The First Cause was not God.

[Saint Frankenstein]

Lol, care to be a bit more specific?

I don't recall saying anything that's funny.

Specific, how?

 

[Sonofason]

I don't recall saying anything that's funny.

Specific, how?

Well, you said, "My Gods manifest Themselves through the various facets of life, Nature and the Cosmos."

I would like to hear some of the specific manifestations of your gods. Explain how they manifest themselves through the various facets of life. Perhaps, list the facets of life you are referring to. To say nature and the cosmos is only two things. Clearly you're referring to more than two gods, so I'm asking for a list of manifestations of your gods? What are their names? Which god of yours hates another god? Which god of yours hates humanity? Where do your gods come from? Who created them? Was there a first god? What was his name? Where did he come from? You know, specifics.

specific - clearly and exactly presented or stated
Specific - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

 

[Ouroboros]

Why do people have to use words like that?

The words "like that"? Like that! Like that! Like that! Mwuahahahaha!!!

 

[Sonofason]

The words "like that"? Like that! Like that! Like that! Mwuahahahaha!!!

Oh no, How could you say "that"?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, you said, "My Gods manifest Themselves through the various facets of life, Nature and the Cosmos."

I would like to hear some of the specific manifestations of your gods. Explain how they manifest themselves through the various facets of life. Perhaps, list the facets of life you are referring to. To say nature and the cosmos is only two things. Clearly you're referring to more than two gods, so I'm asking for a list of manifestations of your gods? What are their names? Which god of yours hates another god? Which god of yours hates humanity? Where do your gods come from? Who created them? Was there a first god? What was his name? Where did he come from? You know, specifics.

specific - clearly and exactly presented or stated
Specific - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I'm a Germanic Heathen. I primarily worship the Gods of the pre-Christian Germanic peoples. I'm not going to explain the entirety of the religion to you. Basically, it's a tribal religion, the indigenous religion of the Germanic peoples. It is polytheistic, animistic and shamanic. A lot of it involves Nature-worship and much of the worship takes place outside, around trees and such. We also worship the Spirits of the Land and the Ancestors. We give Them offerings in order to establish a friendly relationship with them.

It's not so much that certain Gods "hate" humans, as it is that Their sphere of influence isn't something that we would find friendly to us. For example, the Giants are the primal cosmic powers which are typically violent and destructive, such as earthquakes, floods and destructive astronomical occurrences. These things are not "bad" or "evil" in of themselves - they're simply necessary parts of existence - but they are threatening to us. Some - or most- of the Gods are in opposition to the Giants and stave off their destructive actions, thereby maintaining a balance and allowing the Universe to exist and function in a way that is conducive for the survival of life. Eventually the Gods will "lose" and the Universe will come to an end. This is symbolized in the story of Ragnarok. But the cycle will simply begin again and a new Universe will be born from the ashes of the old. Like most Indo-European peoples, the Norse had a cyclic view of existence, which led them to develop their ideas on Destiny.

Germanic paganism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Germanic neopaganism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Heathen FAQ
Norse Mythology for Smart People - The Ultimate Online Resource for Norse Mythology and Religion

 

[Sonofason]

I'm a Germanic Heathen. I primarily worship the Gods of the pre-Christian Germanic peoples. I'm not going to explain the entirety of the religion to you. Basically, it's a tribal religion, the indigenous religion of the Germanic peoples. It is polytheistic, animistic and shamanic. A lot of it involves Nature-worship and much of the worship takes place outside, around trees and such. We also worship the Spirits of the Land and the Ancestors. We give Them offerings in order to establish a friendly relationship with them.

It's not so much that certain Gods "hate" humans, as it is that Their sphere of influence isn't something that we would find friendly to us. For example, the Giants are the primal cosmic powers which are typically violent and destructive, such as earthquakes, floods and destructive astronomical occurrences. These things are not "bad" or "evil" in of themselves - they're simply necessary parts of existence - but they are threatening to us. Some - or most- of the Gods are in opposition to the Giants and stave off their destructive actions, thereby maintaining a balance and allowing the Universe to exist and function in a way that is conducive for the survival of life. Eventually the Gods will "lose" and the Universe will come to an end. This is symbolized in the story of Ragnarok. But the cycle will simply begin again and a new Universe will be born from the ashes of the old. Like most Indo-European peoples, the Norse had a cyclic view of existence, which led them to develop their ideas on Destiny.

Germanic paganism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Germanic neopaganism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Heathen FAQ
Norse Mythology for Smart People - The Ultimate Online Resource for Norse Mythology and Religion

Okay, well thanks for the response. You are certainly entitled to your beliefs.

 

[Robert.Evans]

The words "like that"? Like that! Like that! Like that! Mwuahahahaha!!!

I knew it was a risk posting that

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Okay, well thanks for the response. You are certainly entitled to your beliefs.

Also, there's no creator deity like in the Abrahamic religions. All the phases of the Cosmos - birth, stability and death - are brought about by natural processes through the collective actions of the Gods. There is no transcendent creator or ex nihilo in that worldview.

 

[Sonofason]

Well, I see no reason to believe any of that, but it is apparent that you want me to believe that you do. So, I do.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, I see no reason to believe any of that, but it is apparent that you want me to believe that you do. So, I do.

I don't care if you believe it or not. We don't seek converts. Of course you're not going to believe that because your worldview is completely different from mine. We have almost nothing in common in our beliefs.

 

[Sonofason]

Also, there's no creator deity like in the Abrahamic religions. All the phases of the Cosmos - birth, stability and death - are brought about by natural processes through the collective actions of the Gods. There is no transcendent creator or ex nihilo in that worldview.

Oh, for what it's worth, I thought I should let you know, that I am not averse to the concept of animism. I believe that spirit exists in all that is. But that of course does not detract from my belief in one God, the Creator.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Oh, for what it's worth, I thought I should let you know, that I am not averse to the concept of animism. I believe that spirit exists in all that is. But that of course does not detract from my belief in one God, the Creator.

Well, I know that there are forms of Christian animism.

 

[Sonofason]

Well, I know that there are forms of Christian animism.

Well, of course they exist, even if only because I exist.

 

[Sonofason]

I don't care if you believe it or not. We don't seek converts. Of course you're not going to believe that because your worldview is completely different from mine. We have almost nothing in common in our beliefs.

I bet we have more in common than you think. We may never know.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Luck is not an answer.. more a cop out I think. It stops people seeing what is really going on. All things you speak of are processes... where do they come from? Luck again?!?

I think you calling it "luck" is your cop out from facing the issue. You have given your opinion on the matter but what is the substance behind your opinion? What makes you believe that? Not just spiritual revaluations that only matter on a personal level to you but what facts and defensible positions do you have support that allow you to believe god as the only logical answer. If you cling to god as an illogical answer and also cling to the irrational proposition that everything else is "pure luck" then by all means but it isn't a debate.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I think you calling it "luck" is your cop out from facing the issue. You have given your opinion on the matter but what is the substance behind your opinion? What makes you believe that? Not just spiritual revaluations that only matter on a personal level to you but what facts and defensible positions do you have support that allow you to believe god as the only logical answer. If you cling to god as an illogical answer and also cling to the irrational proposition that everything else is "pure luck" then by all means but it isn't a debate.

Somewhere you seem to be missing the mark I feel. Tell me then what is inbetween intelligence and luck? Is it processes or similar? If so, how do they come about? luck? intelligence? If not, how? Chaos theory? Is that not luck?
Where do all the things that are accepted so readily come from? That is all I ask. There is no answer forecoming as of yet. Some have said that ultimately it is by accident, and that appears to be a sufficient answer to them. If that is the case, then everything comes about by luck, because ultimately that is where the processes derive from. Do you really accept that as an answer?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Somewhere you seem to be missing the mark I feel. Tell me then what is inbetween intelligence and luck? Is it processes or similar? If so, how do they come about? luck? intelligence? If not, how? Chaos theory? Is that not luck?
Where do all the things that are accepted so readily come from? That is all I ask. There is no answer forecoming as of yet. Some have said that ultimately it is by accident, and that appears to be a sufficient answer to them. If that is the case, then everything comes about by luck, because ultimately that is where the processes derive from. Do you really accept that as an answer?

Chaos theory is a math theory. It has nothing to do with what you were insinuating. Its about statistics in unpredictable systems.

If I drop a pen and it hits the floor. Is that due to luck or intelligence? Was it just luck that it flew out of my hand in a predictable manor or did the pen somehow "know" what to do? Or is it a third option? That gravity pulled it down.

Now if you want to talk about the source of every law then you will have to accept that we simply don't know. You personally feel only a god could have done it. I am not convinced. If whatever it that is at the source of it is what you call god then by all means do that. However that significantly changes the definition of god for most people.