no amateur could compete against them.
(Btw: the Chinese name for GO is Wei Chi, which approximately translates to "mind power". A much better name than "five".)

Go has more than 1 definition, & doesn't mean "5".
I speculate that "go" came from the Japanese "igo".
Actually, it's "wéiqí" in pin yin.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The fun thing is that I get what you are saying. But the price of ignorance and stupidity is different in Denmark, because it happens differently as for what is fought over.

I think I may actually understand what you are getting at here. But we'll see.

 

[Audie]

And they invented....

Go (game) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's nothing when you consider they invented me

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Eastern countries and people are perfectly capable of excelling in science without needing to go to or be in the West:





How China Became an Innovation Powerhouse

Also:

Why China is on the way to being a global innovator - IMD business school for management and leadership courses

As part of the transformation of the Chinese economy, attested by many elements of the recent news, China is fast transitioning from low cost manufacturing to a higher value innovation-led economy. Anticipating the next few years is fraught with difficulties. China is a huge and diverse country...

www.imd.org

The notion that innovation is somehow inherent to the West and that the East produces less of it due to one cultural difference or another seems to me both outdated and, if it was ever true before, no longer accurate. I'm not saying that you're claiming this, but I have encountered that argument before. Some people who claim that seem to overlook or forget that immigration to the West and "brain drain" have been a core part of the technological and scientific innovations that have taken place in immigrant hotspots such as the US, UK, and Canada.

Japan, China, India, Taiwan, and South Korea are now leading examples in how the West certainly doesn't have the market cornered on innovation and how societies that have collectivist leanings can and do innovate without needing to exalt individualism or downplay the importance of the collective.

Modern progress and scientific development owes a great deal to the work carried out during the Golden Age of Islam while Europe was huddled in relative intellectual darkness.

The US has benefited greatly from the influx of those seeking education here and sticking around afterwards to apply that.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That's nothing when you consider they invented me

But of course.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That's nothing when you consider they invented me

But of course.

Ignorance is different these days because bad information
is so easily disseminated. But this points to how relatively
difficult it was in earlier times to spread cromulent info.
I can recall in the 50s how religion held much more power
over people...how bigotry towards, blacks, Asians, gays,
& other "undesirables" was more rife & vicious.
Young'ns today aren't aware of what it was like then.
They know only what they see now, & believe it to
be unique in severity.

You make a good point and it is for such opinions that I make the threads that I do. I have ideas, but I don't like to let them fester in the dark by themselves. I like to get them out and let others look at them, kick the tires and see if it runs.

Even if we are not worse, with greater ignorance and stupidity, we can still do much better in education and the presentation of information than has been done. Look at the people that are our chief proponents of nonsense. It isn't as if they are a brain trust. Some of them are downright whacko.

 

[Heyo]

That's nothing when you consider they invented me

:Winner:

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I think I may actually understand what you are getting at here. But we'll see.

The short brutal versions is that theism can cause a set of problems, which only overlaps in a limited sense with a secular overall ideology of the idea of the good, healthy and productive life. In other words the stupidity as sometimes found in theism plays out different for the stupidity in how some people claim truth, evidence, knowledge as so on for the good, healthy and productive life.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The short brutal versions is that theism can cause a set of problems, which only overlaps in a limited sense with a secular overall ideology of the idea of the good, healthy and productive life. In other words the stupidity as sometimes found in theism plays out different for the stupidity in how some people claim truth, evidence, knowledge as so on for the good, healthy and productive life.

Would I be correct in understanding that you mean the conflict between ideologies breeds dissent? That some focus on things they believe are true at the expense of what they could learn to be most correct or not.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Go has more than 1 definition, & doesn't mean "5".
I speculate that "go" came from the Japanese "igo".
Actually, it's "wéiqí" in pin yin.

It's also a song.

Though I'm not sure how the video story fits. But that is often the case of music videos.

Sometimes a good luck at culture can show us the stupid things we prioritize. Even in bands and music that I like.

 

[Nakosis]

Bobby Azarian is a cognitive neuroscientist and science journalist whose articles I have found interesting and useful. Recently, I came across a couple of his articles dealing with what appears to be a growing popularity of ignorance and increasing stupidity that Azarian considers and existential threat to modern society.

A neuroscientist explains the problem of ignorance and how we can fight it
"Being ignorant about a particular topic isn’t shameful. None of us know everything — that’s an impossible task. Ignorance does not come from a lack of education, but an unwillingness to seek education. Ignorance is a consequence of refusing to change your beliefs when reality is constantly contradicting them."

Cognitive neuroscientist explains why stupidity is an existential threat to America
"Stupidity is a consequence of a failure to be aware of one’s own limitations, and this type of cognitive failure has a scientific name: the Dunning-Kruger effect."

These two subjects are of much interest to me, considering the proliferation of conspiracy theories that people are using as the basis for decision making and the almost gleeful celebration of ignorance and near rejection of education as "elitist" in some quarters. Couple that with a growing population of those rejecting expert opinion in favor of their own unearned expertise and I think that we do have a growing threat to our future.

We are all ignorant to a degree relevant to the the subject under consideration, but many people seem to no longer question anything that fits with the model they live by regardless of how irrational or ridiculous it might be. If it feeds into what they want to believe, it is uncommon to see the unbelievable believed. At the same time we see a growing number of people that assume subject matter expertise of subjects they don't seem to know much or anything about. How can we, as a nation build on a foundation like that? We lose progress and actually begin to regress culturally, educationally, scientifically as well as competitively on the international field. There appears to be no upside to ignorant and stupid outside of politics.

I'm including a link to a review explaining the Dunning-Kruger effect in more detail, but essentially, it is that many do not know what they do not know.
https://www.area-c54.it/public/dunning - kruger effect.pdf

Have you consider that "ignorance" and Dunning-Kruger might also affect the experts you listen to?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Have you consider that "ignorance" and Dunning-Kruger might also affect the experts you listen to?

Is that relevant to the actual OP? If so, how do you know that?

 

[Revoltingest]

That's nothing when you consider they invented me

You rank your importance with go (wei qi)?
A prize indeed you are!

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That's nothing when you consider they invented me

And then they rested. Their work was done.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Have you consider that "ignorance" and Dunning-Kruger might also affect the experts you listen to?

We are all ignorant of something. I had a discussion today about the disposal of lithium with a chemist that was far more knowledgeable of the chemistry of lithium than I am. But I do have some knowledge and experience enough to recognize my own ignorance and their expertise.

Since experts are already experts in their fields, at what point do they lose the plot?

I'm not claiming the ignorance of specific groups other than politicians, but experts have a body of work to review. Credentials and affiliations that can be reviewed. Scientific experts are under the constant surveillance of their peers which can be reviewed.

There is nothing preventing an expert from failing to see their own ignorance on a subject, especially one outside their field and they could feel their expertise in one field means expertise in all fields. That has happened. But it is up to us to find the best information we can and not just accept expertise without consideration. Which I think is part of the problem and one that has always been the case. Picking experts that aren't the best and for reasons that have nothing to do with their expertise. I just think that issue is bigger today, because the ignorance is much more widely available. Though @Revoltingest has a great point that in the past, expertise and valid knowledge were not so widely available as these things are today. At one point, it wasn't just bad information spreading, it was that the good information wasn't spreading any faster than the bad and may less fast.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Is that relevant to the actual OP? If so, how do you know that?

I'm not sure. Seems like a separate issue, but I gave an answer anyway.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Go has more than 1 definition, & doesn't mean "5".
I speculate that "go" came from the Japanese "igo".
Actually, it's "wéiqí" in pin yin.

ご is the Japanese Hiragana for 5, and indeed is pronounced and Romanized as go.

 

[Revoltingest]

ご is the Japanese Hiragana for 5, and indeed is pronounced and Romanized as go

You claim claim more than coincidence in naming the game "go" in English?
In japanese it's "igo".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You claim claim more than coincidence in naming the game "go" in English?
In japanese it's "igo".

I don't claim to know how English came up with anything it says from Nippon.
But I did notice Spanish also calls it Japan.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't claim to know how English came up with anything it says from Nippon.
But I did notice Spanish also calls it Japan.

There is a game, "go moku".
It involves getting 5 stones in a row.
But it's unrelated to go, other than being playable on a go board.