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The Feminism Thread
- Thread starter Meow Mix
- Start date
I look in on this thread, & immediately there'sOkay, since this is nearly a daily topic anyway, let's do this while trying to keep things civil in a dedicated thread.
What are your complaints about feminism, and why?
Someone placate the mods with cookies or something, I'm sure they're on edge. We'll play nice.
thunder & lightning outside. Omen?
PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
I have few these days. Nothing I'm ready to bring up at the moment.
Okay, since this is nearly a daily topic anyway, let's do this while trying to keep things civil in a dedicated thread.
What are your complaints about feminism, and why?
Someone placate the mods with cookies or something, I'm sure they're on edge. We'll play nice.
Can it be cake?
I have no problem with feminism in itself. Sometimes I have problems with feminists. I know you are not of the variety I have trouble with, @Meow Mix , but some are rather disgusted with my being happy with being a homemaker.
I am a firm believer in minding one's own business and I tend to support others in whatever their endeavors are(unless its obviously detrimental, in which case I'll object). However, I like to be afforded the same luxury, and when I get people turning up their noses at my path, it kinda makes me want to pee on their shoes(I spend too much time with cats).
I’m in agreement with you there. I don’t think there’s anything anti-feminist about a choice to be a homemaker at all; but I know there are some out there that disagree. For what it’s worth, usually when this topic comes up on Reddit (r/feminism and the like), homemakers get overwhelming support when they ask.
I wonder if it depends where one is at, or where one participates in conversation....
I suspect another thing that gets to me(and not only feminism does this, almost all 'groups' do)is the blanket mindset. We are (fill in the blanks) and we believe (fill in the blanks). That's fine, but that might present itself in different ways for different people.
I think that's one reason I shy away from 'groups' in general. There's few groups out there I can say I subscribe to all the mainstream beliefs on. Its just complicated. Better just to say I'm George and leave it at that.
I hear ya. There are differences, I think it's useful to take on labels when enough boxes are ticked if one's going to be discussing that sort of stuff though just to save time. It's easier to say "I'm a blank. Oh you wonder about blank? Yeah some blanks believe that, but not me; I think they're not thinking that through right" than it is to start from scratch. Not knocking nixing labels or anything, just saying I understand why people take them on (as I do).
Yeah, I get that. I do take on a label occasionally, but I think pretty hard about it before I do. Much of that is what the average person will assume about me when I use that label. If some of those assumptions would make me uncomfortable, I leave it.
We Never Know
No Slack
Okay, since this is nearly a daily topic anyway, let's do this while trying to keep things civil in a dedicated thread.
What are your complaints about feminism, and why?
Someone placate the mods with cookies or something, I'm sure they're on edge. We'll play nice.
Just remember you asked. I don't want to hear any complaining. Here ya go...
Ok...I can give an example.
Some (or many) American feminists, when they watch Italian TV for the first time, they cannot but remark that this TV is filled with female nudity.
Which apparently objectifies women.
This woman, Emma Bonino is considered the feminist par excellence of the 20th century. She fought for women's rights at the workplace, abortion, divorce rights.
She underlines that the problem for us in Italy, is not that women show their naked bodies on TV (which they do deliberately) but that they have the chance to break the original roles imposed by patriarchal society.
I am afraid it's exactly because of the Vatican
Well...I would have said it myself too...I mean...the RCC is the emblem of patriarchal society so I guess yes, it is that society that wants women either to be home angels (wives, mothers) or "sex objects" on TV, or anywhere else (workplace, etc)
Some (or many) American feminists, when they watch Italian TV for the first time, they cannot but remark that this TV is filled with female nudity.
Which apparently objectifies women.
This woman, Emma Bonino is considered the feminist par excellence of the 20th century. She fought for women's rights at the workplace, abortion, divorce rights.
She underlines that the problem for us in Italy, is not that women show their naked bodies on TV (which they do deliberately) but that they have the chance to break the original roles imposed by patriarchal society.
I am afraid it's exactly because of the Vatican
Well...I would have said it myself too...I mean...the RCC is the emblem of patriarchal society so I guess yes, it is that society that wants women either to be home angels (wives, mothers) or "sex objects" on TV, or anywhere else (workplace, etc)
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Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I don't have really any issues with feminism itself. It's more specifically those who take it to the more dogmatic and rigid views that are more congruent and alike the rigid societal views that created the necessity for feminism in the first place.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Okay, since this is nearly a daily topic anyway, let's do this while trying to keep things civil in a dedicated thread.
What are your complaints about feminism, and why?
Someone placate the mods with cookies or something, I'm sure they're on edge. We'll play nice.
Some men don't accept woman as equal, some men think they are better, some men think they are in charge of woman and can tell them what to do.....
Some men do not realize that without the woman, man would never been born
Woman ain't the stupid ones
Ok...I can give an example.
Some (or many) American feminists, when they watch Italian TV for the first time, they cannot but remark that this TV is filled with female nudity.
Which apparently objectifies women.
This woman, Emma Bonino is considered the feminist par excellence of the 20th century. She fought for women's rights at the workplace, abortion, divorce rights.
She underlines that the problem for us in Italy, is not that women show their naked bodies on TV (which they do deliberately) but that they have the chance to break the original roles imposed by patriarchal society.
I am afraid it's exactly because of the Vatican
Well...I would have said it myself too...I mean...the RCC is the emblem of patriarchal society so I guess yes, it is that society that wants women either to be home angels (wives, mothers) or "sex objects" on TV, or anywhere else (workplace, etc)
Ubiquitous objectification is a problem, but I find this to be more problematic in the universal use of women's bodies to sell products (where the woman is essentially an accessory or an implied prize or accompaniment to the thing being sold) than I do with women taking on dramatic roles on television.
As most are aware by this point (though I was likely a bit more mum about it when I was here in my 20's), I paid for early undergrad by stripping; a fact that I'm not ashamed about. So how to circle this square about objectification?
I think first and foremost, one of the most feminist things a woman can do is whatever she wants to do that empowers her. Service and entertainment industries are, at their core, a form of objectification: your waitress (or waiter!) is objectified as a food and drink bringer, your bartender is objectified as a cocktail maker, the ballerina is objectified as a body on stage entertaining with a graceful dance, and so on. So it goes for actors and actresses that bare their bodies for a role, or an exotic dancer. Objectification isn't good or bad in a binary way, there's more nuance to it.
People with healthy mindsets understand that even when they objectify a little bit that they're still interacting with a person: in fact, one of the times I judge people most acutely is in how they treat people in the service or entertainment industries because I think it reveals a very important part of a person's character.
I know this probably isn't the most helpful thing in the world, but I don't think actors and actresses being nude on TV is intrinsically, overly objectifying depending on the context.
I'm reminded of some judge that was having to decide what pornography was for some landmark case that infamously said, "I don't know how to define pornography, but I know it when I see it." I feel the same way about objectification (rather, when something is "overly" objectifying, objectifying in some negative way): I don't know how to define it explicitly, but I know it when I see it. I think people will probably have objectification alarms tingle over different things, and I'm not sure what can be done about that.
We Never Know
No Slack
Some men don't accept woman as equal, some men think they are better, some men think they are in charge of woman and can tell them what to do.....
Some men do not realize that without the woman, man would never been born
Woman ain't the stupid ones
Women have always been suppressed. Still happens today.
-same job-less pay
-not given the job because of being female
-work and is still expected to clean, cook, do laundry, deal with the kids, etc.
-black male's were given the right to vote before women
-in some cases expected to give their mate sex even if she doesn't feel like it
-she can be sick and is still expected to clean, cook, do laundry, deal with the kids, etc.
-stay home while the man goes out
-etc.
Some men don't accept woman as equal, some men think they are better, some men think they are in charge of woman and can tell them what to do.....
Some men do not realize that without the woman, man would never been born
Woman ain't the stupid ones
Nor are men! I think the key thing here is that people can believe silly things as individuals, but blaming genders/sexes is a problem.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
And the one who is responsible for their misery is a man. So yes I support feminism
We Never Know
No Slack
Okay, since this is nearly a daily topic anyway, let's do this while trying to keep things civil in a dedicated thread.
What are your complaints about feminism, and why?
Someone placate the mods with cookies or something, I'm sure they're on edge. We'll play nice.
Its said behind every successful man is a woman....and behind her is another man checking out her butt
Yeah, just wrote a post (probably as you typed this) about the difficulties with objectification. For what it's worth, I don't immediately think your art sounds objectifying in an excessive or negative way. Objectification per se isn't bad, especially when we're talking about artistic aesthetic. It's when it leaks over to behavior that's bad.