The First Cause was not God.

[Runewolf1973]

There was a First Cause. That First Cause was not something supernatural or spiritual. It was not God. It was a naturally existing force or interaction. A Fundamental Force even more fundamental than gravity or electromagnetism. Someday science will find a way to unify the four Fundamental Forces into a single, all-encompassing force. This will be the origin of the universe, the First Cause, the First Interaction.

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force..." Max Plank

There is in fact something behind the existence of those Fundamental Forces. That "matrix of all matter" is not God, nor is it a conscious or intelligent mind. I believe it is another naturally existing Fundamental Force or Fundamental Interaction that science just hasn't figured out yet.

 

[Alt Thinker]

There was a First Cause. That First Cause was not something supernatural or spiritual. It was not God. It was a naturally existing force or interaction. A Fundamental Force even more fundamental than gravity or electromagnetism. Someday science will find a way to unify the four Fundamental Forces into a single, all-encompassing force. This will be the origin of the universe, the First Cause, the First Interaction.

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force..." Max Plank

There is in fact something behind the existence of those Fundamental Forces. That "matrix of all matter" is not God, nor is it a conscious or intelligent mind. I believe it is another naturally existing Fundamental Force or Fundamental Interaction that science just hasn't figured out yet.

Why does this Fundamental Force exist? Why does it have the exact form that it does?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Why does this Fundamental Force exist? Why does it have the exact form that it does?

I would say it does not have a form. Does gravity or electromagnetism have a form? It would amount to about the same. I see no logical alternative to the existence of such a force. This is basically what science would call a Theory of Everything. They hypothesize the existence of such a force, they simply haven't worked out the math or the physics of it yet.

 

[Willamena]

I would say it does not have a form. Does gravity or electromagnetism have a form?

Well, yeah... the form of "gravity" and "electromagnetism."

 

[Runewolf1973]

Well, yeah... the form of "gravity" and "electromagnetism."

Gravity has definite effects and I think we know it pretty well based on those effects. What does gravity itself look like? What is it's physical form?

It's possible that it does, but I can't personally say what form gravity has, only that it has an obvious effect. I feel there must also be a natural cause to that effect as well.


---

 

[columbus]

There was a First Cause. That First Cause was not something supernatural or spiritual. It was not God. It was a naturally existing force or interaction. A Fundamental Force even more fundamental than gravity or electromagnetism. Someday science will find a way to unify the four Fundamental Forces into a single, all-encompassing force. This will be the origin of the universe, the First Cause, the First Interaction.

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force..." Max Plank

There is in fact something behind the existence of those Fundamental Forces. That "matrix of all matter" is not God, nor is it a conscious or intelligent mind. I believe it is another naturally existing Fundamental Force or Fundamental Interaction that science just hasn't figured out yet.

Rename "first cause" God and you've got deism. But don't tell me it isn't supernatural or spiritual when all you really know is that you don't know much of anything about the subject.

We humans know virtually nothing about why there is something instead of nothing. I'm quite certain that the reason is something far beyond anything we can even imagine at this point.

Pretending we know about this is usually called religion.

Tom

 

[Brinne]

What's to say this force itself is not divine? Something does not require a physical form for it to be divine. What's to say this force itself isn't worthy of worship?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Rename "first cause" God and you've got deism. But don't tell me it isn't supernatural or spiritual when all you really know is that you don't know much of anything about the subject.

We humans know virtually nothing about why there is something instead of nothing. I'm quite certain that the reason is something far beyond anything we can even imagine at this point.

Pretending we know about this is usually called religion.

Tom

I agree. It is perhaps one of those "unknowable" things. We are free to speculate though. I speculate it is something natural however.

 

[Runewolf1973]

What's to say this force itself is not divine? Something does not require a physical form for it to be divine. What's to say this force itself isn't worthy of worship?

I don't personally believe in divinities but I agree, nature is worthy of our praise and utmost respect. We should treat nature as if it were our God I think.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I agree with Napoleon on this one, lol...

 

[Runewolf1973]

This single quote has always meant a lot to me...

"I am the light that shines over all things, I am everything. From me all came forth and to me all return. Split a piece of wood and I am there. Lift a stone and you will find me there." TGOT

What religious script speaks better of those fundamental forces than this?

 

[Thief]

I would say it does not have a form. Does gravity or electromagnetism have a form? It would amount to about the same. I see no logical alternative to the existence of such a force. This is basically what science would call a Theory of Everything. They hypothesize the existence of such a force, they simply haven't worked out the math or the physics of it yet.

Energy can have 'form'....as in character.

Gravity is not confused with the other forces.

And I'm not buying the notion that form of substance can be accidental.
Force without effect on substance?....seems a contradiction in terms.
Substance into motion without Something to give it direction?

The void would still be void if not for God.

 

[Thief]

This single quote has always meant a lot to me...

"I am the light that shines over all things, I am everything. From me all came forth and to me all return. Split a piece of wood and I am there. Lift a stone and you will find me there." TGOT


What religious script speaks better of those fundamental forces than this?

A force that refers to itself as .....'I'.....?!!!!!

 

[Runewolf1973]

A force that refers to itself as .....'I'.....?!!!!!

I personally don't pay much attention to that "I". To me it is just something to make it sound nicer. It is like a word fluidizer.

 

[Thief]

I personally don't pay much attention to that "I". To me it is just something to make it sound nicer. It is like a word fluidizer.

Such a de-personalizing God.....calling 'it' a 'force'...

 

[Willamena]

There was a First Cause. That First Cause was not something supernatural or spiritual. It was not God. It was a naturally existing force or interaction. A Fundamental Force even more fundamental than gravity or electromagnetism. Someday science will find a way to unify the four Fundamental Forces into a single, all-encompassing force. This will be the origin of the universe, the First Cause, the First Interaction.

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force..." Max Plank

There is in fact something behind the existence of those Fundamental Forces. That "matrix of all matter" is not God, nor is it a conscious or intelligent mind. I believe it is another naturally existing Fundamental Force or Fundamental Interaction that science just hasn't figured out yet.

Why does the naturally existing force or interaction have to identified with the theists' "First Cause"?

 

[Willamena]

Gravity has definite effects and I think we know it pretty well based on those effects. What does gravity itself look like? What is it's physical form?

Any physical form is secondary to its form. Its form is whatever "gravity" means when you use the word in a sentence.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Why does the naturally existing force or interaction have to identified with the theists' "First Cause"?

Why not?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Any physical form is secondary to its form. Its form is whatever "gravity" means when you use the word in a sentence.

Like I said, it would be probably similar to the other fundamental forces in nature, only more far-ranging and all-encompassing. A unification of gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear forces into a single force or interaction. General Relativity unifies some things. Quantum Theory unifies some other things. This would unify everything.

 

[columbus]

This single quote has always meant a lot to me...

"I am the light that shines over all things, I am everything. From me all came forth and to me all return. Split a piece of wood and I am there. Lift a stone and you will find me there." TGOT

What religious script speaks better of those fundamental forces than this?

I like this quote myself. Gives me some faith in Jesus. But it is not from God.

It is Thomas quoting Jesus saying what He thinks God would say, if God talked.

Tom