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The "F word" for those who hate the word "feminist"

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
This doesn't apply to all of feminism though.
It's too big a tent to generalize that much.
(I can only speak of Americastan though.)
It's divisive to make it about movements being starkly "good" or "bad".
(And yeah, I know...some feminists are guilty of this too.)
OK...... but ever since I came on RF my perceptions of it, as shown in my first three posts, have grown to what they are now.

There's merit to be found all over the place....MRM, feminism, egalitarianism, humanism....even within those evil Pubs & Dems. Shocking, eh?
Yes..... What is MRM? I googled it and could choose between a Hungarian Political Movement of a space mission.... ?
But there is no comparison between Feminism and, say, Egalitarianism. Humanism or Egalitarianism are not groups, or badges, more to do with intangible concepts. You cannot attack them any more than one could attack 'love' or 'integrity' etc.... They just 'are'
Feminism reminds me now of a militia, but one which cherry picks its issues, leaving serious stuff by the wayside.

For me the contentious issue has been which of the many banners I'll adopt.
The reason I started the thread about why I don't identify as feminist was cuz in
discussing the new DIR, no one was willing to offer a definition to allow inclusion.
But they made it clear that one had to identify as a "feminist". My favoring gender
equality was insufficient to join. So as soon as it became purple, I was pointedly
told to leave. I
I could not identify as feminist either, but once I made that decision I was gone, before the purple was ever created. I really tried..... but... No!

thought an explanation for not joining seemed in order. But some
feminists heatedly objected to the subject, & the thread was closed.
Heatedly objected....... There are two words that I associate with Feminism now..... 'Irritatingly prickly'. Most women around here (I carried out a survey in early 2013) used the word inappropriate (for them).
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Actually, your points were only in response to the videos posted in the OP.
Nonsense..... My F word for that was FACILE. All the pother F words were connected to other issues. You answered none. .

I thought they were poorly argued, in that you provided nothing but strawman responses.
Were you aware that the 2010 legislation was written under the guidance of Harriet Harman? Now, how does she identify herself again?

What a disgraceful choice you made. This ends the debate for me, because to even include that name as an example is indicative of how little you study before making your choices. There was a huge row over Harriet Harman's decisions about child pornography, decisions that came back to bight very hard. Now you just research this a little more deeply and then decide whether you would like to include that name amongst your own following.......
I am out of this individual conversation in the thread........ too angry to continue safely....

Rihttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/4949555/Harriet-Harman-under-attack-over-bid-to-water-down-child-pornography-law.html

HOME»NEWS»POLITICS»LABOUR
Harriet Harman under attack over bid to water down child pornography law
Harriet Harman’s political judgement has been called into question after it emerged that she once advocated the watering down of child pornography laws.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Oh, I disagree...the 2 parts are quite compatible.
For something to be not rare is not the same thing as being a majority.

I don't say most are problematic. But a few vocal ones do have a large public presence.

What's your point, then? I can't think of a single movement or belief system that doesn't have its share of problematic vocal supporters. That just means feminism is like any other movement in this regard.

Aye, there are some fine feminists here. But feminist culture is a diverse thing which is defined by all, & not just the exemplary ones, or the fringe which reflects my beliefs.

And yet feminism has been criticized on this forum (not necessarily by you) as condoning "man-hating" based on the views of a vocal minority of feminists. I wonder why that is.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Oh really..... you know your way about this site. Plx dig up a Purple Femmie thread that has addressed this issue in depth.

Is it your point that because there's no thread in the Feminist Only section about FGM, feminists don't care about it? I suppose that means you don't care about famines, war, or natural disasters unless you start threads about them here. Do you see how ridiculous that premise is?

That's going to be big.
I will need a sleepless night to prepare this one. You might get lucky 'cos this is the hottest night of the year so far.
But while I wait for sleeplessness, plx dig up any purple Femmie thread that addressed the issue of Female Bishops in Christianity... this would be pertinent since some Feminist sites are claiming victory for what the C of E Synod voted for this week. That is so deceitful.

Another pointless "test." Thanks, but no thanks.

No..... no.... Gender Balance is being achieved in some countries through EQUALITY being more widely accepted.

That's right: equality, i.e., one of the main principles of feminism.

Yes...... But brave ladies demonstrating and chaining themselves to gates so that they could not be removed..... 90 years ago..... is not going to fuel modern day Feminism, is it..... it's fuelling modern day egalitarianism.... and those folks can be thrown off your Feminist purple section...... for shame!

Okay, please list some of the areas in which the egalitarian movement (if such a thing even exists) is active and list some names of prominent members and supporters of it.

.... not true! The very fact that Feminists can make themselves exclusive shows that the breaking down of bigotry is due to a much more powerful and larger influence. I don't mind feminists having an additional interest in female equality.... I just wish that they would get on with it 'hand-in-hand' with the Big Force in the world... Eggies and Humanists... instead of pushing them away and then trying to grasp laurels due to others.

How are feminists being exclusive?
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I think I've covered it pretty well in other threads. Patriarchy, privilege, rape culture, gendered violence, misogyny, misandry, sexism, etc..., I'm not going to go into too much detail because I've talked at length about many of these subjects in other threads. I think the feminist ideology concerning these topics and more tends to be very dogmatic, exaggerated, and sometimes patently false.

Even this conversation is just another part of feminist dogma. Just like a religion you are trying to get me to believe it's just some simple philosophy that no good person would disagree with. Like Islam is just about peace and Christianity is just about treating people like you want to be treated, feminism is just about equality. Riiight :sarcastic.

Explain how feminism is "dogmatic, exaggerated, and sometimes patently false." You made a charge against it, so you should be able to support what you said with evidence.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
What's your point, then? I can't think of a single movement or belief system that doesn't have its share of problematic vocal supporters. That just means feminism is like any other movement in this regard.
I don't claim it's different. Certainly, organizations I belong to have regrettable elements too.
I have no single point...I've just discussed my impressions of feminism at length.

And yet feminism has been criticized on this forum (not necessarily by you) as condoning "man-hating" based on the views of a vocal minority of feminists. I wonder why that is.
Some people notice that element, & place too much weight (IMO) on what they notice.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Nonsense..... My F word for that was FACILE. All the pother F words were connected to other issues. You answered none. .



What a disgraceful choice you made. This ends the debate for me, because to even include that name as an example is indicative of how little you study before making your choices. There was a huge row over Harriet Harman's decisions about child pornography, decisions that came back to bight very hard. Now you just research this a little more deeply and then decide whether you would like to include that name amongst your own following.......
I am out of this individual conversation in the thread........ too angry to continue safely....

Cool. I touched a nerve. After your insistence that the 2010 Equality Act was the sole mastermind of egalitarians and feminists were nowhere to be found.

You're just ticked because your own source didn't back up your own claim.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Is it your point that because there's no thread in the Feminist Only section about FGM, feminists don't care about it? I suppose that means you don't care about famines, war, or natural disasters unless you start threads about them here. Do you see how ridiculous that premise is?
No.
When FGH was introduced into a thread about rape and serious sexual offences it was member who posts in the Fem Purple (ei a feminist) who told me:
Not relevant. Startt a separate thread. Doesn't happen here.
But don't worry about that. There are not many serious issues threded in that section anyway. I listed the threads earlier, and, well, golly gosh....

Another pointless "test." Thanks, but no thanks.
No probs. Thank goodness I never got to do it.

That's right: equality, i.e., one of the main principles of feminism.
No you don't..... selective equality, please. Selected issues.
And, by the way, I support Gender Equality and Gender balance, so plx don't try and separate me from either.

Okay, please list some of the areas in which the egalitarian movement (if such a thing even exists) is active and list some names of prominent members and supporters of it.
Oh you are fun..... remember I offered to make a list for you? Luckily my credit ran out and I could not do it.
You (above) wrote about that offer :
Another pointless "test." Thanks, but no thanks.
........... and now you want me to make,.... another list! ??
You think that egalitarianism is a club? You think you can join it?
I think that you do not understand ........ You might just as well have asked to list areas of active movement and the names of those who support..... .... any motivating force. You might as well ask for a list of successes caused by .... Care.... or any sense of fairness.
Eg is not a club, but a motivation....
Although different in nature, Humanism is similar in that it is not a group of folks but a quality or motivating force.

How are feminists being exclusive?
You must be joking. I do not believe that you need to ask this.
You honestly think that Feminism is open ?
I have read about exclusions (here and there) over the decades.
Let's take RF as an example. It has an exclusive (purple) section. Please don't tell me why..... you asked a question, I gave you an answer.

I don't mind that....... I have only entered one purple once, ever, not knowing, soon after joining. I don't criticise religions, faiths, and other groups from threading in purple... but when a movement that pretends big E Equality threads in purple, you know it ain't.
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
BREAKING NEWS

....because FGM has been mentioned several times in recent pages, I suggest that it is pertinent and relevant to publish news about new policies in the UK to stamp this practice out. He we go:- This copied from BBC 8am News....


British Deputy Prime Minister unveils new training:-

Teachers, doctors and social workers will be given extra training to identify and help girls who might be at risk of becoming victims of female genital mutilation (FGM).

The measures will see new guidance for professionals become part of compulsory training in public sector organisations.

The deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg, will set out a package of measures to tackle FGM at a summit on Tuesday.

The plan will involve supporting a small network of "community champions" to encourage volunteers who want to provide help in areas affected by FGM.

Clegg will tell the Girl Summit: "Female genital mutilation is one of the oldest and the most extreme ways in which societies have sought to control the lives and bodies of generations of young women and girls.

"We're currently failing thousands of girls and must act now to help put a stop to FGM.


....that is how heavily this subject has been discussed in the UK, which is why I have recently introduced it so many times on RF. I am sad that it did not receive more coverage on relevant RF threads.
 

s2a

Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJPT_U97lNs

Laci Green is one of my favorite youtubers and puts it really well. All the time feminists such as myself hear people hating on the movement or on the word itself because of the negative connotations that have been attached to it by it's opponents or the idea that feminism is "wrong" simply because it focuses on the issue of gender specifically. Hopefully this will help shine some light on the issue and show that feminism is not a dirty word at all.

please note, this has nothing to do with people who hate labels or the idea of labels in general. This is simply a rebuttal in response to those who hate or misunderstand this particular label.

Maybe I'm just a step away from our earlier cave dweller brethren, but I've never quite understood why 50% of our species is often relegated to little more than procreation.

As a male, I enjoy the company of wimmen, and all their fun soft parts too. :)

I really no longer embrace the title/moniker of "feminism", as I prefer the notion of equality under the law. I believe I've heard of that concept from time to time. :)

Sure, some "cultures" continue to subjugate, suppress, rape, "castrate," or even murder females simply because of their carrying about all those dirty, nasty, enticing "lady parts"...but, they are unpleasantly ignorant and wish to maintain the ideal of men always in control and in charge of...well, whatever.

Heck fire, even in the good ole US of A...some misogynists demand that unwanted pregnancy serve as "punishment" for all that dirty, dirty, nasty, dirty, you know...sex.

If birth control use obviates 90%+ of "punishment", then what comes next?

Planet of the Apes.

You go girls. ;)
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
It really gets old when people of like mind want to have a pleasant conversation only to be disrupted by challenges.

Thus the need for the purple DIR.

Every group needs a santuary some times so not to be side tracked.
 
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