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The Fallen Angel

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Neither satan nor his angels are the sons of God. The angels of satan are those that think to highly of themself. No son of God would ever do this, as every son of God knows his true stature.
They are technically sons of God (and are called so in the bible) because they were made by God -but are disobedient and in error -not acting and thinking as sons of God should -so, in that way, not sons of God.

At one time, they did not do this -then they did. (perfect in all thy ways, until iniquity was found in you)
 
Neither of satan nor his angels are the sons of God. The angels of satan are those that think to highly of themself. No son of God would ever do this, as every son of God knows his true stature.
They are technically sons of God (and are called so in the bible) because they were made by God -but are disobedient and in error -not acting and thinking as sons of God should -so, in that way, not sons of God.

At one time, they did not do this -then they did.

A son of God shares God's nature of thought. one called satan is one that uses fallacies in an attempt to justify their position.

again, neither satan nor his angels are the sons of God.

Not even abraham or john are those God called sons, he called them Friend instead.
 
They are technically sons of God (and are called so in the bible) because they were made by God -but are disobedient and in error -not acting and thinking as sons of God should -so, in that way, not sons of God.

At one time, they did not do this -then they did. (perfect in all thy ways, until iniquity was found in you)

Satan and his angels walk in darkness. Those of the truth are in the light.
 
They are technically sons of God (and are called so in the bible) because they were made by God -but are disobedient and in error -not acting and thinking as sons of God should -so, in that way, not sons of God.

At one time, they did not do this -then they did. (perfect in all thy ways, until iniquity was found in you)

Woe unto them that call belief truth and truth belief, that put darkness for light and light for darkness.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Woe unto them that call belief truth and truth belief, that put darkness for light and light for darkness.
Right -which is why the disobedient son of God known as Satan will be laid before the kings of the Earth.

As one can be a son by lineage and simultaneously not a son by thought and action, there is no reason for contention.

I get your point -but I am not incorrect -it's just a technicality -not worth striving over words.
 
Right -which is why the disobedient son of God known as Satan will be laid before the kings of the Earth.

There are sons of God, friends of the family, and those not of the truth which are called satan.

You are putting darkness for light. none of the sons of God nor friends of the family are those God calls satan.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
There are sons of God, friends of the family, and those not of the truth which are called satan.

You are putting darkness for light. none of the sons of God nor friends of the family are those God calls satan.
No -you are falsely accusing me of doing so.

2 Tim 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 
No -you are falsely accusing me of doing so.

2 Tim 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I do not falsely accuse anyone, ever, it is not the nature of any of the sons of God to do that. ears to hear and hear not.

You know God is eternal, right? from this you know he has no father, right? ergo God is a *******, right?

Pure religion and undefiled before God is this; visit the ******* and holy ****, keep thyself unspotted from the world.

Being that God cannot lie, the only bad words are words used in lies. False witnesses are abomination to God.
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
Haha. Okay okay. I submit.


Please show us what verses you base the above upon. If, you are going to make your accusation against God other than a personal opinion you must provide evidence for your way of thinking and not personal opinion. Something which usually never comes. If in court would your accusation stick and provide a sentence?

the verse is in the op. It’s how God forbids knowledge good & evil, and mankind fell for it, but in that verse God says you have become as one of us to know of good & evil, so are the angels of Heaven fallen.

Luke 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
 
They are technically sons of God (and are called so in the bible)

maybe what is true is you do not actually have an understanding of the scriptures? but let's test. Discernment of the scriptures is testable, you know that, right?

Christ said to live by every word of God. In his words he gives many hints as to exactly how many words of God there are.

Do you know how many words of God there are?
 
the verse is in the op. It’s how God forbids knowledge good & evil, and mankind fell for it, but in that verse God says you have become as one of us to know of good & evil, so are the angels of Heaven fallen.

Luke 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

God doesn't forbid the knowledge of good and evil, he forbids those that say they have the knowledge of good and evil without also holding the tree of life.

you make two lists. one list of things you know you label good. one list of things you do not know you label evil.

check with life. for one to say they know a thing they do not actually know, is immoral. it is what it means to call evil good. For one to not check life itself and to say they know a thing they do not actually know, is unforgivable.
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
maybe what is true is you do not actually have an understanding of the scriptures? but let's test. Discernment of the scriptures is testable, you know that, right?

Christ said to live by every word of God. In his words he gives many hints as to exactly how many words of God there are.

Do you know how many words of God there are?

There are an infinite yet not endless amount of words, starting with love.
 
There are an infinite yet not endless amount of words, starting with love.

only one that is intellecually honest with self and all others in matters of reality is one that does understand and reflect true love.

for one to be intellectually honest with self and all others in all matters of reality, is one that does have love one for another even as thyself. it's what it means to have the Godhead bodily.

what it means to have the Godhead bodily means one thing to God, being that God cannot lie.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
maybe what is true is you do not actually have an understanding of the scriptures? but let's test. Discernment of the scriptures is testable, you know that, right?

Christ said to live by every word of God. In his words he gives many hints as to exactly how many words of God there are.

Do you know how many words of God there are?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Let me clear up a few things here....

Before the fall they could not die.
Since mankind were created as mortals, then they could die....anything that deprived them of oxygen, food or water could kill them. God made his free willed creatures (both in heaven and on earth) mortal....IOW, there was no natural cause of death, but continued life depended on continued obedience. Continuing life was always conditional, right from the beginning....obey God and live...disobey God and die. There was only one rule and they broke it....but they were not the first to disobey their Creator. The first rebel was responsible for tempting the humans into disobedience. This meant that rebellion needed to be dealt with in both realms, with one single object lesson.

After the fall death came in many ways and separation from God in all manners was to exist for mankind. Shown by the many different beliefs and atheism too.
After the fall, God allowed the humans to 'reap what they had sown'. Once the 'genie was out of the bottle' (humans had disobeyed that one command and invited the death penalty on themselves) there was no sending it back. Once a knowledge of good and evil was theirs, (instead of being left in God's jurisdiction, where it belonged) their lives changed forever from that day forward. A knowledge of evil soon turned into evil deeds....and within one generation, a murder was committed.

Putting that great weight on Adam if you were the first man whom would you believe. Do you believe it is a lie in the book of Genesis where the serpent/snake is punished ?14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
What the verse tells us it that the serpent was an animal..
What it tells us is that the devil used a serpent, but we have no idea how. Was the devil able to materialize in the form of a snake, or did he use the snake like a ventriloquist uses a dummy? It simply doesn't say. So if the snake was metaphorical in that instance, then perhaps the sentence was metaphorical as well. Why would God punish a literal snake for something an rebel angel had done? All snakes crawl on their belly. :shrug:

Where in the bible has God's Sovereign right determined good and evil. The bible has always revealed God revealing to mankind the truth of right and wrong. Before the law came man was not convicted of sin. When God gave man the Law the first commandment was to love God and to have no other god and in truth he told them there was no other God. King James Bible
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me
:
The mere fact that God had decided to keep that knowledge to himself proves that he did not want the humans to make that determination for themselves. It was not to be part of the terms of their tenancy here on this earth. God would decide what is good and what is evil, and protect his children accordingly....but they chose to know these things for themselves, and I'm sure it was a regretted decision considering what they lost that day.....their lives changed forever and not in a good way.

Reading through your post makes God sound human and worse still to have human traits like incompetence or that man is capable of controlling his own destiny.
HUH? How so? We are created in God's image...he is not created in ours. In our fallen condition we are a poor representation of what God originally purposed. Yet we are in full control of our own actions so God holds us accountable for the decisions we make...just like he did with Adam and his wife. If you know what to do and you don't do it, it is a sin.

Do you believe what you write is your opinion or really reflects an all powerful God who is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.
Since God had a purpose in putting us here, and a rebel spirit forced him to make a detour, whatever happens will take us back to God's original purpose...he is not thwarted or defeated by his own creation. He is 'All Powerful' and 'All Knowing' but he is not 'Omnipresent'. He has a location remember...? "Our Father who art in Heaven..."
And his angels serve him in that realm....humans were to serve him down here on this earth.

What it does not explain is why God being omnipresent allowed Adam and Eve to make their choices when what they did was ultimately against Gods will for them? God having told the end from the beginning proves that in everything a man says or does, that Gods will, will still be done.
Free will was never absolute for obvious reasons....God had to be able to curb the abuse of free will should it occur. To set limits for free will was his Sovereign right, but the first rebel was not human.

God can always see "from the beginning...the end" (Isaiah 46:10) but with free willed beings, he will not force them to comply with his wishes....it has to be their choice to do so.....but he can reserve the right to remove those who cause harm or trouble for others. He allowed the humans to serve the 'god' they chose to obey, to show them where abuse of free will would take them. But all will be set right in the end....all that happened in Genesis is undone in Revelation.

If, Satan was a cherub what difference would it make to Gods will being done? Satan made the same mistake.... he thought killing Jesus off, he would stop the will of God. But really Gods will for Jesus was centred around knowing what Satan would do and failing to see, as with Adam God knows all the consequences and he works all things to the good of mankind.
God can always foresee the future outcome of everything, but he will not interfere with the activities of humans unless something interferes with his purpose.....then he will step in, like he did in Noah's day.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
A son of God shares God's nature of thought. one called satan is one that uses fallacies in an attempt to justify their position.

again, neither satan nor his angels are the sons of God.

Not even abraham or john are those God called sons, he called them Friend instead.

How about Ephraim?
 
Let me clear up a few things here....


Since mankind were created as mortals, then they could die....anything that deprived them of oxygen, food or water could kill them. God made his free willed creatures (both in heaven and on earth) mortal....IOW, there was no natural cause of death, but continued life depended on continued obedience. Continuing life was always conditional, right from the beginning....obey God and live...disobey God and die. There was only one rule and they broke it....but they were not the first to disobey their Creator. The first rebel was responsible for tempting the humans into disobedience. This meant that rebellion needed to be dealt with in both realms, with one single object lesson.

Assumption in part. but then we can resolve some of your misconceptions. He made all the creatures in heaven immortal but we see this that they never die even in the future. Jude 1.
King James Bible
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
The law did not exist in the time of Adam he was guilty of sin because his actions by not believing what God said was his sin. Even after judgement the results are eternal.

The reason mankind fell through Adam and not through Eve was simply this. Adam was told directly by God himself not to eat from the tree but Eve heard it from Adam. I think this enough for now. Please research these things and the rest of your post should be supplied with Answers.


After the fall, God allowed the humans to 'reap what they had sown'. Once the 'genie was out of the bottle' (humans had disobeyed that one command and invited the death penalty on themselves) there was no sending it back. Once a knowledge of good and evil was theirs, (instead of being left in God's jurisdiction, where it belonged) their lives changed forever from that day forward. A knowledge of evil soon turned into evil deeds....and within one generation, a murder was committed.




What it tells us is that the devil used a serpent, but we have no idea how. Was the devil able to materialize in the form of a snake, or did he use the snake like a ventriloquist uses a dummy? It simply doesn't say. So if the snake was metaphorical in that instance, then perhaps the sentence was metaphorical as well. Why would God punish a literal snake for something an rebel angel had done? All snakes crawl on their belly. :shrug:


The mere fact that God had decided to keep that knowledge to himself proves that he did not want the humans to make that determination for themselves. It was not to be part of the terms of their tenancy here on this earth. God would decide what is good and what is evil, and protect his children accordingly....but they chose to know these things for themselves, and I'm sure it was a regretted decision considering what they lost that day.....their lives changed forever and not in a good way.


HUH? How so? We are created in God's image...he is not created in ours. In our fallen condition we are a poor representation of what God originally purposed. Yet we are in full control of our own actions so God holds us accountable for the decisions we make...just like he did with Adam and his wife. If you know what to do and you don't do it, it is a sin.


Since God had a purpose in putting us here, and a rebel spirit forced him to make a detour, whatever happens will take us back to God's original purpose...he is not thwarted or defeated by his own creation. He is 'All Powerful' and 'All Knowing' but he is not 'Omnipresent'. He has a location remember...? "Our Father who art in Heaven..."
And his angels serve him in that realm....humans were to serve him down here on this earth.


Free will was never absolute for obvious reasons....God had to be able to curb the abuse of free will should it occur. To set limits for free will was his Sovereign right, but the first rebel was not human.

God can always see "from the beginning...the end" (Isaiah 46:10) but with free willed beings, he will not force them to comply with his wishes....it has to be their choice to do so.....but he can reserve the right to remove those who cause harm or trouble for others. He allowed the humans to serve the 'god' they chose to obey, to show them where abuse of free will would take them. But all will be set right in the end....all that happened in Genesis is undone in Revelation.


God can always foresee the future outcome of everything, but he will not interfere with the activities of humans unless something interferes with his purpose.....then he will step in, like he did in Noah's day.[/QUOTE]
 
How about Ephraim?

i just looked into this only a bit. but from what i gather at quick glance he's of one of the multitudes of the daughters of lot.

Ephraim's a stick, which means one silent in the face of knowledge, like peter deny's the truth thrice. he searches the waters, ladies, for a daughter of God to marry into the family
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
i just looked into this only a bit. but from what i gather at quick glance he's of one of the multitudes of the daughters of lot.

Ephraim's a stick, which means one silent in the face of knowledge, like peter deny's the truth thrice. he searches the waters, ladies, for a daughter of God to marry into the family

So this is the type of discussion you are looking for? If you get some pleasure from it, its good for your. At least you have found your calling.

Have a great day.
 
So this is the type of discussion you are looking for? If you get some pleasure from it, its good for your. At least you have found your calling.

Have a great day.

use a red letter kjv. follow the bread from adam through the OT. that's how to reconcile the geanology of joseph and christ, follow the sprinking of water from eve through keyturah to reconcile the geanology of mary. when a man is found sprkinling water that means he's the father. no actual sprinkling ot water is going on except for ladies breaking their water and children being born.
 
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