amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
and you can read what people like earl butz and sonny perdue think of that
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The Feds raid Amish farm, charge farmer with $30000 fine.
- Thread starter Wildswanderer
- Start date
and you can read what people like earl butz and sonny perdue think of that
Many cultures in history have had laws that said as much. Many have not. It seems obvious to me that we should, except that our laws do not recognize different classes of people. And I'd rather that the laws didn't in any way recognize two different classes; because that would eventually work against the poor rather than for. I don't trust the courts that much.
People have their opinions.
What evidence is there that this raid was about the small
size of the farm rather than the obvious raw milk issue?
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
Sure people have their opinions. When powerful people have opinions though, I tend to think about what they are saying a little bit. Property is finite, and there are now supply chain issues. The amish obviously aren't working big scale
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The neoLiberal argument that consumers are responsible and knowledgeable is highly absurd.
Or, the morgues are full of covidiots who knew the risks and all that. That one was especially bad for other people.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
That is simply not true, so let me recommend you go by the science versus right-wing politics.
Milk is an excellent medium for microbial growth,[17] and when it is stored at ambient temperature bacteria and other pathogens soon proliferate.[18] The US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) says improperly handled raw milk is responsible for nearly three times more hospitalizations than any other food-borne disease source, making it one of the world's most dangerous food products.[19][20] Diseases prevented by pasteurization can include tuberculosis, brucellosis, diphtheria, scarlet fever, and Q-fever; it also kills the harmful bacteria Salmonella, Listeria, Yersinia, Campylobacter, Staphylococcus aureus, and Escherichia coli O157:H7,[21][22] among others... -- Pasteurization - Wikipedia
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
That's why you handle in correctly. I know from experience not what the internet tells me.
Secret Chief
Vetted Member
Or indeed This Fast Food Is Full Of Crap.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Once again, science proves you wrong.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
"Better safe than sorry" is the smart move as history has shown us on matters like this.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And according o this article it was not the milk that caused his farm to be shut down:
The Daily Beast
Rats, that will not link properly using my tablet. Oh wait! You can see the story.
The Daily Beast
Rats, that will not link properly using my tablet. Oh wait! You can see the story.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And need I remind people that the source of this article was Tucker Carlson?
Tucker Carlson has a defense named after him. The Fox lawyers in a lawsuit argued that Carlson's stories are so ridiculous that no one can believe them:
Home Page Top Stories
Dang it! Okay:
Let's quote from the article:
"Now comes the claim that you can't expect to literally believe the words that come out of Carlson's mouth. And that assertion is not coming from Carlson's critics. It's being made by a federal judge in the Southern District of New York and by Fox News's own lawyers in defending Carlson against accusations of slander. It worked, by the way."
You can easily find articles on it. Simply search for the "Tucker Carlson Defense".
Tucker Carlson has a defense named after him. The Fox lawyers in a lawsuit argued that Carlson's stories are so ridiculous that no one can believe them:
Home Page Top Stories
Dang it! Okay:
Let's quote from the article:
"Now comes the claim that you can't expect to literally believe the words that come out of Carlson's mouth. And that assertion is not coming from Carlson's critics. It's being made by a federal judge in the Southern District of New York and by Fox News's own lawyers in defending Carlson against accusations of slander. It worked, by the way."
You can easily find articles on it. Simply search for the "Tucker Carlson Defense".
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
As usual, Tucker left some important details out of the story.
Like for instance, he failed to mention that the farm had several listeria outbreaks , which killed at least one person and sickened others.
"Federal officials announced today that two people, one in California who recovered and one in Florida who died, were sickened in 2014 by Listeria bacteria “closely related genetically” to a strain isolated in samples of Miller’s Organic raw chocolate milk collected in November 2015 in California. “Collaborative investigative efforts of state, local, and federal public health and regulatory officials indicate that raw milk produced by Miller’s Organic Farm in Bird-In-Hand, PA, is the likely source of this outbreak,” according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The raw milk samples, collected at the annual International Raw Milk Symposium in Anaheim, CA, by the Food and Drug Administration in November 2015, were linked this January via DNA matching to the two people who were sickened in 2014, according to the CDC outbreak announcement. “Because Listeria was recently found in raw milk produced by Miller’s Organic Farm, we are concerned that contaminated raw milk and other raw dairy products from this company could still be on the market and make people sick. This investigation is ongoing,” the CDC reported.
Listeria cases, including one death, linked via DNA to raw milk
"Both cases required hospitalization. While the case from California was able to recover from the illness and eventually leave the hospital, the outbreak victim in Florida died as a result of the infection caused by ingesting contaminated raw milk. ...
... Tests run by public health officials on samples of Miller’s Organic Farm raw milk collected in November 2015 generated results that confirmed the presence of Listeria bacteria in the product. In January, the FDA conducted testing on samples of raw chocolate milk produced by Miller’s Farm and again confirmed the presence of Listeria in the raw milk tested."
Positive Raw Milk Listeria Test Reveals Fatal 2012 Outbreak
"For years, Miller has refused to abide by basic food laws, even after the raw milk produced on his farm was suspected to have killed someone."
Conservatives milk story from Amish Farm tied to fatal listeria outbreak - Daily France News
"Although the two illnesses occurred in 2014, the source of these illnesses wasn’t known until January 29, 2016, when the U.S. Food and Drug Administration informed CDC that whole genome sequencing of Listeria bacteria from raw chocolate milk produced by Miller’s Organic Farm showed that it was closely related genetically to Listeria bacteria from the two ill people described above."
Multistate Outbreak of Listeriosis Linked to Raw Milk Produced by Miller’s Organic Farm in Pennsylvania | Listeria | CDC
And now, some info on Listeria:
"Listeriosis is a serious infection usually caused by eating food contaminated with the bacterium Listeria monocytogenes. An estimated 1,600 people get listeriosis each year, and about 260 die. The infection is most likely to sicken pregnant women and their newborns, adults aged 65 or older, and people with weakened immune systems."
Listeria (Listeriosis) | Listeria | CDC
"If the infection spreads to your nervous system, it’s more serious. This severe form, called listeriosis, is fatal for 20% of people who have it. This happens most often with the very young, the very old, and people with weakened immune systems. "
What Is Listeria?
Sorry but you don't get to sell products that poison and kill people.
Like for instance, he failed to mention that the farm had several listeria outbreaks , which killed at least one person and sickened others.
"Federal officials announced today that two people, one in California who recovered and one in Florida who died, were sickened in 2014 by Listeria bacteria “closely related genetically” to a strain isolated in samples of Miller’s Organic raw chocolate milk collected in November 2015 in California. “Collaborative investigative efforts of state, local, and federal public health and regulatory officials indicate that raw milk produced by Miller’s Organic Farm in Bird-In-Hand, PA, is the likely source of this outbreak,” according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The raw milk samples, collected at the annual International Raw Milk Symposium in Anaheim, CA, by the Food and Drug Administration in November 2015, were linked this January via DNA matching to the two people who were sickened in 2014, according to the CDC outbreak announcement. “Because Listeria was recently found in raw milk produced by Miller’s Organic Farm, we are concerned that contaminated raw milk and other raw dairy products from this company could still be on the market and make people sick. This investigation is ongoing,” the CDC reported.
Listeria cases, including one death, linked via DNA to raw milk
"Both cases required hospitalization. While the case from California was able to recover from the illness and eventually leave the hospital, the outbreak victim in Florida died as a result of the infection caused by ingesting contaminated raw milk. ...
... Tests run by public health officials on samples of Miller’s Organic Farm raw milk collected in November 2015 generated results that confirmed the presence of Listeria bacteria in the product. In January, the FDA conducted testing on samples of raw chocolate milk produced by Miller’s Farm and again confirmed the presence of Listeria in the raw milk tested."
Positive Raw Milk Listeria Test Reveals Fatal 2012 Outbreak
"For years, Miller has refused to abide by basic food laws, even after the raw milk produced on his farm was suspected to have killed someone."
Conservatives milk story from Amish Farm tied to fatal listeria outbreak - Daily France News
"Although the two illnesses occurred in 2014, the source of these illnesses wasn’t known until January 29, 2016, when the U.S. Food and Drug Administration informed CDC that whole genome sequencing of Listeria bacteria from raw chocolate milk produced by Miller’s Organic Farm showed that it was closely related genetically to Listeria bacteria from the two ill people described above."
Multistate Outbreak of Listeriosis Linked to Raw Milk Produced by Miller’s Organic Farm in Pennsylvania | Listeria | CDC
And now, some info on Listeria:
"Listeriosis is a serious infection usually caused by eating food contaminated with the bacterium Listeria monocytogenes. An estimated 1,600 people get listeriosis each year, and about 260 die. The infection is most likely to sicken pregnant women and their newborns, adults aged 65 or older, and people with weakened immune systems."
Listeria (Listeriosis) | Listeria | CDC
"If the infection spreads to your nervous system, it’s more serious. This severe form, called listeriosis, is fatal for 20% of people who have it. This happens most often with the very young, the very old, and people with weakened immune systems. "
What Is Listeria?
Sorry but you don't get to sell products that poison and kill people.
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SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Most of the world's population are actually lactose intolerant.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And it begs the question why anyone who really wants to get the news would watch him, and yet he is the most popular on cable "news", undoubtedly because we have a large element in this society who want "confirmation bias", not objective news reporting.
Of the major tv news sources, Fox is the least reliably accurate followed by MSNBC, and PBS NewsHour is the most reliably accurate followed by CNN.
However, in my case I do watch all of them from time to time-- my masochistic tendency, I guess.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And if you read the Daily Beast article on it you will see that it was their meat slaughtering that was the final straw. They would not properly handle the meat after it was slaughtered. They were given options, including practices used by other Amish farmers. They refused.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
If you run a farm where your products injure and/or kill people and you refuse to do anything to change that, you probably shouldn't be running a farm.
This is the reason regulations exist.
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
@SkepticThinker There are a lot of things to wonder about when it comes to food. Like I said, the gas station across from my work is packed full of junk food. That doesn't seem healthy. Or I guess since they are allowed to sell all of it without warnings, maybe it is
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Well, if that junk food contained say, mercury or lead, you'd probably want there to be some sort of regulations in place to make sure that you aren't buying a gas station sandwich laced with lead paint, right? That's what is going on with here, with the Amish farm. They keep selling products that are poisoning people. Listeria isn't something to mess around with. Something like 1 in 5 people infected with it die. For pregnant women, it can cause miscarriage, stillbirth and/or newborn death.
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
It's not, but in some states, you can get it, and sure, they could put a warning on it. And then from there, those people should know what they are getting into. I don't drink raw milk, it's not legal here, but one thing I do like is kombucha. All kind of companies make it, and I like the taste of it. I was kind of wary of it when I first started drinking it, but it became something I like
As to lead, how much of it does the modern person get in their body, anyway? How much are farming is done right next to busy roads - does lead get into the food when it's like that, or not? I watched this bushcraft guy from austrailia say he would never eat plants too close to the road, for that reason
Keep in mind, we also live a society where many things seem pointlessly dangerous. How about those clover-leaf onramps. Or simply driving a motorcycle. Or mountain climbing - do a youtube search of alex honnold, he climbs a 3000 foot sheer cliff with no equipment. Some people swim near sharks, or choose to camp around grizzly bears. My factory job can be dangerous